Player Discussion Adam Gaudette, Pt. II

[wavaxa2]

Before the Pits game, Gaudette has 4 goals? 3 on the pp and 1 of them was on a 6 on 5 delay Penalty. He didn't score a 5 on 5 goal until the 16th game in Pits.

Sure 6 on 5 count as an even strength and that's why I wrote down 5 on 5

Fair enough.

 

[Canucks1096]

Guy just keeps getting better n better and the haters just keep the hate a rolling

Keeper going, just keep those eyes closed and fingers in the ears bub

Very hard not to get better. He only had 12 P in his first 61 games. He can't get any worst.

5 on 5, it only took 16 games to socre his first goal. Just a friendly reminder

 

[Regal]

Very hard not to get better. He only had 12 P in his first 61 games. He can't get any worst.

5 on 5, it only took 16 games to socre his first goal. Just a friendly reminder

For the record, going back to your previous posts related to Sutter, Sutter had 2 goals and 4 points 5v5 last year in 26 games playing 12:29 5v5 minutes a night. Gaudette now has the same in 16 games playing 10:32 a night. Gaudette's current 1.42 P/60 5v5 is actually tied for Sutter's highest 5v5 scoring rate with the Canucks before this season. Sutter had a nice start this year but has historically been a poor 5v5 scorer. In his only full season with the Canucks in 16-17, he still only had 10 goals and 12 assists 5v5, and only 5 of those assists were primary. That's despite playing 13:34 a game, 6th highest on the team among regular forwards. In fact, among forwards who played 1000 minutes that year, he was 10th worst in the league in P/60. Gaudette hasn't shown a lot 5v5 yet this year, but I don't see how we lose anything offensively 5v5 with him in instead of Sutter. And Sutter certainly isn't improving at this point.

 

[vanuck]

Yeah, it's the potential to replace Sutter's mediocre 5v5 production at a cheaper cost that's what has me interested in following Gaudette's performance. Not to mention potentially superior PP performance as well.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Very hard not to get better. He only had 12 P in his first 61 games. He can't get any worst.

5 on 5, it only took 16 games to socre his first goal. Just a friendly reminder

Your "friendly reminders" are terrible.

Gaudette, in his role, filling in for what we've had, has been fine.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Very hard not to get better. He only had 12 P in his first 61 games. He can't get any worst.

5 on 5, it only took 16 games to socre his first goal. Just a friendly reminder

This isn't the worst. This is pretty typical. What are you even on about in this thread? I haven't read any sort of legitimate point against him other than his shooting percentage.

 

[NUhockey]

You decided to ignore the 10 to 15 guys before that. That is cherry picking, I have no clue what you are debating about. Facts are facts, once again I said 21 year old that win it don't do much in the nhl. That is true, look at the lists. It's like Pretend I said rookies don't usually score 100 points and then you reply with that it not true, Corsby and Ovechkin scored 100 points. So a handful got 100 points doesn't mean a lot rookie players score 100 points.

You have very unique way of debating. You kind of change the goal post. Yes Johnny G was third year but he was 20 year old. Vesey sure he is an nhl but he is still a no more third line player. He is not doing much in the nhl. I will give 1.5 out of 3.

You know I am right when I sad the 21 year old that win the Hoby Baker dont much so you decided the change the goal post.

Hey buddy I told you to show me an example. Give me at least a couple comparable Hobey Baker winners to Gaudette who "didn't do much" in the NHL.

 

[PavelBure10]

Big fan of this kid. His passion, and will to score is contagious. Also love his goal celebrations. If we had more players like Gaudette on the roster we'd be in good shape.

 

[Canucks1096]

For the record, going back to your previous posts related to Sutter, Sutter had 2 goals and 4 points 5v5 last year in 26 games playing 12:29 5v5 minutes a night. Gaudette now has the same in 16 games playing 10:32 a night. Gaudette's current 1.42 P/60 5v5 is actually tied for Sutter's highest 5v5 scoring rate with the Canucks before this season. Sutter had a nice start this year but has historically been a poor 5v5 scorer. In his only full season with the Canucks in 16-17, he still only had 10 goals and 12 assists 5v5, and only 5 of those assists were primary. That's despite playing 13:34 a game, 6th highest on the team among regular forwards. In fact, among forwards who played 1000 minutes that year, he was 10th worst in the league in P/60. Gaudette hasn't shown a lot 5v5 yet this year, but I don't see how we lose anything offensively 5v5 with him in instead of Sutter. And Sutter certainly isn't improving at this point.

The main argument on this thread is Gaudette is a better player than Sutter at 5 on 5 already. Your argument right now is p/60, let me ask you this, if points p/60 was so accurate. How come Sutter p/60 is a lot better this year than last year while playing less minutes? Shouldn't less minutes = less points? No it doesn't because p/60 doesn't take anything in context. Lot of Dzone starts and playing shut down role is going to impact your points. To prove my point Sutter is not a shut down role and is ranked 106 in even p/60. Hugh improvement.

So far this year Sutter has 2.33 p/60 and Gaudette 1.71 p/60 and 7 or 8 points vs 4 points for Gaudette. Both are not in a shut down role but Sutter has more Dzone starts and also Gaudette had sometime with Miller and Horvat as well. If you add in Sutter better defensively and faceoffs that Gaudette. Gaudette has not proven to be better than Sutter in the third line center spot.

You are one of the more knowledgeable user on this forum. I agree with a lot of your posts from other threads. If someone can convince me than Gaudette is a better 5 on 5 than Sutter. It's probably you but you didn't yet.

Fyi. That being said Gaudette still should be in the lineup. Not as a third line center

 

[4Twenty]

I think all 1096 is trying to say is that Gaudette isn't established yet, and overall as a 3C, Sutter provides a better chance of winning. I don't really disagree. I'm quite pleased with Gaudette's production this season, I like that he shoots and looks to shoot. I agree he should be in the lineup with Sutter healthy, but I don't really care what you call it, whether it's 3rd line or 4th line, Gaudette should be playing C....heck, give him Sutter as a winger to help develop his game.

I'm not a fan of Sutter and find the team much more likeable when he's out of the lineup, but he is an important piece and is an NHL player who can contribute to winning. He just makes too much and when healthy gets played too much.

I'd rather have Sutter than Beagle (even though Beagle is more likeable) because Sutter is a better overall player and has more utility. It'll be interesting to see how the lineup shakes out when the injured veterans become healthy.

 

[Canucks1096]

This isn't the worst. This is pretty typical. What are you even on about in this thread? I haven't read any sort of legitimate point against him other than his shooting percentage.

Gaudette has 5 ppp on the 2nd unit and is on pace for 22 ppp. Do you think he can keep up that pace? Canucks probably don't even get 17 more ppg this season from the 2nd unit. It probably take 20 to 30 games this season before the 2nd unit even score another 5 ppg

You can't argue the fact that Gaudette has a lot of puck luck. His second and third points of the season because he made bad passes and the puck hit a skate and went in. His first point of the season he got backchecked off the puck and manage to get an assist from that. Your puck luck will run out.

Combined with his shooting percentage.

I think it fair to say this streak is just a hot streak for Gaudette. It won't be close to sustainable at all

Lot of fans here are Virtanen fans as well. Friendly reminder, do you remember some people were saying last year about Virtanen shooting percentage and puck luck is not sustainable and they were right.

 

[Bankerguy]

I like Gaudette, I think he looks great on the wing but it makes more sense to get him used to playing center since he's the logical 3C behind Horvat and Pettersson once Sutter and Beagle retires

For now, i'd like to see them try this lineup when healthy:
Miller Pettersson Gaudette
Pearson Horvat Boeser
Ferland Sutter Virtanen
Roussel Beagle Leivo

I think that lineup makes the most sense with what we have. It would be really nice to upgrade the 2LW spot but thats what we have for now..

 

[Regal]

The main argument on this thread is Gaudette is a better player than Sutter at 5 on 5 already. Your argument right now is p/60, let me ask you this, if points p/60 was so accurate. How come Sutter p/60 is a lot better this year than last year while playing less minutes? Shouldn't less minutes = less points? No it doesn't because p/60 doesn't take anything in context. Lot of Dzone starts and playing shut down role is going to impact your points. To prove my point Sutter is not a shut down role and is ranked 106 in even p/60. Hugh improvement.

So far this year Sutter has 2.33 p/60 and Gaudette 1.71 p/60 and 7 or 8 points vs 4 points for Gaudette. Both are not in a shut down role but Sutter has more Dzone starts and also Gaudette had sometime with Miller and Horvat as well. If you add in Sutter better defensively and faceoffs that Gaudette. Gaudette has not proven to be better than Sutter in the third line center spot.

You are one of the more knowledgeable user on this forum. I agree with a lot of your posts from other threads. If someone can convince me than Gaudette is a better 5 on 5 than Sutter. It's probably you but you didn't yet.

Fyi. That being said Gaudette still should be in the lineup. Not as a third line center

P/60 has it's problems but the main reason Sutter's numbers are high this year is simple variance over a small sample. He played well to start no doubt but the whole team was clicking before he went down as well, and we have years of data that shows it's very unlikely to continue.

I'm not so much arguing that Gaudette is better right now 5v5, simply that I don't think we have the data to know yet. You pointed out how long it took him to score his first 5v5 goal, but the problem is that players of this quality don't score much so sometimes there's slumps and spikes. Sutter has historically scored so low though that it's not a high bar to pass, and Gaudette has shown nifty hands and, like Sutter, a good ability to jump on loose pucks around the net to score. From what I've seen, I think he uses his linemates better than Sutter as well. We'll see what he does going forward, but I think he can at least match Sutter offensively going forward. I do think Sutter is a better all around player right now due to his defense.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

I don't think many are saying this year that Gaudette > Sutter.

The key being, this year.

Hated Sutter since the day we traded for him, however, his play this year has been that of a good third line player.

Prior to this year, I would say Gaudette > Sutter.

Gaudette is a developing third liner that should be isolated with some consistent and experienced line-mates.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Gaudette will surpass Bo in the depth chart by the end of this season
Mark my word

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Gaudette will surpass Bo in the depth chart by the end of this season
Mark my word

That's bold. I mean, making that claim against Sutter at his best seems like a more realistic expectation, but love the optimism.

Which word do I mark ? I ... I panicked and marked "depth".

 

[VanJack]

Not sure why some posters keep comparing Gaudette and Sutter......Sutter basically has missed most of the last two seasons, and wasn't anything special when he was in the lineup....might have been injury-related, but who knows?

Gaudette's current production underscores how ludicrous it was to staple him to the pressbox for so many games early in the season. If he'd played night in and night out, just think of how much further ahead he'd be right now. Maybe even his faceoff percentage might have improved. And if it hadn't they could have played Sutter on his wing, and he could have taken the draws.

Sometimes I'm convinced that Green's lineup decisions are as poor as Willie's ever were.

 

[Canucks1096]

Not sure why some posters keep comparing Gaudette and Sutter......Sutter basically has missed most of the last two seasons, and wasn't anything special when he was in the lineup....might have been injury-related, but who knows?

Gaudette's current production underscores how ludicrous it was to staple him to the pressbox for so many games early in the season. If he'd played night in and night out, just think of how much further ahead he'd be right now. Maybe even his faceoff percentage might have improved. And if it hadn't they could have played Sutter on his wing, and he could have taken the draws.

Sometimes I'm convinced that Green's lineup decisions are as poor as Willie's ever were.

Sutter

2017/2018 5th on the team in even strength points and was playing a shutdown role and started a lot dzone faceoffs? Also led the team with a +8

2018/2019 due to injuries he wasn't great except for the pk. Led the team 2.24 ga per 60

2019/2020 so far third in es p/60 and first in es g/60

If you lead the team in something. I think it's to safe to say Sutter he is valuable to the Canucks.

The Pits game. 2 GA was directly resulted in Gaudette losing faceoffs in the Dzone.

5 on 5, defensively, pk, faceoffs, these areas Gaudette is not better. That is a fact. He is not ready to replace Sutter as a third line center. Look at the ice time that Green gives Horvat without Sutter and Gaudette because he doesn't trust Gaudette.

This is similar to Virtanen last year. Virtanen points was up mainly because of empty points and not 5 on 5. Gaudette points is up because of the pp which I will still give him credit for, but his 5 on 5 production, he is only few points higher than last year pace.

I am not sure where do you find to this stat. Canucks record with and without Sutter. It's going to be a big difference. Canucks 2 and 5 since Sutter gone down and allowed 29 goals.

 

[Canucks1096]

Gaudette will surpass Bo in the depth chart by the end of this season
Mark my word

You will be 100% wrong. Mark my word. Green doesn't completely trust Gaudette 5 on 5 and yet by end of season Green will trust Gaudette to replace Horvat. You are 100% out to lunch

 

[M2Beezy]

Gaudette will surpass Bo in the depth chart by the end of this season
Mark my word

This reminds me of a post I would have made like two years ago lol

 

[VanJack]

You will be 100% wrong. Mark my word. Green doesn't completely trust Gaudette 5 on 5 and yet by end of season Green will trust Gaudette to replace Horvat. You are 100% out to lunch

I know where the previous poster Billy Kvcmu is coming from.

Obviously Horvat is a better 180-foot player, a beast in the circle and a force down low on the forecheck, and as a net-front presence on the pp. But I worry about Horvat's offensive instincts sometimes. He doesn't tend to make the wingers who play with him better, and for a supposedly second-line center, he goes through worrying dry-spells. It's especially noticeable five-on-five, but then Green is riding him like a broken-down nag so maybe fatigue is a factor.

But I think you can make a strong case that Gaudette has better offensive instincts than Bo, and definitely has a better shot. He also has the ability to gain the blueline and get his wingers involved in the play.

So if he ever figures out the faceoff dot and the defensive zone responsibilities, yes, I could see him surpassing Bo on the depth chart as a scoring, second line center. It's not as outlandish as it might seem.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

This reminds me of a post I would have made like two years ago lol

You made that statement before he played a single pro game....

 

[M2Beezy]

You made that statement before he played a single pro game....

Both statements were ridiculous. Difference is mine was 2 years ago, yours was today

 

[Canucks1096]

I know where the previous poster Billy Kvcmu is coming from.

Obviously Horvat is a better 180-foot player, a beast in the circle and a force down low on the forecheck, and as a net-front presence on the pp. But I worry about Horvat's offensive instincts sometimes. He doesn't tend to make the wingers who play with him better, and for a supposedly second-line center, he goes through worrying dry-spells. It's especially noticeable five-on-five, but then Green is riding him like a broken-down nag so maybe fatigue is a factor.

But I think you can make a strong case that Gaudette has better offensive instincts than Bo, and definitely has a better shot. He also has the ability to gain the blueline and get his wingers involved in the play.

So if he ever figures out the faceoff dot and the defensive zone responsibilities, yes, I could see him surpassing Bo on the depth chart as a scoring, second line center. It's not as outlandish as it might seem.

Horvat can play the fast pace nhl game and make quick decision with the puck. He doesn't get check off the puck easily because of his speed and strength.

Gaudette does have a better shot however he still struggle with the fast pace nhl game. He get checked off the puck so easily, his decision making and passing is horrible, I recall so many times Gaudette just passes the puck into someone skate, Gaudette just has 1 primary assist at even strength this year and that was off of Sutter skate.
Sonetimes Gaudette sbot is elite and sometime his shot is horrible. That's because he needs the extra time space and to let go his shot. Even strength most of time he doesn't have much time and space and he is not creating it. That is the reason he doesn't have a lot shots. Do you see Gaudette having a good chance off the rush? No, have you ever seen Gaudette make a backhand pass to set up a goal like what Horvat did today, No?

Regardless of skill he has, if He can't keep up nhl pace and and quick decision with the puck. He will never become a top 6 F.

Let's not forget, he is 23 already, he is no spring chicken

 

[vanuck]

Up to 13 points in 19 games now.

Would still like to see him given an extended look on Horvat's wing at some point, and he needs to get better in his own end but at least he's producing for now. Good to see.