After acquiring E Kane, Would You Trade for O'Reilly or a Similar Player?

[Needles]

Mark Stone? http://senshot.com/2015/01/30/mark-stone-first-line-player/

Don't know about the price though.

 

[sabrebuild]

If it were a short term deal similar to the last one he signed I would agree with you 100 percent.

But - you would like to think that he had enough foresight to understand the value of a huge term on what is in all likelyhood going to be a future powerhouse - with him as an integral part of that. SO offer something like 8yrs / $45m, front loaded as much as is possible these days & see where it gets you.

The guy is young, his agent is one of the toughest in the biz. You are out of your mind if you think you could get him for 5.5 a year no matter how many years you offer. Hmm, I got 6 a year on my last deal, so as a potential ufa, in my prime I should take a pay cut to be locked into a long term contract. Or I could get a raise on a shorter term deal and then get another raise in a few years because the cap will go up even higher and I'll still be under thirty. Hmm what to do what to do...

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

If it were a short term deal similar to the last one he signed I would agree with you 100 percent.

But - you would like to think that he had enough foresight to understand the value of a huge term on what is in all likelyhood going to be a future powerhouse - with him as an integral part of that. SO offer something like 8yrs / $45m, front loaded as much as is possible these days & see where it gets you.

if you're heading out to lunch don't go to subway, they've really gone downhill

 

[Rowley Birkin]

if you're heading out to lunch don't go to subway, they've really gone downhill

I actually hate Subway.

I may be naive here, but at the end of the day he is a nice player, but is not a 'superstar'. If somebody wants to offer him >7 per with term they're welcome to it IMO. I'd really like him on the Sabres personally but at some stage an over inflated salary starts to get in the way, when you have guys like Risto/Zadorov/Reinhart/Eichel etc. to extend.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I actually hate Subway.

I may be naive here, but at the end of the day he is a nice player, but is not a 'superstar'. If somebody wants to offer him >7 per with term they're welcome to it IMO. I'd really like him on the Sabres personally but at some stage an over inflated salary starts to get in the way, when you have guys like Risto/Zadorov/Reinhart/Eichel etc. to extend.

ya, I'm less interested with his contract situation now that we have Kane

for me ROR was always about, he comes in and plays 1c for a year or 2 then becomes your 2-way top line winger after Reinhart/McEichel take over the top 2c slots, with Kane and Girgensons we have those 2 guys and aren't in need of that player, so we can cheap out on the security blanket center

 

[BloFan4Life]

I want Phil Kessel bad.

 

[Gabrielor]

I want Phil Kessel bad.

??

I don't want him at all.

 

[ZeroPT*]

I want Phil Kessel bad.

for what we'd have to give up for him this board would cry. Especially after yesterday.

 

[BloFan4Life]

for what we'd have to give up for him this board would cry. Especially after yesterday.

His contract isn't the greatest and I feel like "star" players never go for what they think. Look at a guy like Rick Nash.

 

[Djp]

how about the Vanek deal, for Oreilly

Ennis (moulson), Conditional 2016 1st (top 5 protected), 2017 2nd

Not moving the 2016 1st.....if anything it would be a 2017 1st that is conditional on signing him to an extension.

Ennis is not moukson...Moulson was in his final year. Ennis has more value.

Once we have McDavid/Eichel in hand then I think Murray go full steam ahead with the building phase. O'Reilly would be a great piece. A young leader to insulate the kids the way the Oilers never have. One thing I found very interesting is that Murray is very tight with Oester, the agent for Kane who is also the agent for O'Reilly. If Murray makes a play for him then you know he knows he can workout a financial deal long term.

I would love to see the off-season unfold like:

1) Draft McDavid/Eichel
2) Send NYI 1st, Grigorenko, McCabe to Avs for O'Reilly, sign him long term
3) sign either Boychuk or Methot
4) Send NYI 2nd and a middle prospect to L.A. For Martin Jones

Probably a pipedream scenario but it would insulate the kids and set this team up to be competitive for a long time with Fashing, Bailey, Baptiste, Compher, Carrier still coming down the pipeline.

I would be fine doing 2 only if 1 happened

The other moves are fine...it depends on what contract though...

I wouldn't just hand O'Reilly whatever he wants because the has been tough to negotiate with in the past, and I highly doubt Tim would either. Logan Couture signed a 5 year 30 million dollar contract at about the same age with a better track record, and is a better player. Patrice Bergeron although at a different point in his career signed a 8 year 52 million dollar contract with and is the better player. A cap hit of 6.5 Per.

I am not interested in handing over a 52 million dollar deal to O'Reilly, I think that's borderline insane, but I would give him a comparable deal to that of Couture for starters. If he feels he is worth 52 million dollars over 8 seasons I would simply walk, between Girgensons, Eichel (hopefully), Kane and Reinhart that's going to be an awful lot of money tied down. He is a really nice two way player but I don't think he is a game changer.

You have to watch what you pay ROR because that could set a future benchmark on buffalos kids. You have to pencil in some Dort of cost based on roster spaces and see how much that leave you if you assume the cap is $80M in 2020.

 

[ZeroPT*]

His contract isn't the greatest and I feel like "star" players never go for what they think. Look at a guy like Rick Nash.

w top 6 forwards, a 1st and a good prospect. Yeah that's alot. Especially considering Nash handcuffed the jackets.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

w top 6 forwards, a 1st and a good prospect. Yeah that's alot. Especially considering Nash handcuffed the jackets.

Dubi was a big part. Arty wasn't a clear cut top 6 guy and often got rocked cause he couldn't keep his head up. Won faceoffs though. Erixon wasn't going to make the Rangers.

 

[Fly Boy]

If the Sharks implode again I would give a lot for Pavelski on this team going forward. The ROR ship has sailed for me, not interested in him anymore.

 

[sabrebuild]

Not moving the 2016 1st.....if anything it would be a 2017 1st that is conditional on signing him to an extension.

Ennis is not moukson...Moulson was in his final year. Ennis has more value.



I would be fine doing 2 only if 1 happened

The other moves are fine...it depends on what contract though...




You have to watch what you pay ROR because that could set a future benchmark on buffalos kids. You have to pencil in some Dort of cost based on roster spaces and see how much that leave you if you assume the cap is $80M in 2020.

Generally I don't think the contracts on your team set what your prospects and future home grown talent will cost. The market for that is set league wide. We are not paying Girgs next deal based on what Moulson or Ennis or Foligno got. He will get paid on what a first rounder who has performed at his level has gotten by other teams with similar rfas.

For what its worth with how much ROR would command vs the kids. I think Reinhart and McEichel are both likely to get more than 7 mil a year by the time their elc's end. It's possible that Reinhart doesn't get there because he won't have stupid offensive numbers to support his contract claim, but if McEichel is who we think he is, he's looking at a 9.5 a year cap hit after his elc. I also assumed an 80 million cap at the end of Reinhart and McEichel's elc and this is a potential cap situation.

Kane (5.5) McEichel (9.5) Moulson (5)
Girgs (5.5) Reinhart (7.5) ROR (7.0)
Foligno (3) Grigorenko (3.5) Ennis (4.5)
Des (1.5) Schaller (1.5) Fasching (1)

Zadorov (5) Risto (6)
McCabe(3) Bogo (5.1)
xxx (1.5) xxx (2)

5 million to goalies

That team gets you to 81.175 roughly. I think those deals are pretty fair, some could go up some down. But basically you cold still pay all your new big deals off and still take on ROR's deal. Take into account by then your dumping Moulson's deal, or you could trade Ennis or even both depending on what the options were at that time, and that by 2018-19 the cap will at least be around 80 million, there shouldn't be any concern with fitting ROR in even at 7 million a pop.

If anything, because you have three years before the big elc's hit, I think you should safely be able to fit Sekera in there at 6 a year. No problem in the short term and in the long term you get rid of Moulson's deal or whoever is not performing up to their contract to get the cap space you need.

Pysyk is not on that roster because I think he would be a necessary piece in a trade for ROR.

 

[sabrebuild]

It doesn't have to be ROR, for those terrified of his attitude or whatever, the point I want to make is don't worry about being able to afford the core kids salaries when their elc's are up. It shouldn't be a problem. We should absolutely go after the best vet center and LHD we can get.

 

[BananaSquad]

No because Murray can't trade and will overpay in some stupid way. Its so bad how Jets fans are parading around about how they won the Kane deal and how every player will work out. I'm still sour over Lemieux because he didn't want to sign but apparently he always wanted the jets according to fans.

Dont worry about what other fans think of this trade lol. We are now in a position to overpay in trades to get the pieces Murray wants. "Winning trades" on paper is over.

 

[ZeroPT*]

I'm sure many thought LA trading a top 5 prospect and a quality young NHLer for Richards was overpayment and a loss.

 

[Jame]

I can't wait until we have cap problems... It would mean we are a legit contender

 

[sabrebuild]

Exactly. When I ran those numbers all I could think was if our young guys play well enough to earn those contracts this team will be so fun to watch.

 

[30Yonge]

I'm sure many thought LA trading a top 5 prospect and a quality young NHLer for Richards was overpayment and a loss.

Remember though, Cups only cleanse venial decisions not grave ones.
The hockey gods will still smite those that reject the sacrament of compliance buyout.

 

[LottoPlease]

If we go after O'Reilly, I really hope it's once he goes UFA

well-rounded for sure, but let's not break the bank

 

[sabrebuild]

So by the metrics presented he is 24 year old who is just below first line talent across the board by those metrics, without including his takeaways and lineup flexibility? Make a smart deal, which could cost a lot and totally be worth it.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Sabres aren't even going to get a sniff of O'Reilly. He'll be gone sooner than later as the Av's decide to sell at best max value for desperately needed help at D. Either trade deadline or around July 1.

Watched O'Reilly vs the Rangers tonight. Not happy with his play. A lot of coasting and watching, not working hard on the boards or corners. He's been this way for most of the season except for a few short flashes.

Ranger's have a very nice team and Av's were out worked and out played and out skilled most of the game except for a brief burst of Colorado energy that tied the game 3 -3 for a short time. But really, was all Rangers tonight.

Hayes really shined. O'Reilly owned Stepan and Moore at the dot but Brassard outdrew O'Reilly by a couple.

 

[sabrebuild]

Sabres aren't even going to get a sniff of O'Reilly. He'll be gone sooner than later as the Av's decide to sell at best max value for desperately needed help at D. Either trade deadline or around July 1.

Watched O'Reilly vs the Rangers tonight. Not happy with his play. A lot of coasting and watching, not working hard on the boards or corners. He's been this way for most of the season except for a few short flashes.

Ranger's have a very nice team and Av's were out worked and out played and out skilled most of the game except for a brief burst of Colorado energy that tied the game 3 -3 for a short time. But really, was all Rangers tonight.

Hayes really shined. O'Reilly owned Stepan and Moore at the dot but Brassard outdrew O'Reilly by a couple.

Why would the Sabres be out based on either of these options? We probably would prefer the second time period, but if the price is right Murray should go for him at the deadline too. So after you randomly tell us we won't sniff ROR without providing a reason, you provide an update on how he has been lazy this season and how the Avs game went tonight.... Has someone been drinking and typing?

 

[BringBuffaloStanley]

Package of Grigorenko plus NYI 2nd for Jordan Eberle. NYI first plus WPG 2nd plus Gorges/Weber for Jeff Skinner. Package of Stewart plus Mitchell plus Neurvirth for 2015 1st and dead weight. Matt Moulson (is a lw doesn't like to play rw, 33/34 years old around cup contention) dangle for a 2015 first or griffin Reinhart) no o'reilly, he's demonstrated is all about money, and will hold out for the highest contract possible. Not paying a top 6/9 winger 6.5 to 7 mill