Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXXI -- Will we even care by July 1?

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CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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Why do they need to rebuild and not be competitive next season? The margin between winning and losing is razor-thin and in large part came down to a poor goaltending performance from Holtby vs. a good one from Fleury. They have a very good 1/2 combination down the middle, a good top 3/4 on defense, and a goalie who is normally very reliable. I agree changes need to be made (Trotz probably should be fired and Carlson either needs to be re-signed or traded) but that doesn't mean you need to blow it up and start from scratch. Just because that happens to coincide with it making Ted more money doesn't mean it's not the best decision.

I'm just not seeing what more you would have wanted from Ted, especially over the past 3 seasons in particular. He's marketed and sold his stars because his stars have been excellent players and contributed a ton towards producing a winning team. It sucks that they haven't put it together all at once in the playoffs but I guess where you and I differ is that I accept that there is a lot of inherent randomness in hockey whereas you think there has to be a reason and someone to blame for everything. You need to position yourself as a contender as much as possible and the Capitals have done so.

It's god damned comical that at the end of the day, you, the most well known "stats first" guy around the Caps board, just eventually shrugs his shoulders and says "it comes down to (luck) inherent randomness". Giant irony in effect. From now on I'll file your posts with their individual accompanying grains of salt Twabby. Keep fighting the good fight brother. :laugh:
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
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Why do they need to rebuild and not be competitive next season? The margin between winning and losing is razor-thin and in large part came down to a poor goaltending performance from Holtby vs. a good one from Fleury. They have a very good 1/2 combination down the middle, a good top 3/4 on defense, and a goalie who is normally very reliable. I agree changes need to be made (Trotz probably should be fired and Carlson either needs to be re-signed or traded) but that doesn't mean you need to blow it up and start from scratch. Just because that happens to coincide with it making Ted more money doesn't mean it's not the best decision.

I'm just not seeing what more you would have wanted from Ted, especially over the past 3 seasons in particular. He's marketed and sold his stars because his stars have been excellent players and contributed a ton towards producing a winning team. It sucks that they haven't put it together all at once in the playoffs but I guess where you and I differ is that I accept that there is a lot of inherent randomness in hockey whereas you think there has to be a reason and someone to blame for everything. You need to position yourself as a contender as much as possible and the Capitals have done so.
Fail so repeatedly and it's probably more than just randomness, no? How many more results do we need? Margins are razor thin but they're even thinner when the mentality is to expect long, hard fought battles against every opponent. If the coach doesn't have an understanding of team strengths that can be exploited and constantly seeks them that's a huge missed opportunity when it comes to positioning the team for consistent high-level success. All of the best coaches have that level of self-awareness and intensity. Not every match-up lines up conveniently or goes to expectations but for it to be universally glossed over is unacceptable and goes to show Trotz's limitations. He just rolls lines as much as he's able to get away with and hopes to win the long game of attrition. I don't think they necessarily have the grit for some aspects of gamesmanship and playoff success but he's the one that sets the tone in how easy it's going to be and the games within the game. He lets them get away with a lot of softness in the regular season because they're able to win in spite of it. Their identity turns to mush in the playoffs and it goes to show that beyond preaching work ethic and structure there isn't a coherent identity priming them toward performing when it matters. They need to get a lot heavier again if he's staying put yet it's likely to remain come up short once again if it's still not predominantly about making plays. That needs to be said every year.

They don't have to rebuild but there is a weight and baggage added after year after year of coming up short. The players don't have answers so...who does? Ownership on down can't just shrug or laugh that question off. That's really the only question and if outside input is needed so be it. When outcomes are consistently short of expectations there should be consequences. Accountability matters. There remains a lot this team can control that they refuse to do. That and seeking answers are why changes should be made beyond personnel tweaking. If you're all-in organizationally that need for answers should drive everything else...even if they ultimately force tough decisions. If that's not their collective mindset then they're not really motivated to improve.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
64,726
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Fail so repeatedly and it's probably more than just randomness, no? How many more results do we need? Margins are razor thin but they're even thinner when the mentality is to expect long, hard fought battles against every opponent. If the coach doesn't have an understanding of team strengths that can be exploited and constantly seeks them that's a huge missed opportunity when it comes to positioning the team for consistent high-level success. All of the best coaches have that level of self-awareness and intensity. Not every match-up lines up conveniently or goes to expectations but for it to be universally glossed over is unacceptable and goes to show Trotz's limitations. He just rolls lines as much as he's able to get away with and hopes to win the long game of attrition. I don't think they necessarily have the grit for some aspects of gamesmanship and playoff success but he's the one that sets the tone in how easy it's going to be and the games within the game. He lets them get away with a lot of softness in the regular season because they're able to win in spite of it. Their identity turns to mush in the playoffs and it goes to show that beyond preaching work ethic and structure there isn't a coherent identity priming them toward performing when it matters. They need to get a lot heavier again if he's staying put yet it's likely to remain come up short once again if it's still not predominantly about making plays. That needs to be said every year.

They don't have to rebuild but there is a weight and baggage added after year after year of coming up short. The players don't have answers so...who does? Ownership on down can't just shrug or laugh that question off. That's really the only question and if outside input is needed so be it. When outcomes are consistently short of expectations there should be consequences. Accountability matters. There remains a lot this team can control that they refuse to do. That and seeking answers are why changes should be made beyond personnel tweaking. If you're all-in organizationally that need for answers should drive everything else...even if they ultimately force tough decisions. If that's not their collective mindset then they're not really motivated to improve.

I think you want what many of us want. Where's our Scotty Bowman to run/craft this thing right?

Sadly, I think ownership keep tinkering every year as long as fans are filling the seats. Ted wants to win, but sustainable profitability is his first priority, not winning at all costs.

Trotz is a fine coach, certainly a top-10 guy in the league. The issues may be larger than any coach we bring in, or so it's sure starting to feel like with the parade of coaches the last 10 years. Only a handful of constants the last 5-8 years...
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
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I love that 2 is dissatisfied overall but if he's got beef with anyone in the locker room that's probably going to be a problem going forward.
 

g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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I know some will hate this idea but what about Tom Wilson for captain? There's a guy who will run through walls and give up his body to get the job done. He seems like the kind of guy others would follow into Hell if he led the charge and that's what you want from a leader. He doesn't skip practices that I'm aware of and it would also force the refs to acknowledge him as the team rep instead of just tossing him in the box every time he gets hugged.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
64,726
19,590
I love that 2 is dissatisfied overall but if he's got beef with anyone in the locker room that's probably going to be a problem going forward.

If anyone on this team deserves a chance to tell it like it is, it's your best D the last 2-3 years.


I like it. I think there's something rotten....needs to be rooted out.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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I know some will hate this idea but what about Tom Wilson for captain? There's a guy who will run through walls and give up his body to get the job done. He seems like the kind of guy others would follow into Hell if he led the charge and that's what you want from a leader. He doesn't skip practices that I'm aware of and it would also force the refs to acknowledge him as the team rep instead of just tossing him in the box every time he gets hugged.

He's one of the few that I could get behind....
 

Jacoby4HOF66

Pull my finger
Mar 13, 2009
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I know some will hate this idea but what about Tom Wilson for captain? There's a guy who will run through walls and give up his body to get the job done. He seems like the kind of guy others would follow into Hell if he led the charge and that's what you want from a leader. He doesn't skip practices that I'm aware of and it would also force the refs to acknowledge him as the team rep instead of just tossing him in the box every time he gets hugged.

If he was maybe 5 years older I would agree, but right now I have to think OV would take that as an insult. Or if he didn't take it as an insult the turds like Cherry would rub it in OV's face. 23 year old "good Canadian boy" takes "C" from lazy Russian.

In this situation, if he is resigned, I'd give the "C" to Oshie. He has all the characteristics that you listed of Wilson, but he is older, wiser and would be a better, more acceptable, transition away from OV.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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If I was deciding to take the C from Ovy, I'd go to a 3A system next year with him being one, rotate the other two, and promote a C prior to regular season 2018-2019. IF I decided to make the big move.

Should motivate Ovy to come more dedicated and allow others to strive for it through hard work and dedication. Who knows, maybe Ovy responds and he gets the C back in a year?
 

twabby

Registered User
Mar 9, 2010
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Fail so repeatedly and it's probably more than just randomness, no? How many more results do we need?

No, it's not just randomness. But to deny a large random element inherent to the NHL postseason is just being disingenuous. Given the salary cap and other limitations a perfect team just can't be achieved. I think ownership has done a good job of identifying elements needed in order to win. Just because the outputs haven't been good in the playoffs doesn't mean that the inputs have been bad. We can split hairs about the exact level of effectiveness of this ownership group but to say they are failures or don't really care about winning seems like a huge leap.

Margins are razor thin but they're even thinner when the mentality is to expect long, hard fought battles against every opponent. If the coach doesn't have an understanding of team strengths that can be exploited and constantly seeks them that's a huge missed opportunity when it comes to positioning the team for consistent high-level success. All of the best coaches have that level of self-awareness and intensity. Not every match-up lines up conveniently or goes to expectations but for it to be universally glossed over is unacceptable and goes to show Trotz's limitations. He just rolls lines as much as he's able to get away with and hopes to win the long game of attrition. I don't think they necessarily have the grit for some aspects of gamesmanship and playoff success but he's the one that sets the tone in how easy it's going to be and the games within the game. He lets them get away with a lot of softness in the regular season because they're able to win in spite of it. Their identity turns to mush in the playoffs and it goes to show that beyond preaching work ethic and structure there isn't a coherent identity priming them toward performing when it matters. They need to get a lot heavier again if he's staying put yet it's likely to remain come up short once again if it's still not predominantly about making plays. That needs to be said every year.

I agree with your assessment of Trotz and I think he needs to go. But I don't think Trotz's shortcomings are a reflection of some catastrophic failure on ownership's part.

They don't have to rebuild but there is a weight and baggage added after year after year of coming up short. The players don't have answers so...who does? Ownership on down can't just shrug or laugh that question off. That's really the only question and if outside input is needed so be it. When outcomes are consistently short of expectations there should be consequences. Accountability matters. There remains a lot this team can control that they refuse to do. That and seeking answers are why changes should be made beyond personnel tweaking. If you're all-in organizationally that need for answers should drive everything else...even if they ultimately force tough decisions. If that's not their collective mindset then they're not really motivated to improve.

Again you seem to be assuming they aren't being accountable and they aren't asking the tough questions and trying to answer them with potentially tough decisions. What would you have them do?
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
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If he was maybe 5 years older I would agree, but right now I have to think OV would take that as an insult. Or if he didn't take it as an insult the turds like Cherry would rub it in OV's face. 23 year old "good Canadian boy" takes "C" from lazy Russian.

In this situation, if he is resigned, I'd give the "C" to Oshie. He has all the characteristics that you listed of Wilson, but he is older, wiser and would be a better, more acceptable, transition away from OV.

I really like Oshie as a player and a person but I don't think he's much better than Ovechkin as an inspirational blood and guts type of captain. I see Oshie as a guy that kind of spaces out at times and just goes with the flow of the game, which is perfect for his style of play. I wouldn't want to mess with it. Wilson seems like someone who's more likely to be taking numbers and paying attention to everything that happens which can be critical in gauging the mood and needs of the team.
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
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If I was deciding to take the C from Ovy, I'd go to a 3A system next year with him being one, rotate the other two, and promote a C prior to regular season 2018-2019. IF I decided to make the big move.

Should motivate Ovy to come more dedicated and allow others to strive for it through hard work and dedication. Who knows, maybe Ovy responds and he gets the C back in a year?

That's a good thought but I'm wary of any kind of committee thinking/dynamic on a team that has trouble with leadership. Three guys with As can just as easily all defer to each other or just let things die in limbo. Someone needs to be the shot-caller, imo.

Maybe rotate the C every week so every player has it at least once and feels what it's like to be the leader, aka someone the other guys are depending on.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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19,590
I'd go to every single GM in the league, take him to a great dinner and say "here are our rosters and top prospects, here are yours. Hypothetically let's make a big trade and see what we can come up with".

No player would be off the table. Let the GM's make a pitch for anyone they want. I'd seriously explore making a significant move to shake and refocus the team, while also bringing in a good player or two to infuse fresh blood.
 
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twabby

Registered User
Mar 9, 2010
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It's god damned comical that at the end of the day, you, the most well known "stats first" guy around the Caps board, just eventually shrugs his shoulders and says "it comes down to (luck) inherent randomness". Giant irony in effect. From now on I'll file your posts with their individual accompanying grains of salt Twabby. Keep fighting the good fight brother. :laugh:

That's not what I said at all but I guess you do what you do.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
64,726
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That's a good thought but I'm wary of any kind of committee thinking/dynamic on a team that has trouble with leadership. Three guys with As can just as easily all defer to each other or just let things die in limbo. Someone needs to be the shot-caller, imo.

Maybe rotate the C every week so every player has it at least once and feels what it's like to be the leader, aka someone the other guys are depending on.

I'm thinking of it from the perspective that you're showing Ovy a chance to save some dignity, all the while trying to motivate him and the others. For one, there's nobody I love to take the C right now from him. Two, I think immediately promoting someone else will feel like a slap in the face. I like the idea that he could really rededicate himself and come roaring back equally as I like the idea of someone new like 2, 77, 43 maybe....
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
32,433
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I know some will hate this idea but what about Tom Wilson for captain? There's a guy who will run through walls and give up his body to get the job done. He seems like the kind of guy others would follow into Hell if he led the charge and that's what you want from a leader. He doesn't skip practices that I'm aware of and it would also force the refs to acknowledge him as the team rep instead of just tossing him in the box every time he gets hugged.
I don't think it's worth stripping Ovechkin to give it to a player who doesn't completely define everything they want in a player. Wilson competes but he still doesn't make nearly enough plays. The more interesting move would be Backstrom to see whether that forces him to become a more outspoken leader but I don't think it's worth the controversy. I'd just concentrate on adding someone like Hartley behind the bench or a real GM and let player leadership sort itself out.
I agree with your assessment of Trotz and I think he needs to go. But I don't think Trotz's shortcomings are a reflection of some catastrophic failure on ownership's part.
Trotz's lack of playoff success was well known and there's also a general organizational laziness he was supposed to change that still hasn't been addressed. He was essentially ownership's hire and that's nothing new when it comes to coaches. They're gullible and don't appear to be able to distinguish between BS and the real thing. That's a huge problem in identifying capable leadership. That filters all the way down.
Again you seem to be assuming they aren't being accountable and they aren't asking the tough questions and trying to answer them with potentially tough decisions. What would you have them do?
I'd have ownership hire a consultant to review practices and suggest improvements. There are many that could be made, it's more a matter of opening themselves and everyone below them to review and criticism. That was something they were supposedly getting with MacLellan but for me it's always sounded like a dog-and-pony show. "Tough" talk but the basic setup remains the same.

Outside of developmental strides made largely thanks to Reirden and Korn I'm not sure they've made enough progress internally and both could be gone this summer anyway. For me there's great potential in management turnover or at least significantly beefing up the front office and making a change behind the bench. There's no cap on management so if Leonsis is truly invested in their improvement he should focus there most of all. They've often skimped in that area it seems and that's a problem.
 

RandyHolt

Keep truckin'
Nov 3, 2006
34,812
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If we get a new coach this summer, that is the time to strip the C, and have him say he will decide who the captain is. Suggest maybe rolling the triple A's and its done, all during the off season when only Canada cares. Not let his predecessors previous players dictate his captain. If I recall, players long ago chose Ovi - what - a decade ago??

A new coach has his own vision of what a captain should be, and is limited from day 1 forced by the fear of the unknown by accepting welp Ovi is the C and that's that.

Keeping him at C certainly hasn't made a bit of difference. What incentive does he have to do anything different if he is captain no matter how much effort he gives? It seems to make him more and more lethargic, not more motivated to lead by example.
 

Nice

Registered User
Jan 26, 2016
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I think Nisky would be a good fit for the C, even if it's temporary. I seriously don't see Ted being on board with taking the C off Ovi though.
 

Jacoby4HOF66

Pull my finger
Mar 13, 2009
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I think Nisky would be a good fit for the C, even if it's temporary. I seriously don't see Ted being on board with taking the C off Ovi though.

Yeah. Ted would need to get a new OV jersey to wear to a game. Can't have that.
 
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