Add One Past Oiler To The Current Roster

[McShogun99]

Defence wins championships.

So why does Pronger only have 1 Cup? I'm not going to argue that D wins championships because that's 90% true but when a team is so dominant on offence it won't need a great defence.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

The reason goal differential matters is because NHL rules say that you win if you score more goals than the other team. As far as I know that also applies in the playoffs. The chart below tells you the rank of the last ten cup winners in terms of their rank in GF and GA in the playoffs.

GF	GA
4	3
6	7
1	4
1	5
2	3
3	9
1	4
6	4
3	1
5	1
3.2	4.1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Over the last 5 years here is the regualr season GF rank of teh cup winner.

GF

1

5

24

1

6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

And finally, Gretzky was far and away the best playoff player I have ever watched. It's not even close.

I get that goal differential matters but our roster a) would allow more goals in since the defence and goaltending aren't as good as the teams I've mentioned the previous post and b) you're expecting to score more than said teams, in reality we won't score enough goals to be in the positive. We'd let more GAs than GF.

Your points regarding our defence and goaltending isn't reassuring either. Too much emphasis on what Gretz can do and not enough to cover the weaker links (defence and goaltending) on the current roster. Prime Gretz had an easier time with Coffey and 2 good goalies in Moog and Fuhr. We don't have anyone like that yet, maybe Bouchard next season but we'd still need a top end goalie.

I've already clarified my point. We won't be able to compete with those teams I've mentioned even with prime Gretz. There's too many holes on this roster for even Gretz to overcome.

 

[McShogun99]

Im going off the join date of 2017 to say you are likely arguing with someone who has never watched Gretzky actually play a full game. That’s the difference. Anyone on here old enough, or like me watched a lot of classic NHL games, is saying Gretzky and wondering what everyone else is smoking. Anyone voting Pronger probably remembers how good Pronger was in 2006 as one of their fondest hockey memories, which is fine, I just don’t know how you argue against adding the greatest player of all time to your roster, but I stopped arguing that a few pages ago.

Here's the thing with Gretzky. He was so good that he looked like someone playing a video game on easy mode

We've established that prime Gretz will take us to the playoffs. I'm not concerned about points or goal differentials LOL

My point is simple: We won't beat out teams like Colorado's current roster (assuming it's Roy or Forsberg) or St. Louis' roster (Pronger) in a playoff format. And those are teams in the West. Tampa, Boston, Pittsburgh, heck maybe Buffalo's roster with prime Hasek might be good enough to be cup contenders now that they have Hall.

Man is Colorado overhyped. That's a team that needs team defence.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

Here's the thing with Gretzky. He was so good that he looked like someone playing a video game on easy mode


Man is Colorado overhyped. That's a team that needs team defence.

Except this isn't a video game as much you like to believe that LOL Maybe back in the 80s sure, but not today's modern game.

We get to add prime Gretz and they get to add 1 of prime Roy or a prime Blake. It's called leveling the playing field. Do you see how this works?

 

[McShogun99]

Except this isn't a video game as much you like to believe that LOL Maybe back in the 80s sure, but not today's modern game.

We get to add prime Gretz and they get to add 1 of prime Roy or a prime Blake. It's called leveling the playing field. Do you see how this works?

The poll isn't if we add Gretzky then the other team adds a prime player. Gretzky also played against a prime Roy and the Stanley Cup count was 4 to 2. Hockey wasn't a video game in the 80's either. If it was then every star player on each team would be scoring 200 points. Look at the numbers, Gretzky was so far ahead in scoring then any other non Oiler not named Lemieux that he made it look like he was playing a game on easy mode, just to clarify it for you.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

The poll isn't if we add Gretzky then the other team adds a prime player. Gretzky also played against a prime Roy and the Stanley Cup count was 4 to 2. Hockey wasn't a video game in the 80's either. If it was then every star player on each team would be scoring 200 points. Look at the numbers, Gretzky was so far ahead in scoring then any other non Oiler not named Lemieux that he made it look like he was playing a game on easy mode, just to clarify it for you.

Yikes... you're probably the most uninteresting person to chat with.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

If you think Gretzky would score 200 points how are you picking pronger? With Gretzky scoring 200 points you’re probably adding 100 goals minimum to the current team with one player.

Anyone who’s taking pronger over Gretzky is seriously lacking appreciation for how good Gretzky was haha, I can’t believe this is still a tied vote.

We definitely appreciate how good he is.

But with Pronger we wouldn't get scored on for half the game.

 

[McShogun99]

Yikes... you're probably the most uninteresting person to chat with.

You know you’ve won the argument when the other person sinks to personal attacks.

 

[iCanada]

So why does Pronger only have 1 Cup? I'm not going to argue that D wins championships because that's 90% true but when a team is so dominant on offence it won't need a great defence.

Why did Gretzky never win without the rest of the boys on the bus?

I think it's a no brainer to pick Gretzky in like 99 out of 100 scenarios, to the point of absurdity. But I do think we're in the one scenario where Pronger is probably the play. We already have two generational talent level centers, and while I think Gretzky is better than both of them, I think if you have Gretzky eating those minutes you're getting diminishing returns on the effectiveness of McDavid or Draisaitl... There are only do many PP minutes and Prime opportunities to go around.

That being said, you add Pronger to McDrai? That's a terrifyingly complete team.

 

[Jumptheshark]

no love for Fuhr. Moog or Ranford?

 

[McShogun99]

Why did Gretzky never win without the rest of the boys on the bus?

I think it's a no brainer to pick Gretzky in like 99 out of 100 scenarios, to the point of absurdity. But I do think we're in the one scenario where Pronger is probably the play. We already have two generational talent level centers, and while I think Gretzky is better than both of them, I think if you have Gretzky eating those minutes you're getting diminishing returns on the effectiveness of McDavid or Draisaitl... There are only do many PP minutes and Prime opportunities to go around.

That being said, you add Pronger to McDrai? That's a terrifyingly complete team.

You wouldn’t see a big decrease in minutes. Gretzky, Mcdavid and Draisiatl would all be on the 1sr PP. When we moved Draisaitl to his own line there wasn’t a decrease in minutes for him or Mcdavid. I agree that adding Pronger or anther HOF Dman would make this team a serious Cup contender over adding another forward but if you add a forward like Gretzky or Lemiuex to this group then you probably have another dynasty. Probably the only player Dman I would take over adding Gretzky is Orr but that’s not what the original post is about.

 

[Fourier]

Why did Gretzky never win without the rest of the boys on the bus?

I think it's a no brainer to pick Gretzky in like 99 out of 100 scenarios, to the point of absurdity. But I do think we're in the one scenario where Pronger is probably the play. We already have two generational talent level centers, and while I think Gretzky is better than both of them, I think if you have Gretzky eating those minutes you're getting diminishing returns on the effectiveness of McDavid or Draisaitl... There are only do many PP minutes and Prime opportunities to go around.

That being said, you add Pronger to McDrai? That's a terrifyingly complete team.

LA went from 68 points to 91 points the year after the trade. They then beat the defending champs in the playoffs before losing to the evenutal Cup winners. Gretzky averaged two points per game in 11 playoff gaems vs two of the best teams in the NHL. That team had a young Luc Robitaille and Bernie Nichols as oppose to Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl. That's the same Bernie Nichols who put up 70 goals and 150 points playing with Greztky in the first year and 75 points and then 27 gaols and 75 points in 47 games before getting dealt to the Rangers. I think most Oiler fans soon figured out who was responsible for those insane numbers.

That said, Gretzky was a very different player after being hit by Suter in the 91 Canada Cup. Even so at 32 he almost led a very average Kings team to a cup, though most Leaf fans might say that LA should not have been in the finals.

 

[subnet]

That said, Gretzky was a very different player after being hit by Suter in the 91 Canada Cup. Even so at 32 he almost led a very average Kings team to a cup, though most Leaf fans might say that LA should not have been in the finals.

As one of those who saw #99 in his prime, I can appreciate everything you’ve been saying Fourier. Many on here who haven’t, just don’t get what he could and did do out there. Watching archived games now doesn’t equate as we just didn’t see the game and the players didn’t play the game as Gretzky did. He was just so far ahead of his peers it was amazing.

As an example, let’s take McDavid and how good he is now. We still have people that think Eichel or MacKinnon is ‘close’, or a Crosby or Kucherov. We know Connor is, but there is still some room for a discussion. In Gretzky’s time, there wasn’t anyone that was even semi close - he was just that good and dominant and that much better than everyone. He did this over his entire career and the only one who was ever even close was Lemieux.

Watching that highlight package was pretty cool - so many times he would fake the slapshot and then deke and easily shovel it past the goalie. The other times, he could absolutely pinpoint his slapper with great accuracy. If he faked it he'd beat you, if he shot it, he'd beat you. Pretty good for a small, slow, undersized player that had a weak shot

That hit from Suter still pisses me off as it really did affect him. Regardless, he had a pretty amazing and long career and went out when he was still OK but just not dominant like he normally was throughout his career.

 

[The Panther]

Kind of a silly topic to get yr knickers in a knot over.

I will just say that I would give my left nut to see McDavid and Coffey together in overtime. If the Oilers win the face-off, the game is over.

 

[Fourier]

Kind of a silly topic to get yr knickers in a knot over.

I will just say that I would give my left nut to see McDavid and Coffey together in overtime. If the Oilers win the face-off, the game is over.

I actually think it has been a pretty interesting discussion. I can even appreciate why people chose Pronger, though like you if I was picking a defenseman I'd go with Coffey. And I agee that Coffey with McDavid would be a sight for sore eyes!

One thing I do find interestinng is the belief that Gretky's game would not translate to today. Personally, I think Gretzky's cerebral approach to the game fits perfectly with today's system oriented approach. Similarly with Coffey. His style of play is a perfect fit for today's game. Ironically, I have greater concerns for Pronger's game translating fully to today. As good as Pronger was, and I fully admit he was a fantastic defenseman, one of the things that really set him apart was his extreme nastiness. He was a very old school defenseman. But he could'nt get away with a lot of that today. He'd be in the box half the time and would probably be suspended on a regular basis so he'd have to adjust his game in a manner that would make him less effective. He still be a force at both ends but I am not sure he'd be the Chris Pronger everyone remembers. .

 

[The Panther]

I actually think it has been a pretty interesting discussion. I can even appreciate why people chose Pronger, though like you if I was picking a defenseman I'd go with Coffey. And I agee that Coffey with McDavid would be a sight for sore eyes!

Oh, I wasn't saying I would pick Coffey as my choice. I wouldn't. I'm just saying that it would be damn exciting to see him and McDavid zipping up the ice together.

One thing I do find interestinng is the belief that Gretky's game would not translate to today. Personally, I think Gretzky's cerebral approach to the game fits perfectly with today's system oriented approach. Similarly with Coffey. His style of play is a perfect fit for today's game. Ironically, I have greater concerns for Pronger's game translating fully to today. As good as Pronger was, and I fully admit he was a fantastic defenseman, one of the things that really set him apart was his extreme nastiness. He was a very old school defenseman. But he could'nt get away with a lot of that today. He'd be in the box half the time and would probably be suspended on a regular basis so he'd have to adjust his game in a manner that would make him less effective. He still be a force at both ends but I am not sure he'd be the Chris Pronger everyone remembers. .

Yes, there's always that question if pre-2005 players could play within the rules, in the 'softer' NHL of today. But I think they all could; I mean, they're elite athletes. They can adapt. But I know what you mean -- it's probably true that a Pronger-type would be a little less effective today.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

I actually think it has been a pretty interesting discussion. I can even appreciate why people chose Pronger, though like you if I was picking a defenseman I'd go with Coffey. And I agee that Coffey with McDavid would be a sight for sore eyes!

One thing I do find interestinng is the belief that Gretky's game would not translate to today. Personally, I think Gretzky's cerebral approach to the game fits perfectly with today's system oriented approach. Similarly with Coffey. His style of play is a perfect fit for today's game. Ironically, I have greater concerns for Pronger's game translating fully to today. As good as Pronger was, and I fully admit he was a fantastic defenseman, one of the things that really set him apart was his extreme nastiness. He was a very old school defenseman. But he could'nt get away with a lot of that today. He'd be in the box half the time and would probably be suspended on a regular basis so he'd have to adjust his game in a manner that would make him less effective. He still be a force at both ends but I am not sure he'd be the Chris Pronger everyone remembers. .

I've certainly learnt a lot from our discussions. It was pretty much a topic of opinion. And we all have different opinions on who we'd like to choose.

I went with Pronger just cause we never had a defencemen like him after he left. It was a choice based on needs cause frankly I'd prefer to strengthen certain parts of the roster thats considered average or weaker. Picking Gretz even though we're doing great on the offensive side of the roster didn't sit well with me since there were bigger needs to address.

There's no wrong answer. Again its just opinion based.

 

[NotAVacuumSalesman]

You know you’ve won the argument when the other person sinks to personal attacks.

This poll wasn't about winning any arguments. There's no wrong answer here and its purely based on opinion.

 

[Dynamic]

Having Pronger out there for damn near half the game as a steady presence back there would be HUGE to this team.

 

[McShogun99]

Having Pronger out there for damn near half the game as a steady presence back there would be HUGE to this team.

Look at it this way. 25 minutes of Pronger or 45 minutes of Gretzky/RNH on one line and Mcdavid/Draisaitl on another line. Even with our average D all the advanced stats/puck possession/shot attemps/GF/GA is heavily favored to our side when Mcdavid and Draisiaitl are on the ice. Now you will have 2 lines with players that average 23+ minutes per game on the ice and moving the needle for us. Honestly in all fairness, Gretzky shouldn't even be a part of this poll.

 

[lakai17]

Rollie

 

[AM]

Look at it this way. 25 minutes of Pronger or 45 minutes of Gretzky/RNH on one line and Mcdavid/Draisaitl on another line. Even with our average D all the advanced stats/puck possession/shot attemps/GF/GA is heavily favored to our side when Mcdavid and Draisiaitl are on the ice. Now you will have 2 lines with players that average 23+ minutes per game on the ice and moving the needle for us. Honestly in all fairness, Gretzky shouldn't even be a part of this poll.

Yes, it’s sacrilege.