AHL team to be announced in Belleville

[MiamiHockey]

It is pretty sad that so many cities have had hockey ripped from them simply because of a loophole/design flaw in the NHL's collective bargaining agreement. It seems like it would have been easier to amend/clarify that clause than to move almost a dozen teams around in the course of three years.

That's one factor.

A second, critical factor is that the salary cap has magnified the importance of player development. Teams can no longer buy their way out of poor drafting/development. They need a steady stream of young, inexpensive players who can step in either during the season, or in the offseason when more expensive veterans move out.

Teams are taking greater interest in developing their own players and their coaching staff. That process is much easier to manage when the AHL franchise is located close to the NHL franchise. In the case of teams such as the Leafs, Sharks (and, soon, Habs) they can use the same practice facility. It's much easier for the NHL team to monitor prospects, for the specialist coaches to work with both teams (e.g., goaltending coach, skating coach), and for the coaching staffs to work closely together.

Here's some comments on that topic ... note what Rob Blake says:

https://frozenroyalty.net/2016/06/18/ontario-first-season-in-ahl-part-2/

Simply put, it's a better model to have the AHL franchise within a short drive of the NHL franchise. Salary cap issues are but one part of that model.

 

[royals119]

It is pretty sad that so many cities have had hockey ripped from them simply because of a loophole/design flaw in the NHL's collective bargaining agreement. It seems like it would have been easier to amend/clarify that clause than to move almost a dozen teams around in the course of three years.

The players would fight pretty hard against that change. They want to get paid their NHL salary for the travel time. Moving AHL teams around didn't require a lockout.

 

[Nightsquad]

What on earth does any of that have to do with development? Albany has much more to offer than Utica. Building is better, travel is easier. The damage done by Lou's mismanagement will take time to heal. Especially when there's DI hockey to watch. The hockey fans in Albany might just expect more for their time and money. But if you want to play in a tin can with falsely reported sellouts in an inconveniently located city, Utica is your place.

I wouldn't even sweat Albany losing a team to Binghamton or Utica. Both have good fan bases sure and I respect their passion but the AHL is changed greatly. Teams are looking for modern facilties, markets which are capable of growth. Albany is slated for major arena renovations, a brand new attached convention center is being built attached to the arena, and the Albany area is probably the only upstate region actually attracting growth. Albany's arena has just recently signed a new three year deal with the Devil (lol pun intended) and Albany's arena GM is a bang up General Manager plus has the backing of Albany County to keep a team in Albany. Albany's arena does something Utica's and Binghamton's arena doesn't do, that's make huge profits from other events such as major concerts lol. Utica and Binghamton are lucky their building's stay open because they offer nothing other then hockey. Hockey in Utica and Binghamton is the only thing going for those cities, they are dying cities but I respect their level of pride for their teams. At the end of the day Albany offers better facilties, better lease agreements due to their arena being actually able to make a profit, a transportation and location advantage second to none (Utica doesn't even have an airport, they use Albany), and a metro area which offers so much more. I am quite sure if the new Devils organization build upon last year's success Albany had then Albany's future will be get better. They probably won't draw the 5000 or 6000 average they had for the River Rats but atleast they are capable of doing better, Utica or Binghamton can't do any better lol and eventually will be priced out of the AHL or fall victim to logistics. I think the ECHL will do much better in Glen's Falls NY this year as well and if fans in Utica or Binghampton want to shun the ECHL should that be their only option of pro hockey then that will be their downfall through blind arrogance. Albany all summer has been hosting wrestling, concerts, and even Donald Trump came to Albany and filled the place lol. Binghamton's and Utica's arenas pretty much go dark once their seasons come to an end, not in Albany where things are happening all year long.

http://news10.com/2016/04/04/albany-devils-to-stay-at-tu-center-through-2018-2019-season/

 

[go comets]

I wouldn't even sweat Albany losing a team to Binghamton or Utica. Both have good fan bases sure and I respect their passion but the AHL is changed greatly. Teams are looking for modern facilties, markets which are capable of growth. Albany is slated for major arena renovations, a brand new attached convention center is being built attached to the arena, and the Albany area is probably the only upstate region actually attracting growth. Albany's arena has just recently signed a new three year deal with the Devil (lol pun intended) and Albany's arena GM is a bang up General Manager plus has the backing of Albany County to keep a team in Albany. Albany's arena does something Utica's and Binghamton's arena doesn't do, that's make huge profits from other events such as major concerts lol. Utica and Binghamton are lucky their building's stay open because they offer nothing other then hockey. Hockey in Utica and Binghamton is the only thing going for those cities, they are dying cities but I respect their level of pride for their teams. At the end of the day Albany offers better facilties, better lease agreements due to their arena being actually able to make a profit, a transportation and location advantage second to none (Utica doesn't even have an airport, they use Albany), and a metro area which offers so much more. I am quite sure if the new Devils organization build upon last year's success Albany had then Albany's future will be get better. They probably won't draw the 5000 or 6000 average they had for the River Rats but atleast they are capable of doing better, Utica or Binghamton can't do any better lol and eventually will be priced out of the AHL or fall victim to logistics. I think the ECHL will do much better in Glen's Falls NY this year as well and if fans in Utica or Binghampton want to shun the ECHL should that be their only option of pro hockey then that will be their downfall through blind arrogance. Albany all summer has been hosting wrestling, concerts, and even Donald Trump came to Albany and filled the place lol. Binghamton's and Utica's arenas pretty much go dark once their seasons come to an end, not in Albany where things are happening all year long.

http://news10.com/2016/04/04/albany-devils-to-stay-at-tu-center-through-2018-2019-season/

Uticas building is not losing money. It is managed by Mohawk valley gardens, which pays the aud for the right to manage it. Building is busy non stop from October to April.. they can hardly find times to do matinence and repairs to the boards and glass so they usually have to do those things overnight. Only on comet game days is the ice not used non stop. The Airport is in Rome, the old Griffis air force base....

 

[mmazz22]

NIghtsquad I have always respected your posts. But you have some inaccuracies on this last one. I am on the board at the Binghamton Arena. The financial state of the bc arena is fine. Actually Binghamton and Utica are actually on the upswing as well.
The cost of doing biz here is nothing. The lease the current team has and that the new team will have is a very sweet deal, I doubt there is a better lease in the league. I would like to think when the dust settles that Utica bing and Albany all have teams.
But don't discount Utica or Binghamton as players , your city might be larger but it certainly does not act it when it comes to paid attendance. Please don't bash our cities as we have always supported and defended Albany in the constant bashing it gets.

 

[Nightsquad]

NIghtsquad I have always respected your posts. But you have some inaccuracies on this last one. I am on the board at the Binghamton Arena. The financial state of the bc arena is fine. Actually Binghamton and Utica are actually on the upswing as well.
The cost of doing biz here is nothing. The lease the current team has and that the new team will have is a very sweet deal, I doubt there is a better lease in the league. I would like to think when the dust settles that Utica bing and Albany all have teams.
But don't discount Utica or Binghamton as players , your city might be larger but it certainly does not act it when it comes to paid attendance. Please don't bash our cities as we have always supported and defended Albany in the constant bashing it gets.

I don't live in Albany, from the Philadelphia metropolitan area. Have relatives up that way in the Albany area. AHL hockey in Albany has not done well as it could or should yes but Albany is an extremely successful concert and NCAA sports market for an area its size. The horse racing market in nearby Saratoga Springs is top notch. Our market research indicates the Albany Metropolitan area has everything financial in place to support AHL sustainability however the poor attendance is clearly cited as individual apathy and perception. Nobody was bashing Binghamton but what I perceive is routine bashing of Albany. The few fans from Albany who post here are often verbally abused by folks from other regions regions who really have no business in doing so. The fans who show up in markets like Albany, Worcester, Springfield, and other smaller drawing markets are the civic heroes, likewise should not be subjected to harassment of others. From what I heard the Utica fans who travelled to Albany during the Calder Cup playoffs were less then friendly the first two games having thought Utica was going to roll the Devils. Any inaccuracies should be pointed to the statement the Devils are leaving Albany, especially just before they haven't even dropped the puck in a three year deal just signed with Albany, that is inaccuracy at its very core.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I don't live in Albany, from the Philadelphia metropolitan area. Have relatives up that way in the Albany area. AHL hockey in Albany has not done well as it could or should yes but Albany is an extremely successful concert and NCAA sports market for an area its size. The horse racing market in nearby Saratoga Springs is top notch. Our market research indicates the Albany Metropolitan area has everything financial in place to support AHL sustainability however the poor attendance is clearly cited as individual apathy and perception. Nobody was bashing Binghamton but what I perceive is routine bashing of Albany. The few fans from Albany who post here are often verbally abused by folks from other regions regions who really have no business in doing so. The fans who show up in markets like Albany, Worcester, Springfield, and other smaller drawing markets are the civic heroes, likewise should not be subjected to harassment of others. From what I heard the Utica fans who travelled to Albany during the Calder Cup playoffs were less then friendly the first two games having thought Utica was going to roll the Devils. Any inaccuracies should be pointed to the statement the Devils are leaving Albany, especially just before they haven't even dropped the puck in a three year deal just signed with Albany, that is inaccuracy at its very core.

Everything except the fan support.

 

[zetajerk]

I don't live in Albany, from the Philadelphia metropolitan area. Have relatives up that way in the Albany area. AHL hockey in Albany has not done well as it could or should yes but Albany is an extremely successful concert and NCAA sports market for an area its size. The horse racing market in nearby Saratoga Springs is top notch. Our market research indicates the Albany Metropolitan area has everything financial in place to support AHL sustainability however the poor attendance is clearly cited as individual apathy and perception. Nobody was bashing Binghamton but what I perceive is routine bashing of Albany. The few fans from Albany who post here are often verbally abused by folks from other regions regions who really have no business in doing so. The fans who show up in markets like Albany, Worcester, Springfield, and other smaller drawing markets are the civic heroes, likewise should not be subjected to harassment of others. From what I heard the Utica fans who travelled to Albany during the Calder Cup playoffs were less then friendly the first two games having thought Utica was going to roll the Devils. Any inaccuracies should be pointed to the statement the Devils are leaving Albany, especially just before they haven't even dropped the puck in a three year deal just signed with Albany, that is inaccuracy at its very core.

This. I went to games in ADK when the Comets visited and the fans that came with them were just unpleasant. I got a number of lectures on how "you're supposed to support your team if you want to keep it." I got confronted by obnoxious drunks about how GF sucks. I had no desire to go to a game in Albany when they visited once they were in the same division.

Everything except the fan support.

Why the hostility towards Albany? Springfield, Portland, and Worschester didn't do much better at the gate, yet the Northeastern-AHL faithful seemed upset when they relocated.

I really don't know where the Devils could move (besides Newark) that would suit their purposes better than Albany.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

This. I went to games in ADK when the Comets visited and the fans that came with them were just unpleasant. I got a number of lectures on how "you're supposed to support your team if you want to keep it." I got confronted by obnoxious drunks about how GF sucks. I had no desire to go to a game in Albany when they visited once they were in the same division.



Why the hostility towards Albany? Springfield, Portland, and Worschester didn't do much better at the gate, yet the Northeastern-AHL faithful seemed upset when they relocated.

I really don't know where the Devils could move (besides Newark) that would suit their purposes better than Albany.

No hostility towards Albany at all. Their attendance though has always been at or near the bottom since 2001-2002 season. Just a fact. If you look at my posts over time i have always questioned why there were teams in those location considering the crap attendance.

And you hit the nail on the head - Northeastern AHL Faithful. Faithful isn't filling the seats. Just the facts.

 

[zetajerk]

No hostility towards Albany at all. Their attendance though has always been at or near the bottom since 2001-2002 season. Just a fact. If you look at my posts over time i have always questioned why there were teams in those location considering the crap attendance.

And you hit the nail on the head - Northeastern AHL Faithful. Faithful isn't filling the seats. Just the facts.

And a cluster of other teams are often right there with them. It begs the question: where do they go? Utica, the honeymoon capital of the AHL? Give them some missed postseasons and if they keep filling a 3800 seat building, then they can talk down to other fans.

I don't know where NJ would rather have their affiliate besides Prudential Center. Albany offers more than Bingo and Utica. It doesn't make sense to leave a place with all the amenities and go to Utica or Binghamton, "sellouts" or not.

 

[JungleJON]

There might be some rumblings in Rochester. The parent Buffalo Sabers want more control of what is going on (arena) AND those in Rochester say "put up some money" to go with your words. They are not going to play an NHL game at the Blue Cross Arena this year as they said it is not "up to standards". The game is now being played at Penn State's (Pegula) Arena in St. College, PA (which Pegula gave the money to build).
Could he use this as a a ploy to the city of Rochester - give me what I want or I will move the team to Central PA.
He has the money and St. College has an airport, so getting the players there would not be a problem. Would make and interesting combo in PA - L. Valley, WB-S, Hershey and St. College.

Just a thought.

 

[go comets]

I don't live in Albany, from the Philadelphia metropolitan area. Have relatives up that way in the Albany area. AHL hockey in Albany has not done well as it could or should yes but Albany is an extremely successful concert and NCAA sports market for an area its size. The horse racing market in nearby Saratoga Springs is top notch. Our market research indicates the Albany Metropolitan area has everything financial in place to support AHL sustainability however the poor attendance is clearly cited as individual apathy and perception. Nobody was bashing Binghamton but what I perceive is routine bashing of Albany. The few fans from Albany who post here are often verbally abused by folks from other regions regions who really have no business in doing so. The fans who show up in markets like Albany, Worcester, Springfield, and other smaller drawing markets are the civic heroes, likewise should not be subjected to harassment of others. From what I heard the Utica fans who travelled to Albany during the Calder Cup playoffs were less then friendly the first two games having thought Utica was going to roll the Devils. Any inaccuracies should be pointed to the statement the Devils are leaving Albany, especially just before they haven't even dropped the puck in a three year deal just signed with Albany, that is inaccuracy at its very core.

I can guarantee you, no comet fan was expecting the comets to win the series... the team was decimated by injuries and still had 4-5 echl players in the lineup..... as for the fans that showed up.. that is exactly why I don't do bus trips..... there are some really stupid people out there......

 

[go comets]

And a cluster of other teams are often right there with them. It begs the question: where do they go? Utica, the honeymoon capital of the AHL? Give them some missed postseasons and if they keep filling a 3800 seat building, then they can talk down to other fans.

I don't know where NJ would rather have their affiliate besides Prudential Center. Albany offers more than Bingo and Utica. It doesn't make sense to leave a place with all the amenities and go to Utica or Binghamton, "sellouts" or not.

I think NJ putting their ahl club in the Prudential center would hurt the big clubs attendance. It's not like they fill the building on a normal basis. [mod]

 

[go comets]

Everything except the fan support.

That has always been the puzzle in Albany... Devils didn't promote, losing team on the ice, media pretty much ignores the team... to me this is a management and promotions problem. Done correctly this city should draw... other complaints are the size and location of the building.. just no atmosphere.... it's just perplexing why it's not working.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

The AHL is expanding outside of the American boarder. So the AHL officials should change the name from the American Hockey league (AHL) to the American & Canadian Hockey league ACHL.

Also I was wondering how the fans in Canada feel about having teams from the American Hockey league in Canada. And are they encroaching on the junior teams from the CHL (OHL, QMJHL and WHL).

 

[go comets]

To be more correct, it is not the AHL that is putting teams in Canada, but instead it is the NHL teams putting their AHL club closer to them. I would think that if I was a fan of said team, I would be happy to have a cheaper and more affordable option than watching the big club.

 

[Disengage]

The AHL is expanding outside of the American boarder. So the AHL officials should change the name from the American Hockey league (AHL) to the American & Canadian Hockey league ACHL.

Also I was wondering how the fans in Canada feel about having teams from the American Hockey league in Canada. And are they encroaching on the junior teams from the CHL (OHL, QMJHL and WHL).

Canada is part of America.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Belleville?

Can't believe Belleville Ontario is good choice for an AHL team. Doesn't have the population to draw consistently. If Ottawa or Toronto was the parent team, yea maybe some support, but not for the Devils.

Wish Belleville all the best though.

 

[offkilter]

Canada is part of America.

Not only that, but they've had teams in Canada continiously for nearly 50 plus years as the AHL. At one time they had as many as 6 different teams north of the border. Didn't need a name change then, and don't need one now.

 

[BSensFan72]

Can't believe Belleville Ontario is good choice for an AHL team. Doesn't have the population to draw consistently. If Ottawa or Toronto was the parent team, yea maybe some support, but not for the Devils.

Wish Belleville all the best though.

Ottawa will be the parent team

 

[210]

Worschester

Do you really think that spelling is even close?

 

[myth]

Hearing deal is done, contracts are signed. I know that all minor hockey and other ice time schedule for the yardmen for the fall have been cancelled. This will allow for construction to start this fall. There was supposed to be an announcement today but that is being delayed due to the gas line hit in downtown Belleville. Team will be the Belleville Bulls, using the logos from OHL team, Gord Simmons still owned those.

 

[MiamiHockey]

Can't believe Belleville Ontario is good choice for an AHL team. Doesn't have the population to draw consistently. If Ottawa or Toronto was the parent team, yea maybe some support, but not for the Devils.

Wish Belleville all the best though.

You've clearly never been to Belleville.

The population of the city itself may seem small, but it's a regional hub. Napanee, Trenton, and Prince Edward County are all within a 30-minute drive. That area places the population well north of 150,000 within a 30-minute drive.

Importantly, Belleville is in the Senators' TV region, so the population around Belleville has grown up watching / following the Sens. This will be a successful franchise.

 

[Ralph Slate]

I'm not yet convinced of the assertion that the AHL will succeed in Canada provided that it is within the fan area of the dominant NHL team. There are too many exceptions for me to take that on faith.

Although they do better now, why did the Toronto Marlies draw less than 5,000 (and as low as 3,728) their first six years in existence? Toronto is the largest city in Canada but they still can't draw better than San Diego?

Why did the Sherbrooke Canadiens fail in that market? Metro population of 210,000, farm team of the Canadiens, but they averaged 2,164 their sophomore season despite winning the Calder Cup the year before!

Why did the Newmarket Saints average less than 2,200 for each of their five AHL seasons when they were the Maple Leafs farm team and were within the GTA? And why did they draw even less (fewer fans than PIMs in 1985-86 - 1,450 vs 1,988) when they were in St. Catharine's, outside of the GTA but with a metro population of almost 400,000?

Going back to the early 70s, why did the Montreal Voyageurs draw just 1,982 fans on average their second (and final) season playing in the Forum?

With a metro population of 150,000, and a record of weak support for OHL hockey, and a general lack of AHL support in Canada, I don't see how anyone can claim that a Belleville AHL franchise is going to be an automatic success.

 

[jason2020]

Ralph State

Take Toronto and Montreal out of both have had issues with supporting sports outside of the Nhl now look at Quebec City avg 12,000 a game for QMJHL.