Podcast (Audio) After the Whistle

[TheMistyStranger]

I used to dislike them until I really gave them a chance and listened to full episodes. Rivet cracks me up with how passionate he is, and how good of a broadcaster he is. You'll find yourself disagreeing with them a lot, but the fact that they have such a small amount of conviction in their stances makes it all very lighthearted.

I find them at least mildly entertaining at their worst, except when they have JR on. **** that guy. Completely unlistenable.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Both are rumors. We really don’t know where it started or where it is right now.

Absolutely right. But 4x11m seems out of whack - not just with what guys on his own team signed for, but what his peers (Matthews aside) signed for.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Absolutely right. But 4x11m seems out of whack - not just with what guys on his own team signed for, but what his peers (Matthews aside) signed for.

Also out of whack compared to all of the other rumors about this deal.

 

[joshjull]

Absolutely right. But 4x11m seems out of whack - not just with what guys on his own team signed for, but what his peers (Matthews aside) signed for.

The NHL’s revenue took a hit due to the pandemic and it threw off the 50/50 revenue split. Thats led to a relatively flat salary cap for the last 5 seasons (that includes this one): 81.5mil, 81.5mil, 81.5mil, 82.5mil and 83.5mil. Once the players paid back their portion through escrow it would start climbing. I believe they’ll have paid it off this season.

Estimates are the cap will start going up around 5% of so each of the next two seasons. Capfriendly has NHL upper cap limit estimates for those two seasons at 87.5mil and 92mil respectively.

Most of Dahlin’s defensive peers signed their deals in the summer of 2021. Which was in the thick of the flat cap + revenue/escrow situation. Dahlin is looking at a very different and much healthier NHL economic landscape.

I don‘t know what this will mean specifically for Dahlin. But I think we’re seeing the natural upward push for player AAVs that was slowed considerably by the economic impact of the pandemic. It’s worth remembering Doughty signed a 11mil AAV deal 5 years ago and Karlsson at 11.5mil 4 years ago. I‘m pretty sure the top young dmen who signed in 2021 offseason would be in that general neighborhood had there not been a pandemic.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

The NHL’s revenue took a hit due to the pandemic and it threw off the 50/50 revenue split. Thats led to a relatively flat salary cap for the last 5 seasons (that includes this one): 81.5mil, 81.5mil, 81.5mil, 82.5mil and 83.5mil. Once the players paid back their portion through escrow it would start climbing. I believe they’ll have paid it off this season.

Estimates are the cap will start going up around 5% of so each of the next two seasons. Capfriendly has NHL upper cap limit estimates for those two seasons at 87.5mil and 92mil respectively.

Most of Dahlin’s defensive peers signed their deals in the summer of 2021. Which was in the thick of the flat cap + revenue/escrow situation. Dahlin is looking at a very different and much healthier NHL economic landscape.

I don‘t know what this will mean specifically for Dahlin. But I think we’re seeing the natural upward push for player AAVs that was slowed considerably by the economic impact of the pandemic. It’s worth remembering Doughty signed a 11mil AAV deal 5 years ago and Karlsson at 11.5mil 4 years ago. I‘m pretty sure the top young dmen who signed in 2021 offseason would be in that general neighborhood had there not been a pandemic.

I understand everything you've mentioned here. But i still don't see how such a deal for Dahlin makes sense when it's out of whack with literally every other player in the league except Matthews.

If it does end up playing out like this - then Toronto/Matthews are 100% to blame for resetting the market. And I'll (still) be angry at Adams for i) not signing Dahlin for max term coming off his ELC ii) not ensuring a long term deal was done before Matthews got his extension.

I don't want to turn this into a Dahlin thread - but the following is a list of long term, big money signings made in the last year or so. You can't tell me that everyone concerned wasn't aware of all the points you brought up above - yet all these deals still got done:

Sanderson 8 x 8 (post Matthews)
Hagel 6.5 x 8
Terry 7 x 7
Aho 9.8 x 8
Sorokin 8.3 x 8
Meier 8 x 8
Dubois 8.5 x 8
Bratt 7.9 x 8
Severson 6.3 x 8
Caufield 7.9 x 8
Pastrnak 11.3 x 8
Larkin 8.7 x 8
Cozens 7.1 x 7
Horvat 8.5 x 8
Boldy 7 x 7
Hintz 8.5 x 8
Sanheim 6.3 x 8
Weegar 6.3 x 8
Barzal 9.2 x 8
MacKinnon 12.6 x 8
Kyrou 8.1 x 8
Stuetzle 8.4 x 8
Thompson 7.1 x 7
Tkachuk 9.5 x 8
Norris 8 x 8

 

[Fjordy]

I understand everything you've mentioned here. But i still don't see how such a deal for Dahlin makes sense when it's out of whack with literally every other player in the league except Matthews.

If it does end up playing out like this - then Toronto/Matthews are 100% to blame for resetting the market. And I'll (still) be angry at Adams for i) not signing Dahlin for max term coming off his ELC ii) not ensuring a long term deal was done before Matthews got his extension.

I don't want to turn this into a Dahlin thread - but the following is a list of long term, big money signings made in the last year or so. You can't tell me that everyone concerned wasn't aware of all the points you brought up above - yet all these deals still got done:

Sanderson 8 x 8 (post Matthews)
Hagel 6.5 x 8
Terry 7 x 7
Aho 9.8 x 8
Sorokin 8.3 x 8
Meier 8 x 8
Dubois 8.5 x 8
Bratt 7.9 x 8
Severson 6.3 x 8
Caufield 7.9 x 8
Pastrnak 11.3 x 8
Larkin 8.7 x 8
Cozens 7.1 x 7
Horvat 8.5 x 8
Boldy 7 x 7
Hintz 8.5 x 8
Sanheim 6.3 x 8
Weegar 6.3 x 8
Barzal 9.2 x 8
MacKinnon 12.6 x 8
Kyrou 8.1 x 8
Stuetzle 8.4 x 8
Thompson 7.1 x 7
Tkachuk 9.5 x 8
Norris 8 x 8

Obviously, it is more profitable for Dahlin to sign a contract for 4-5 years than for 8 because of his age. It will be easier for him to get a max contract of 8 years at 27-28 than at 31.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Obviously, it is more profitable for Dahlin to sign a contract for 4-5 years than for 8 because of his age. It will be easier for him to get a max contract of 8 years at 27-28 than at 31.

If that were the only thing that players cared about, then no other player in the league would sign 7/8 year extensions. Yet i posted a list above of 20+ good to elite players who signed long term extensions within the last year or so. How do you explain that?

 

[ForsbergMoDo21]

I understand everything you've mentioned here. But i still don't see how such a deal for Dahlin makes sense when it's out of whack with literally every other player in the league except Matthews.

If it does end up playing out like this - then Toronto/Matthews are 100% to blame for resetting the market. And I'll (still) be angry at Adams for i) not signing Dahlin for max term coming off his ELC ii) not ensuring a long term deal was done before Matthews got his extension.

I don't want to turn this into a Dahlin thread - but the following is a list of long term, big money signings made in the last year or so. You can't tell me that everyone concerned wasn't aware of all the points you brought up above - yet all these deals still got done:

Sanderson 8 x 8 (post Matthews)
Hagel 6.5 x 8
Terry 7 x 7
Aho 9.8 x 8
Sorokin 8.3 x 8
Meier 8 x 8
Dubois 8.5 x 8
Bratt 7.9 x 8
Severson 6.3 x 8
Caufield 7.9 x 8
Pastrnak 11.3 x 8
Larkin 8.7 x 8
Cozens 7.1 x 7
Horvat 8.5 x 8
Boldy 7 x 7
Hintz 8.5 x 8
Sanheim 6.3 x 8
Weegar 6.3 x 8
Barzal 9.2 x 8
MacKinnon 12.6 x 8
Kyrou 8.1 x 8
Stuetzle 8.4 x 8
Thompson 7.1 x 7
Tkachuk 9.5 x 8
Norris 8 x 8

Fair point and that’s a lot of deals. Throughout the playoffs I found myself wondering how disgruntling it must be for disgruntled players to watch Jack vs Sam for the cup. I don’t think Dahlin is sour here yet, but I’m sure he’s had his stretches (how could he not). Seeing how green the pastures were for former teammates who made a point to leave wouldn’t just be fanning the flames but squirting lighter fluid on them.

Which is to say, I can understand why Dahlin wouldn’t want extra long term on that basis alone. Get him to 5 years. 6 seasons of his prime. And really, should they not be legitimate contenders for at least 3 of those seasons? They’ll have gotten a major chunk of his prime. If he leaves in 2029 because the team never got over the hump, nobody would blame him anyway. The worst case is getting priced out of his next contract. But even then, how much of a raise would he really be getting if he goes max term for one last big one?

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Fair point and that’s a lot of deals. Throughout the playoffs I found myself wondering how disgruntling it must be for disgruntled players to watch Jack vs Sam for the cup. I don’t think Dahlin is sour here yet, but I’m sure he’s had his stretches (how could he not). Seeing how green the pastures were for former teammates who made a point to leave wouldn’t just be fanning the flames but squirting lighter fluid on them.

Which is to say, I can understand why Dahlin wouldn’t want extra long term on that basis alone. Get him to 5 years. 6 seasons of his prime. And really, should they not be legitimate contenders for at least 3 of those seasons? They’ll have gotten a major chunk of his prime. If he leaves in 2029 because the team never got over the hump, nobody would blame him anyway. The worst case is getting priced out of his next contract. But even then, how much of a raise would he really be getting if he goes max term for one last big one?

Bolded - except Dahlin is supposedly the frontman of the 'new' culture they have built on the 'players who want to be here' mantra. He's seen Thompson, Cozens, Samuelsson all sign long term, team friendly deals. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Jim Bob]

Bolded - except Dahlin is supposedly the frontman of the 'new' culture they have built on the 'players who want to be here' mantra. He's seen Thompson, Cozens, Samuelsson all sign long term, team friendly deals. It doesn't make sense.

If it isn't a difference of opinion on 4-5 yrs vs 7-8 years, I have a hard time understanding why it isn't a done deal yet.

I doubt they are that far apart on the money. And I doubt a NMC is a hold up.

 

[Fjordy]

If that were the only thing that players cared about, then no other player in the league would sign 7/8 year extensions. Yet i posted a list above of 20+ good to elite players who signed long term extensions within the last year or so. How do you explain that?

Well, people are different, some are ready to sign such contracts, and some are not. Moreover, your list includes different players of different ages. Dahlin is one of the best defensemen in the NHL at the moment and most importantly, he is younger than all of his closest competitors, and I’m sure he knows it. I don’t know why he hasn’t been signed yet and whether it’s a matter of timing, but Adams is obliged to sign him this year, even if it’s for 4-5 years.

 

[joshjull]

I understand everything you've mentioned here. But i still don't see how such a deal for Dahlin makes sense when it's out of whack with literally every other player in the league except Matthews.

I don't think you do. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough.

The economics of the league are back on track, maybe even a bit better, than pre pandemic. That means someone like Dahlin could try to push for a deal on par with what Doughy/Karlsson got 4/5 years ago. Maybe an 8x12 deal. If that is case, a 4 or 5yr deal at 11mil per would be taking less on a shorter deal. I have no idea if that's going on but it's in the realm of possibility.

How is a 4x11mil deal out of whack with the league? It would only be the 4th highest cap hit of deals signed this offseason. Behind Matthews 13.25mil, Mackinnon 12.6mil and Pasta 11.25mil. Whether you think he warrants that pay or not, it would seem pretty much in line with other elite players.

If it does end up playing out like this - then Toronto/Matthews are 100% to blame for resetting the market.

No, they're not. Mid-term length (4-6yrs) deals have been a thing for some time in the NHL. Hell, it's not even Matthews first one. He signed a 5yr deal 4 yrs. ago that set him up as a free agent when it expired. Which makes his situation a little different than Dahlin's.

And I'll (still) be angry at Adams for i) not signing Dahlin for max term coming off his ELC ii) not ensuring a long term deal was done before Matthews got his extension.

Be as angry as you want but players have a say in these things. This seems to be ignored by many. GMs can't force a player to sign a team friendly deal.

 

[joshjull]

Bolded - except Dahlin is supposedly the frontman of the 'new' culture they have built on the 'players who want to be here' mantra. He's seen Thompson, Cozens, Samuelsson all sign long term, team friendly deals. It doesn't make sense.

Not a single one of Thompson, Cozens or Sammy took less money to stay here or help the team. Each of their deals was a calculated risk on the part of management. Each of those players got paid what it took to get them to commit longer term. The reason they are value deals is the risk paid off and each of those players has grown.

Let's not start a fallacy that they passed up on bigger contracts to stay here.

 

[joshjull]

These guys are such assholes with what they posted today about the Johnson incident in England.

Absolute scumbags.

 

[BuffaloGooner]

These guys are such assholes with what they posted today about the Johnson incident in England.

Absolute scumbags.

I can’t f***ing believe they posted it

 

[Mattilaus]

What's the basics of what they said? I do not have a twitter account.

 

[Dubi Doo]

These guys are such assholes with what they posted today about the Johnson incident in England.

Absolute scumbags.

Oh boy, quick rundown on what was posted?

 

[joshjull]

Oh boy, quick rundown on what was posted?

Implying it may have been intentional.

 

[Ehran]

Oh boy, quick rundown on what was posted?

Twitter video of the guy that died this weekend from a cut throat. (in Germany I think?)

Tweet implies that his opponent kicked him in the throat intentionally.

 

[Jacob582]

I was so pissed that I unfollowed them.

I've seen video in the past of people dying, but I made the decision that I DIDN'T want to watch the Adam Johnson video.

As my eyes catch the video I realize what it is.

Too late.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[BuffaloGooner]

Retweeting an account basically accusing Petgrave of murder

It’s been a long time coming, but I’ve unsubbed and unfollowed. f*** em.

 

[TehDoak]

These guys are such assholes with what they posted today about the Johnson incident in England.

Absolute scumbags.

They always have been.

I've listened to it a few times.

Minimal insight, maximum hot takes with a mid to large amount of slander, depending on the day.

 

[Beerz]

I honestly don't know how I feel about the video.

 

[Overrated]

Oh boy, quick rundown on what was posted?

They reposted a tweet claiming it was intentional from a racist meme troll twitter account called "end wokeness".