Player Discussion Adam Larsson Part IV

[McAsuno]

Or you know, he could be poking fun at the fact of being around for four lottery wins.

But naw lets twist those words into "woe is me".

Yeah, I agree.

In terms of the players though, winning solves everything. That's the bottom line. RNH and Eberle have been criticized heavily this year for their lack of scoring. If the oilers were losing to the ducks in the series, you would see those two especially get ripped upon for not scoring either. We can criticize Hall's game, character, etc.. but at the end of the day, the old boys club management ultimately failed to build a winning culture, nonetheless a culture that wasn't toxic. Taylor Hall didn't fail the Oilers. The old boys club management failed him, the team, and the fans.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

I wouldn't take Hall for free. No offence to the Hall fans here, but the guy does not play a team game and we've had the most cohesive team in a decade. Why mess around with it?

Because he's a top winger in the game?

The Oilers aren't some juggernaut that doesn't talented players. Winning teams like the Penguins take reject players from other franchises and turn them into champions. They're constantly retooling and improving.

He only didn't play a "team game" because we had no team structure and would be down in every single game. Generating offense takes risks, particularly if you have little support from your teammates.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

His tweet from yesterday may also be viewed by some in New Jersey management as a veiled shot at the team. I don't think he intended it that way. It's more of a "woe is me" statement.

Poor Taylor. Always being held back by management, his teammates, and other external factors beyond his control. Surely everybody must notice this.

He was a winner in junior and then had the misfortune of being drafted to one of the most dysfunctional franchises in league history. And then getting traded to one just starting a rebuild.

Well managed teams will take him at a discount and turn him into a champion, while losing teams will assume that correlation = causation.

 

[ChokeOnOil]

Bryan, Nuny, Soil- can we clean up all the Hall discussion?

I come into this thread expecting some solid comments on how amazing our shutdown guy has been this entire playoffs and instead I'm blasted with this discussion that's been beat to ****ing death 10000 times from every angle.

Keep it in the Hall thread, bump it, this **** is ****ing ridiculous boys.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Because he's a top winger in the game?

The Oilers aren't some juggernaut that doesn't talented players. Winning teams like the Penguins take reject players from other franchises and turn them into champions. They're constantly retooling and improving.

He only didn't play a "team game" because we had no team structure and would be down in every single game. Generating offense takes risks, particularly if you have little support from your teammates.

Is that what happened in Jersey then? Is that Hall's excuse their now also? They prided themselves on system and process and now with the subtraction of Larsson their structure went to the toilet?

Watched Hall this year again cost NJ a point in OT by "doing it all himself"

He wasn't a one man show on any of his lines. He just chose to be many nights

This excuse is complete rubbish. Hall had Ebs and RNH and Perrron and Hemsky here for points also.

PS: Why do people keep referring to him as a top winger? Top wingers get chosen to represent their countries especially when they are available and healthy. Hall getting passed over injury after injury should sound off some alarm bells...no?

 

[MessierII]

Because he's a top winger in the game?

No he's not. How is this level of homerism still persisting? The guy had a peak where he was between 2013-2014. He's a 60 point playmaking winger with injury issues not a "top winger in the game".

 

[The Bored Man]

Bryan, Nuny, Soil- can we clean up all the Hall discussion?

I come into this thread expecting some solid comments on how amazing our shutdown guy has been this entire playoffs and instead I'm blasted with this discussion that's been beat to ****ing death 10000 times from every angle.

Keep it in the Hall thread, bump it, this **** is ****ing ridiculous boys.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

We need a separate thread to discuss this. I don't get why people feel the need to drag Hall through the mud to praise Larsson.

No he's not. How is this level of homerism still persisting? The guy had a peak where he was between 2013-2014. He's a 60 point playmaking winger with injury issues not a "top winger in the game".

Name 10 left wingers that are better
You have to take into account teammates when looking at production

Is that what happened in Jersey then? Is that Hall's excuse their now also? They prided themselves on system and process and now with the subtraction of Larsson their structure went to the toilet?

Watched Hall this year again cost NJ a point in OT by "doing it all himself"

He wasn't a one man show on any of his lines. He just chose to be many nights

This excuse is complete rubbish. Hall had Ebs and RNH and Perrron and Hemsky here for points also.

PS: Why do people keep referring to him as a top winger? Top wingers get chosen to represent their countries especially when they are available and healthy. Hall getting passed over injury after injury should sound off some alarm bells...no?

NJ would need defensive help even with Larsson. Severson hasn't tracked they way they had hoped. NJ would've been garbage with or without Larsson.

When Hall had those guys or Draisaitl, he produced like a top winger in the game. His 5v5 ES production was elite

Hall not getting picked on Team Canada was purely due to a lack of team success in the playoffs. Giroux, Thornton, Subban, etc... have also been left off for far inferior players.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

What were you saying?

I get 'cool story' is a passive aggressive personal attack.

How about clarifying what you said instead of attacking? Your post adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

Are you slow?????

You asked me if I'm saying "xyz" & I clearly stated that I've never remotely said anything that could even be construed as that. How much clearer could that possibly be?

You clearly subscribe the "if you're not with me, you're against me" mentality which isn't the case at all.

 

[Game 8]

Bryan, Nuny, Soil- can we clean up all the Hall discussion?

I come into this thread expecting some solid comments on how amazing our shutdown guy has been this entire playoffs and instead I'm blasted with this discussion that's been beat to ****ing death 10000 times from every angle.

Keep it in the Hall thread, bump it, this **** is ****ing ridiculous boys.

I like your idea!

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Bryan, Nuny, Soil- can we clean up all the Hall discussion?

I come into this thread expecting some solid comments on how amazing our shutdown guy has been this entire playoffs and instead I'm blasted with this discussion that's been beat to ****ing death 10000 times from every angle.

Keep it in the Hall thread, bump it, this **** is ****ing ridiculous boys.

People wouldn't be mentioning Hall if people weren't claiming this as a lopsided win for the Oilers.

That's not true. The Oilers lost the trade in value because they gave up the better player in a one for one deal.

That said, I've been saying this all along, the Oilers traded for a need and traded from a surplus. As a team, the Oilers are improved but it's not solely because of the Larsson trade. That's a story that a lot of people are spinning here.

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

Ah yes, thanks, I remember that interview Ference did. He was clearly pointing fingers at at least one guy in particular. The comment about worst teammate ever, I just remembered was from someone who spoke to Ference while doing the November project work out with him. So I guess you can put that in the unsubstantiated rumor shelf (tho I believe it as I know the guy who said it and trust him). Here's an interesting article I came across pertaining to Ference and an interview he did a couple months ago.... one of his quotes....
"To see guys smiling, and just kind of that atmosphere of positivity, it’s really good. The atmosphere in the room had to change — beyond just losing. The vibe and just the attitude towards being a professional had to change, and that did. And Peter (Chiarelli) did that in Boston. He moved guys around that didn’t buy into the atmosphere that he wanted to create which he knows as a winner. And he did the same thing here… This year you’re obviously seeing a step in the right direction with the professionalism of the team, the battle, the way they’re playing on the ice, the way they’re acting in the city or down in the room… Just that culture, I can’t empathize it enough, how important it is to come into a room and to know that everybody has bought in and everybody is going to be there for each other"

pretty obvious who he's targeting. may be more than just Taylor but I would bet money it's mostly on Taylor.

here's the article: http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...ulture-of-pre-peter-chiarelli-edmonton-oilers

Sad but true story. It leaves me wondering how much of the blame for his stunted development is with Hall and how much with management, coaching and ex team mates. When you look back it was a cluster **** from day one. I suppose it's pretty sad that he is the focal point of most of the criticism but that's the way she goes...

 

[Panda Bear]

People wouldn't be mentioning Hall if people weren't claiming this as a lopsided win for the Oilers.

That's not true. The Oilers lost the trade in value because they gave up the better player in a one for one deal.

That said, I've been saying this all along, the Oilers traded for a need and traded from a surplus. As a team, the Oilers are improved but it's not solely because of the Larsson trade. That's a story that a lot of people are spinning here.

But is Hall the better player today?

Lots of value is in perception, and winning affects that.

Even with that said, I'm not sure if Hall is better than Larsson today. He definitely was a couple years ago, but Hall seems to have declined a bit and isn't trending up like Larsson

 

[Zaddy]

People wouldn't be mentioning Hall if people weren't claiming this as a lopsided win for the Oilers.

That's not true. The Oilers lost the trade in value because they gave up the better player in a one for one deal.

That said, I've been saying this all along, the Oilers traded for a need and traded from a surplus. As a team, the Oilers are improved but it's not solely because of the Larsson trade. That's a story that a lot of people are spinning here.

I think there was like one guy who claimed it was a fleecing for the Oilers. Let's not go overboard here.

Also, I'd argue that Larsson adds more value to a team than Hall does. If you're starting your team from scratch, who would you rather take? The shutdown top-pairing defenseman or the one-dimensional top-line winger? Which player helps your team win the most?

People said the Oilers lost the trade on value, but those people are the same ones who believed Larsson was a #3 or #4 defenseman at best and not a legit #2. Knowing what we know now, does Larsson not have equal or more value to Hall? You'll have a hard time convincing me that a top-line winger is more valuable than a top-pairing defenseman. Maybe others see it differently...

 

[grego]

Larsson has easily moved defenders and pucks away from highly probable goals many times this playoff run. He has been highly valuable to this team and without him it would require Talbot miracles nightly or high scoring games

 

[Tyrolean]

But is Hall the better player today?

Lots of value is in perception, and winning affects that.

Even with that said, I'm not sure if Hall is better than Larsson today. He definitely was a couple years ago, but Hall seems to have declined a bit and isn't trending up like Larsson

Once Hall gets better line mates. maybe from Nolan Patrick, he will trend back up.

 

[McShogun99]

After watching Larsson for an entire season and considering his age, cap hit and contract years remaining, there isn't very many players in the league I would trade him straight up for.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Once Hall gets better line mates. maybe from Nolan Patrick, he will trend back up.

I'm not certain Patrick goes first overall.

 

[Bank Shot]

After watching Larsson for an entire season and considering his age, cap hit and contract years remaining, there isn't very many players in the league I would trade him straight up for.

I'd trade him for at least 100 guys.

3-4 per team.

 

[McShogun99]

I'd trade him for at least 100 guys.

3-4 per team.

So every team has 3-4 players that are better then a 24 year old, top pairing, right shot defenceman with 4 years left on his deal at a 4.166 cap hit? This player is already one of the top shut down defence in the league. Is this Taylor Hall's secret HF account???

 

[Zguy370]

I'd trade him for at least 100 guys.

3-4 per team.

And now for something completely different!

 

[MoneyGuy]

I'd trade him for at least 100 guys.

3-4 per team.

Yeah right.

Not a chance.

 

[Bank Shot]

So every team has 3-4 players that are better then a 24 year old, top pairing, right shot defenceman with 4 years left on his deal at a 4.166 cap hit? This player is already one of the top shut down defence in the league. Is this Taylor Hall's secret HF account???

I would say so. Some teams like Nashville have 4 defencemen I'd trade Larsson for.

Larsson is a good player but not a great player. On the Oilers alone you've got Mcdavid, Draisaitl, and Klefbom that have more trade value.

Most teams have 3 great players.

 

[Panda Bear]

...Larsson is better defensively than anyone on Nashville's roster, and he's the best defenceman we have on our roster.

I understand taking Subban or Josi over him, but not Ellis or Ekholm...and I would love to have those two as our second pairing.

I'm sorry that you aren't able to see the value that he brings.

 

[MaxR11]

I would say so. Some teams like Nashville have 4 defencemen I'd trade Larsson for.

Larsson is a good player but not a great player. On the Oilers alone you've got Mcdavid, Draisaitl, and Klefbom that have more trade value.

Most teams have 3 great players.

You have to take into account the intangibles. Larsson fits well here. He's a round peg in a round hole here. Just because you trade him for a supposedly better player, it does not mean that player will fit nearly as well here nor be as effective as Larsson is here now. Too often people just look a player for player and their perceived talent. Intangibles, how well they fit with certain group of players and chemistry (a lot of the times) mean a whole lot more.