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[Samus44]

Im not saying he wouldnt be effective, I just dont think he would be scoring 200+ points and lapping the competition. We arnt talking different leagues in the same time frame...we are talking a different game in a very different time, and with much more parity of competition.

But him and Lemieux were the only guys to ever do it. Lemieux was still brilliant. Joe Thornton plays still today, Marleau, Jagr recently, ect... and Gretzky was an elite player while they were around. Gretzky literally changed how the game was played, it's why systems in hockey became so complex. Gretzky was an incredible athlete and was exceptional in Lacross and Baseball. His gifts are often understated as he was near or at the top of his class in all skills. He scored 92 f***ing goals, that wasn't even close to normal then. Lemieux was one of the guys getting "lapped" by Gretzky for a time and he was still unreal even in his brief stint post lockout. Messier, Francis, Yzerman, Chelios, Bourque, were all getting lapped at a time, would anyone say their game wouldn't translate? The game hasn't evolved so much that we should be invalidating obscene greatness and I think other great players have proven it with their own longevity. Gretzky and Lemieux are the two greatest forwards to ever play and it isn't close. Gretzky's sustained domination over his peers is so ridiculous that people then and people now have always tried to find a way to take the shine off. As replacement aptly said it was a common theory that his game wouldn't translate when he was a teen and all those people ended up looking foolish. Gretzky's domination extends beyond what one would consider reasonable to expect given the game nowadays, the thing is it was then too. I also think post back injury he would continue to become more reliant on his smarts and passing and now people like you remember him for his game in his mid-late 30's.

 

[jeffff]

You know its 2020 when guys are actually trying to convince others that having the undisputed greatest player in the history of the sport isn't as prefered as "having a solid D core" LMFAO

Gretzky

/Thread

 

[Soundwave]

Gretzky's numbers in the twilight of his career during the dead puck era are still impressive.

96-97 season (age 36) - 97 points in 82 games, 10g + 10a in 15 playoff games (wow)

97-98 season (age 37) - 90 points in 82 games, tied for 1st in league for assists with prime Jagr (also wow).

Obviously the version of Gretzky you'd pick in this scenario would be age 24-28 or so.

You could deploy some interesting forward groups, maybe a 3 line setup

Ennis Gretzky Kassian
RNH McDavid Neal
Kahun Draisaitl Yamamoto
Chiasson Turris Puljujarvi

Or more likely put McDavid and Draisaitl back together and let RNH Gretzky Kassian be their own unit.

 

[Fourier]

Gretzky's numbers in the twilight of his career during the dead puck era are still impressive.

96-97 season (age 36) - 97 points in 82 games, 10g + 10a in 15 playoff games (wow)

97-98 season (age 37) - 90 points in 82 games, tied for 1st in league for assists with prime Jagr (also wow).

Obviously the version of Gretzky you'd pick in this scenario would be age 24-28 or so.

You could deploy some interesting forward groups, maybe a 3 line setup

Ennis Gretzky Kassian
RNH McDavid Neal
Kahun Draisaitl Yamamoto
Chiasson Turris Puljujarvi

Or more likely put McDavid and Draisaitl back together and let RNH Gretzky Kassian be their own unit.

And that Gretzky was a shadow of his prime self. He had lost the incedible aglity that was a huge part of his game. People talk about Gretzky being slow, which he never was. But they forget how he could do things on skates that few people could do.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

And that Gretzky was a shadow of his prime self. He had lost the incedible aglity that was a huge part of his game. People talk about Gretzky being slow, which he never was. But they forget how he could do things on skates that few people could do.

It's not Gretzky's abilities that I think wouldn't translate, it's more quality of opposition. The 80s didn't really have a priority on defensive systems and some goalies looked like beer leaguers in highlights.

I'm not taking anything away from what he did when he did it, or challenging that he's not the greatest of all time. I'm just not convinced that his game would translate to be as dominant against today's opponents and coaching. I don't think he'd come close to the 180 points per year that's been mentioned in this thread. He can't feast on 4th line enforcer lines, defencemen that can only turn one direction, or 5'9" goalies anymore.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

It’s not loading up on offence, it’s adding the best player in NHL history to the lineup. It’s like adding 2 more Mcdavids in 1 spot. Gretzky would turn RNH into a 120 point player and Kassian into a 40 goal scorer. McDrai will be on the 2nd line destroying the opposition. The PP would probably end up as the best PP in NHL history.

2 more McDavids in 1 spot??? What kind of sorcery is this? Please elaborate.

 

[McShogun99]

It's not Gretzky's abilities that I think wouldn't translate, it's more quality of opposition. The 80s didn't really have a priority on defensive systems and some goalies looked like beer leaguers in highlights.

I'm not taking anything away from what he did when he did it, or challenging that he's not the greatest of all time. I'm just not convinced that his game would translate to be as dominant against today's opponents and coaching. I don't think he'd come close to the 180 points per year that's been mentioned in this thread. He can't feast on 4th line enforcer lines, defencemen that can only turn one direction, or 5'9" goalies anymore.

He was still scoring near a 1.2 PPG as a broken old man during the dead puck era against a prime Roy, Brodeur, Hasek and going against Dmen like Pronger, Lidstrom, Stevens etc....

Prime Gretzky wouldn’t be hitting 200 points in today’s game but he would be winning scoring titles by a wide margin.

 

[tardigrade81]

Gretzky or Pronger without a doubt

they’re both so...... beautiful.

 

[Samus44]

It's not Gretzky's abilities that I think wouldn't translate, it's more quality of opposition. The 80s didn't really have a priority on defensive systems and some goalies looked like beer leaguers in highlights.

I'm not taking anything away from what he did when he did it, or challenging that he's not the greatest of all time. I'm just not convinced that his game would translate to be as dominant against today's opponents and coaching. I don't think he'd come close to the 180 points per year that's been mentioned in this thread. He can't feast on 4th line enforcer lines, defencemen that can only turn one direction, or 5'9" goalies anymore.

He also wouldn't have to play with and rely on those kinds of players either. Again nobody else was doing what he was, many of whom continued to play well into the 2000's. I don't think anybody questions that the gap for his extreme dominance has closed but instead of doubling the production of a guy like Tavares maybe he only gets 1.5 times as many points, maybe he only pushes 150, that's still the best player in the league. He might also never get gooned by Suter and not spend a significant part of his career hobbled.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I enjoyed watching the Oilers win 7-4 back in the day so lets do it again and get Gretzky. McDavid as our 2c with Draisatl on one wing and RNH on the other and the 4th line plays 37 seconds a game.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Can't say no to the Great One here in spite of the fact that we need a 1D. That said, I could "settle" for Messier, Pronger or Coffey.

 

[Fourier]

He was still scoring near a 1.2 PPG as a broken old man during the dead puck era against a prime Roy, Brodeur, Hasek and going against Dmen like Pronger, Lidstrom, Stevens etc....

Prime Gretzky wouldn’t be hitting 200 points in today’s game but he would be winning scoring titles by a wide margin.

Exactly!

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

He was still scoring near a 1.2 PPG as a broken old man during the dead puck era against a prime Roy, Brodeur, Hasek and going against Dmen like Pronger, Lidstrom, Stevens etc....

Prime Gretzky wouldn’t be hitting 200 points in today’s game but he would be winning scoring titles by a wide margin.

Fair point

 

[Fourier]

He also wouldn't have to play with and rely on those kinds of players either. Again nobody else was doing what he was, many of whom continued to play well into the 2000's. I don't think anybody questions that the gap for his extreme dominance has closed but instead of doubling the production of a guy like Tavares maybe he only gets 1.5 times as many points, maybe he only pushes 150, that's still the best player in the league. He might also never get gooned by Suter and not spend a significant part of his career hobbled.

Plus back in the day defensemen could virtually tackle anyone who came near the net. And if that didn't work your went to the lumber. So while systems are definiely better, I think Greztky has more freedom to think of ways to beat them.

Even if teams could think of ways to control him. It would mean focusing everything on him which would leave McDavid and Leon or whomever room to run havoc making both of them even that much more effective. When Gretzky was managed it took two players focusing on him almost exclusively. That left the rest of the team on a virtual continuous power play.

No player in the history of the game has lifted others on his team the way Gretzky did. A 19 year old Wayne Gretzy turned BJ MacDonald into a 46 goal, 94 points in 80 games player. At age 20 in a little over half a season playing together Dave Lumley scored 32 goals and had 74 points in 66 games. Now you have to love Lummer, but if this doesn't tell you what Gretzky could do to lift a team...I don't know what to say.

In addition, McDavid and Leon would have the best hockey education anyone could get. Ask Messier or Kurri about what they learned from Gretzky. Even Mario Lemieux. Lemieux pre-87 and post 87 Canada Cup were two different players.

 

[Messrules11]

Gretzky all day every day but our goaltending sucks so on the off day I’d take Fuhr.

 

[MessierII]

Gretzky should be excluded. Not really fair to have the goat as an option.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

Gretzky should be excluded. Not really fair to have the goat as an option.

Agreed.

I thought this poll was going to be a landslide tbh. It's still fun and interesting to see I guess.

 

[McSuper]

I picked Pronger base on team need but Gretzky would make our offence unstoppable.

McDavid Gretzky Puljujarvi. 99 would get Puljujarvi going

RNH Draisaitl Yam .

Any player on the list would make a big difference.

I picked Pronger over Coffey because of Pronger be a nasty SOB to play against . But man PC could change a game . Best skater I ever saw but in today’s NHL with better skaters I think Pronger would be a better choice

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

I watched the cup winning game from 84 today and thanked god for making me 13 at the time. What a magical time to have been a kid and a fan of the Oil.

 

[Smartguy]

You know its 2020 when guys are actually trying to convince others that having the undisputed greatest player in the history of the sport isn't as prefered as "having a solid D core" LMFAO

Gretzky

/Thread

I literally can not grasp how some are not saying Gretzky. I get Pronger was a good fit but how do you not say having the greatest player of all time? Like he shouldn’t even be apart of the poll because it’s not a fair poll, but somehow he’s barely leading.

Also I HATE the argument that I just read on here how Gretzky wouldn’t dominate in today’s game because it’s different. People, the game is hockey, and to this day nobody has played it the way Gretzky did. It’s not that he was just good, or that he was the best of a bad bunch. He literally did things in hockey nobody thought possible. People marvel at Mcdavid, take that and multiply it a few times and that’s what Gretzky could do. I was young when he was on the back 9 of his career so I didn’t get to watch a tonne of Gretzky but I spent a good portion of my childhood watching NHL classics, anyone who disputes what he did in the game of hockey VS players today and the game today never saw him play. His vision was insane, the game was just so easy for him.

Not saying Pronger and what he did in 2006 with that Oilers team wasn’t great, easily the best defenseman I’ve watched in my life in that 20ish game sample size, it’s just your comparing that to a prime Gretzky, it’s not even a discussion.

It’s not loading up on offence, it’s adding the best player in NHL history to the lineup. It’s like adding 2 more Mcdavids in 1 spot. Gretzky would turn RNH into a 120 point player and Kassian into a 40 goal scorer. McDrai will be on the 2nd line destroying the opposition. The PP would probably end up as the best PP in NHL history.

This times a million. Actually just forget defense, Mcdavid and Gretzky likely cover about 50 of 60 minutes in a game. Gretzky literally turned that team into a dynasty. They built a solid team around Gretzky, but you aren’t talking the way you do about those players without Gretzky.

Here’s a video showing just how good he was packed into a few minutes. He could do things that players just can’t, even today
https://youtu.be/RCrUcovi820

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

This times a million. Actually just forget defense, Mcdavid and Gretzky likely cover about 50 of 60 minutes in a game. Gretzky literally turned that team into a dynasty. They built a solid team around Gretzky, but you aren’t talking the way you do about those players without Gretzky.

Here’s a video showing just how good he was packed into a few minutes. He could do things that players just can’t, even today

https://youtu.be/RCrUcovi820

Hyperbole and exaggerated.

I mean you're clearly undervaluing defense in today's game. It's a 200ft game compared to when Gretzky played back in the day. As much as I like to see us winning 8-6 every other night, it won't be high scoring games come playoff hockey. Great for stat padding and regular season success, but likely to be swept or bounced in the 1st round by teams with tighter checking and defensive strats.

Tampa won the cup this last season albeit shortened but they're able to play both ends of the ice. St. Louis did it the season before them and the Blues were good defensively. Can you honestly say "just forget defense" and consider this team cup champs with prime Gretzky??

 

[Smartguy]

Hyperbole and exaggerated.

I mean you're clearly undervaluing defense in today's game. It's a 200ft game compared to when Gretzky played back in the day. As much as I like to see us winning 8-6 every other night, it won't be high scoring games come playoff hockey. Great for stat padding and regular season success, but likely to be swept or bounced in the 1st round by teams with tighter checking and defensive strats.

Tampa won the cup this last season albeit shortened but they're able to play both ends of the ice. St. Louis did it the season before them and the Blues were good defensively. Can you honestly say "just forget defense" and consider this team cup champs with prime Gretzky??

Why did you quote me knowing it was a hyperbole and an exaggeration, then go on to get upset like it was fact?
Obviously I’m aware they would need defense still.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

Why did you quote me knowing it was a hyperbole and an exaggeration, then go on to get upset like it was fact?
Obviously I’m aware they would need defense still.

LOL. It's just a normal conversation. What is there to be upset about?? Cause I'm pointing out that it was indeed hyperbole and an exaggeration.

You:

Actually just forget defense

Also you:

they would need defense still

Slightly confused but no point in discussing this any further.

Super passive aggressive LOL

 

[Fourier]

Hyperbole and exaggerated.

I mean you're clearly undervaluing defense in today's game. It's a 200ft game compared to when Gretzky played back in the day. As much as I like to see us winning 8-6 every other night, it won't be high scoring games come playoff hockey. Great for stat padding and regular season success, but likely to be swept or bounced in the 1st round by teams with tighter checking and defensive strats.

Tampa won the cup this last season albeit shortened but they're able to play both ends of the ice. St. Louis did it the season before them and the Blues were good defensively. Can you honestly say "just forget defense" and consider this team cup champs with prime Gretzky??

There is no reason why adding Gretzky would preculde playing solid defensively. The dynasty Oilers could play that way when needed. Gretzky was also far more effective defensively than he is often given credit for. He played high in the offensive zone but was fanatastic at breaking up pasing lanes and tremendous at starting transition. Plus if you were playing defense while he was on the ice pinching was extremely dangerous. His anticipation made him a terrific penalty killer. He also scored 73 Sh G and had 149 sh points. In the end you don't end up being +100 in a season if you can't play in your own end.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

There is no reason why adding Gretzky would preculde playing solid defensively. The dynasty Oilers could play that way when needed. Gretzky was also far more effective defensively than he is often given credit for. He played high in the offensive zone but was fanatastic at breaking up pasing lanes and tremendous at starting transition. Plus if you were playing defense while he was on the ice pinching was extremely dangerous. His anticipation made him a terrific penalty killer. He also scored 73 Sh G and had 149 sh points. In the end you don't end up being +100 in a season if you can't play in your own end.

I've noticed a lot of the narratives in choosing Gretzky over the other options are far more focused on producing points as opposed to making us cup contenders.