Value of: Adam Larsson

[bucks_oil]

It's almost like the two teams have different needs and holes in their roster and the Canucks have a huge need for a PPQB...

We need a PPQB almost as badly.... so... I think the point still stands.

 

[kurt]

Has anyone made a Taylor Hall joke yet? If not, I can do it. Give me 48 hours.

lmao

 

[bucks_oil]

That's what I can't seem to understand. With all the talk about guys like Hamonic and Shattenkirk being available, and seeing the return guys like Kulikov, Hamilton, and Jones got, the Larsson deal is puzzling.

Hrmm....

Rumors say that NYR wouldn't part with Hamonic, even for Hall... and that Shattenkirk wouldn't resign in Edmonton.

As for the bolded... valid point, but:
1) Jones garnered Johanssen, not as proven as Hall offensively, but a 70 point guy... and a center with a two-way reputation.
2) Kulikov and Hamilton... not sure these guys were as trusted by their coaches as Larsson and certainly didn't have contracts as valuable as Larsson. But yeah, those optics aren't great to fans who are swayed by the counting numbers.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

This IS Context! This tells me that Oscar Klefbom is better than Andy Greene, albeit, for Top Pairing, not Shut-Down. Numbers don't lie. Andy Greene is a good player but people forget Klefbom actually played like a Top 20 Dman in the league last year before getting injured.

Didn't Klefblom only play 30 NHL games last year? Let's wait until he plays like that for a more significant stretch.

 

[Roof Daddy]

Andy Greene was +7
Larsson was +15

So who is being carried, Larsson or Greene?

I wasn't necessarily suggesting Greene carried him, just mentioned it's open for debate because NJ fans have mentioned that will be the ultimate test - to see how he plays without Greene. They did get split up at one point last year, and Larsson had the better numbers between the two during that brief span, but Greene continued to get the toughest match ups over that time. I'm not sure you can read into that too much. Either way, that's not much of an argument you're putting up. What is more pertinent to the debate is that Greene was paired with Fayne for a few seasons and made him look like a legit 2nd pair shutdown guy. We know what Fayne looked like away from Greene.

I'm not saying I have the same concern with Larsson, but it's fair for others to question it because Greene is a rock solid vet. I actually believe Klefbom will add a different dynamic in a pair with Larsson, a dynamic that could open up his offensive game.

 

[Paralyzer]

Didn't Klefblom only play 30 NHL games last year? Let's wait until he plays like that for a more significant stretch.

This is 2015 and Klefbom STILL outplayed him. I think we've waited long enough.

 

[GDDevils*]

This is 2015 and Klefbom STILL outplayed him. I think we've waited long enough.

You really don't get it do you?

Those charts are only helpful to compare players who are utilized the same way. Color me surprised that Klefbom's chart looks better when playing against inferior competition.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

You really don't get it do you?

Those charts are only helpful to compare players who are utilized the same way. Color me surprised that Klefbom's chart looks better when playing against inferior competition.

Well either klefbom>Greene or Greene suffered because of "situation". At which point we could guess that Larsson also suffered being in the same situation (while being better defensively).

Situation=system play, zone starts, qoc etc.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

This is 2015 and Klefbom STILL outplayed him. I think we've waited long enough.

'We' have not waited long enough although I am sure that 'you' have.
Until he plays more than 30 games against the top lines this is all conjecture and those charts from an earlier year when he played against lesser competition are not relevant.

 

[Paralyzer]

You really don't get it do you?

Those charts are only helpful to compare players who are utilized the same way. Color me surprised that Klefbom's chart looks better when playing against inferior competition.

Your the one not getting it. If Larsson did good with Greene, then Klefbom will help him even more. That's my point. Obviously you are thinking I'm stupid and I don't know what I am talking about but CLEARLY I do. I know EXACTLY what I am saying and I'll say it one last time. Charts don't lie. Numbers don't lie. Greene is a fine defender and I get that, but to say Larsson only succeeded because of Greene is absurd.

Do you get it now?

 

[Paralyzer]

'We' have not waited long enough although I am sure that 'you' have.
Until he plays more than 30 games against the top lines this is all conjecture and those charts from an earlier year when he played against lesser competition are not relevant.

Klefbom didn't play against 'lesser' opponents. He played Top line minutes when the Oilers defence fell like flies with injuries. He played tough minutes against opponents at the end of 2014-2015 and did exceptional. If your not convinced, then just say so, but don't make up fictional stuff that he played against 'lesser' opponents.

 

[DevilsFanInFla]

As a guy who has to retire his Larsson jersey now, I can say this trade helps both teams. I loved Larsson and really think the kid is something high end. That said, he hasn't hit it yet and until he does, there is no guarantee he will. Hall is an amazing player and exactly what NJ needed. Larsson is what EDM needed. Is it an overpayment? In a vacuum yes but as others have said, trades can't be measured in a vacuum. I wish Larsson nothing but the best and I hope Edmonton does well as long as it isn't against us Please be nice to Larsson EDM and don't compare him to Hall He already got the bad end of the deal from our previous coach DeBoer and he took it like a pro. He will work his ass off for you guys and again, I hope he does very well.

 

[HenriquesJawLine]

This is 2015 and Klefbom STILL outplayed him. I think we've waited long enough.

You have no idea how to interpret these and are devaluing your new acquisition in the process

 

[Mr Positive]

btw Larsson looks better than Greene on those HERO charts. I'm not going to post it but I saw it earlier. They were together +80% of the time on the same team so that does say something. Larsson was far better in plus minus and points as well, so he clearly did well with Greene and even better away from him, which bodes well for us, especially if we're not going to bury him the way NJ did.

 

[Paralyzer]

You have no idea how to interpret these and are devaluing your new acquisition in the process

You keep thinking that. I know what I'm talking about and I go by the numbers. But this isn't a Greene Vs Klefbom in terms of whose better but those doubting Larsson can do better in Edmonton because Greene did all the work. That's my point. Klefbom can do what Greene can and more. If you fail to see that, I can't help you.

 

[snipes]

Loved the trade to get Larsson. He makes our team better and more balanced. Period.

I've enjoyed reading what Devils fans have said about the kid. The Devils are now my favourite team in the East and I'll cheer for them whenever they aren't playing the Oilers. I wish Hall nothing but the best. Hopefully we play for Lord Stanley one day.

Can't wait to see Klefbom and Larsson grow together. These two will be Oilers for a very long time.

 

[The Devil In I]

This is 2015 and Klefbom STILL outplayed him. I think we've waited long enough.

Oh, 2015, where he started in the O zone 58% of the time. Compared to Greene's 30% this year and 40% last year. Possession numbers without utilization for context, hilarious.

 

[Rebuilt]

Sure. They could have had Severson from the same team for the price of RNH, but they wanted someone they knew could anchor the top pairing and so they paid what it took to get it.

Larsson is a young top pairing RHD. Those are the most valuable asset in the league. I'm not surprised by what it took to get him out of NJ.

Yes, and Im sure the Devils would have forked over a 3rd rounder for Mc David too. You are too kind

Too bad the Oilers would never offer you RNH for Severson. Not even close. Eberle maybe.

But as for Larsson, Hall is worth more in a vaccum but not so much if Larsson reaches his potential. He really is a great young defender.

 

[GDDevils*]

Your the one not getting it. If Larsson did good with Greene, then Klefbom will help him even more. That's my point. Obviously you are thinking I'm stupid and I don't know what I am talking about but CLEARLY I do. I know EXACTLY what I am saying and I'll say it one last time. Charts don't lie. Numbers don't lie. Greene is a fine defender and I get that, but to say Larsson only succeeded because of Greene is absurd.

Do you get it now?

I get that you don't understand how to use that chart. You can ignore utilization and QOC if you want but most people understand that Klefbom wasn't a better player than Greene two years ago, or last year for that matter. Your chart only tells part of the story, and trying to draw the conclusion you are isn't possible with it. Feel free to continue to try but you don't actually have a valid argument.

 

[snipes]

Oh, 2015, where he started in the O zone 58% of the time. Compared to Greene's 30% this year and 40% last year. Possession numbers without utilization for context, hilarious.

If you go to HFOil and look at the Larsson thread and some of the other ones on HFOil, many Oiler fans have gave glowing reviews of Larsson. Variety of opinions exist. A few people went back and watched numerous hours of game tape and spoke glowingly of Larsson.

What stood out was his solid defensive positioning, and his first pass. This theme seems repeated, Larsson has an excellent first pass exiting the zone.

The Oilers have been lacking Dmen who could execute basic breakouts and get the puck up ice to our forwards in transition for years.

If Larsson is able to make that quick first pass to players like McDavid, RNH, Drai, etc. in stride he'll make our forwards better. His defensive responsibilities first approach will let Klefbom take risks and not overthink the game.

Larsson adds so much to our team. We've needed a Dman like him forever. He doesn't need to be an offensive catalyst #1. He'll be an excellent 1st pairing #2. We're a better team with Larsson.

 

[Draiskull]

so is this a Larsson thread or a Klefbom vs Greene showdown thread?

neither fan base is going to convince the other that they have the better Dman... Lets just leave it be and discuss Larsson.

Klefbom has been Oilers best Dman of late and Greene is pretty much the only good thing happening on Jersey's D.

 

[GDDevils*]

so is this a Larsson thread or a Klefbom vs Greene showdown thread?

neither fan base is going to convince the other that they have the better Dman... Lets just leave it be and discuss Larsson.

Klefbom has been Oilers best Dman of late and Greene is pretty much the only good thing happening on Jersey's D.

That not so subtle poke at the end is sure to settle things down.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

This is what is happening in this thread:

You're the donkey.

 

[Paralyzer]

so is this a Larsson thread or a Klefbom vs Greene showdown thread?

neither fan base is going to convince the other that they have the better Dman... Lets just leave it be and discuss Larsson.

Klefbom has been Oilers best Dman of late and Greene is pretty much the only good thing happening on Jersey's D.

Thank you. That's what I am going for! But people are reading this the WRONG WAY. Didn't know NJ fans were sensitive. Geez.

 

[Draiskull]

As a guy who has to retire his Larsson jersey now, I can say this trade helps both teams. I loved Larsson and really think the kid is something high end. That said, he hasn't hit it yet and until he does, there is no guarantee he will. Hall is an amazing player and exactly what NJ needed. Larsson is what EDM needed. Is it an overpayment? In a vacuum yes but as others have said, trades can't be measured in a vacuum. I wish Larsson nothing but the best and I hope Edmonton does well as long as it isn't against us Please be nice to Larsson EDM and don't compare him to Hall He already got the bad end of the deal from our previous coach DeBoer and he took it like a pro. He will work his ass off for you guys and again, I hope he does very well.

Thank you sir ..and enjoy Hall .. he is dynamite

That not so subtle poke at the end is sure to settle things down.

I take that back and say Severson will be good as well once he find his scoring touch at NHL level.