Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXXI -- Will we even care by July 1?

[rvdnsx]

Ranger fan here, since Ovechkin trade is being talked about was interested in a fair trade with you guys for him, how about:

JT Miller
Kevin Hayes
Sean Day
1st Rounder
3rd Rounder

 

[twabby]

I have no idea who Sean Day is but I'd probably do that trade.

 

[Acallabeth]

Ranger fan here, since Ovechkin trade is being talked about was interested in a fair trade with you guys for him, how about:

JT Miller
Kevin Hayes
Sean Day
1st Rounder
3rd Rounder

What an amazing proposal! So many playoff goals these players you're giving us combined for! Wow! And that 3rd rounder, you are really generous!

 

[rvdnsx]

What an amazing proposal! So many playoff goals these players you're giving us combined for! Wow! And that 3rd rounder, you are really generous!

You don't need playoff goals! You had Mr. Game 7!!! Just wanted to get an idea of what it would take, shoot back a counter proposal.

 

[rvdnsx]

I have no idea who Sean Day is but I'd probably do that trade.

Our 3rd round pick in 2016, was projected as a potential 1st Rounder originally but I believe an injury and a subpar season leading up to the draft dropped him.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Can anyone post a list of players in any sport that were stripped of their captaincy while still a core player on their team, who remained with the team?

Vinny won the Cup a couple years after losing the C.

 

[Roughing]

Ranger fan here, since Ovechkin trade is being talked about was interested in a fair trade with you guys for him, how about:

JT Miller
Kevin Hayes
Sean Day
1st Rounder
3rd Rounder

All day. Let me know where you want Ov dropped off.

 

[rvdnsx]

All day. Let me know where you want Ov dropped off.

How about 33rd and 6th in NYC?

 

[The Instigator]

Can anyone post a list of players in any sport that were stripped of their captaincy while still a core player on their team, who remained with the team?

Just a few in the NHL are:
Patrick Marleau
Joe Thornton
Vincent Lecavalier
Brett Hull
Eric Lindros
Patrik Elias
Trevor Linden
Roberto Luongo (lol)

 

[rvdnsx]

Just a few in the NHL are:
Patrick Marleau
Joe Thornton
Vincent Lecavalier
Brett Hull
Eric Lindros
Patrik Elias
Trevor Linden
Roberto Luongo (lol)

Wasn't really stripped but Brain Leetch relinquished his captaincy when Messier returned to NY Rangers during the dark ages.

 

[Devil Dancer]

And I laugh at this "hypothesis" some have (not you) of captaincy/leadership being meaningless. Anyone who's been on good teams at high levels will tell you both matter.

So no, you don't have any quantifiable evidence, just your limited personal experience.

And I never said leadership doesn't matter, I think it does. It just doesn't have to exclusively come from the C or the As. It should mostly flow from the coaching staff.

I have a hard time believing that 2009 Sidney Crosby, who was known league wide as an immature whiner, powered the Pens to the Cup through the magic of wearing the C.

 

[g00n]

So no, you don't have any quantifiable evidence, just your limited personal experience.

And I never said leadership doesn't matter, I think it does. It just doesn't have to exclusively come from the C or the As. It should mostly flow from the coaching staff.

I have a hard time believing that 2009 Sidney Crosby, who was known league wide as an immature whiner, powered the Pens to the Cup through the magic of wearing the C.

Quantifiable evidence? This isn't a trial or some sophomoric internet economics debate. It's more about experience, psychology, and relationships than plotted numbers or bloody gloves. You can try to undermine my authority on the matter but that doesn't change how the world works, or how the human brain works. Seek out other sources if you want to invest the kind of time in these studies that I have over the last 30+ years.

The 2009 Pens had some veteran leadership to go along with young talent, iirc. Where is your "quantifiable evidence" that Crosby was a bad captain and had no effect on that 2009 team?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Quantifiable.....lol.

 

[hockeyfan88]

I have no idea who Sean Day is but I'd probably do that trade.

He was once considered a top 5 talent in the draft but his stock fell off the cliff because of character concerns and supposed laziness. NYR got him in the 3rd round when they didn't have the 1st and 2nd round picks a few years ago if I'm not mistaken.

He has size and talent, but many people questioned his determination to improve his game and become one of the very best. He has the tools, though.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

I have no idea who Sean Day is but I'd probably do that trade.

Might be the ultimate "all tools no toolbox" guy.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Sean Day was one of the "exceptional status" prospects that got into the CHL early (like Tavares, Ekblad, McDavid, etc), but never really amounted to anything special. Could be a decent defenseman probably but nowhere near the pedigree of the guys I mentioned above.

 

[RandyHolt]

Can anyone post a list of players in any sport that were stripped of their captaincy while still a core player on their team, who remained with the team?

Can anyone post a list of teams that have had their leagues premier scorer for ~10 years yet could never get to their conference finals under their captaincy, all through the prime years, with the GM spending to the max almost every one of those years?

I don't know why its frowned upon for a new coach to choose his own captain. We have a coaching and player carousel happening here, and few things have remained constant aside from our annual early playoff exit.

 

[um]

Ranger fan here, since Ovechkin trade is being talked about was interested in a fair trade with you guys for him, how about:

JT Miller
Kevin Hayes
Sean Day
1st Rounder
3rd Rounder

Hell yes, Rangers are probably overpaying though.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Caps should let Williams and Alzner walk (unless Alzner takes a huge hometown discount). If they manage to do that, AND somehow manage to dump Orpik/trade him to Vegas, I can see them contend again next season.

They were the second best team in the playoffs this year, from what I saw, and outplayed the Pens in 5 of 7 games.

 

[txpd]

Vinny won the Cup a couple years after losing the C.

That's good. A list of one. Vinny was the only player to ever do that. Be stripped of the C and then win a cup with the same team. He was also 19 years old when to started as Captain and 21 when he had it removed.

 

[txpd]

I can see them contend again next season.

They were the second best team in the playoffs this year, from what I saw, and outplayed the Pens in 5 of 7 games.

you realize that is all beside the point. right?

 

[M1K3]

I wonder if this year's expansion draft might actually be a blessing in disguise?

Say that BMac calls Vegas and GMGM and offers him, Ovechkin. Sure, Vegas won't sell all their futures - that much is certain. But what if they don't have to?

Say that BMac offers Ovechkin and in exchange asks for one of Vegas first rounders over the next three years, where Vegas decides which pick to surrender. We then add further future considerations where the Caps are given the ability to freely pick one F and one D out of the group that Vegas selects in the expansion draft. Another condition could be that said players must at least together equal half of Ovechkin's cap hit (roughly 4,8 million).

Now I know what you are going to say; there's no way that two players in the expansion draft combined with a first rounder would be fair value for Ovy. No sir, it would not be. However, now picture that the Caps also adds a condition on their own where the deal requires Vegas to pick Orpik in the expansion draft as part of the trade.

Sure we wouldn't get full value for Ovy, but we could free up as much as 10 million in cap space. While Ovy's value can be debated to death, it stands to reason that moving Orpik's contract out without retaining salary and without sacrificing more futures would to a greater degree compensate for said reduction to Ovy's value.

Vegas gets a big name to sell them tickets as a newly started franchise, and the Caps gets some much-needed cap flexibility and can also resign any of our current UFA or RFA's.

So basically:

To Caps:
Expansion draft F
Expansion draft D
1:st rounder (Vegas choice of 2018, 19 or 20)
...And loads of cap space

To Vegas:
Ovechkin
Condition that Vegas picks Orpik in the expansion draft

 

[OV Rocks]

I wonder if this year's expansion draft might actually be a blessing in disguise?

Say that BMac calls Vegas and GMGM and offers him, Ovechkin. Sure, Vegas won't sell all their futures - that much is certain. But what if they don't have to?

Say that BMac offers Ovechkin and in exchange asks for one of Vegas first rounders over the next three years, where Vegas decides which pick to surrender. We then add further future considerations where the Caps are given the ability to freely pick one F and one D out of the group that Vegas selects in the expansion draft. Another condition could be that said players must at least together equal half of Ovechkin's cap hit (roughly 4,8 million).

Now I know what you are going to say; there's no way that two players in the expansion draft combined with a first rounder would be fair value for Ovy. No sir, it would not be. However, now picture that the Caps also adds a condition on their own where the deal requires Vegas to pick Orpik in the expansion draft as part of the trade.

Sure we wouldn't get full value for Ovy, but we could free up as much as 10 million in cap space. While Ovy's value can be debated to death, it stands to reason that moving Orpik's contract out without retaining salary and without sacrificing more futures would to a greater degree compensate for said reduction to Ovy's value.

Vegas gets a big name to sell them tickets as a newly started franchise, and the Caps gets some much-needed cap flexibility and can also resign any of our current UFA or RFA's.

So basically:

To Caps:
Expansion draft F
Expansion draft D
1:st rounder (Vegas choice of 2018, 19 or 20)
...And loads of cap space

To Vegas:
Ovechkin
Condition that Vegas picks Orpik in the expansion draft

Well I am in the boat of not trading Ovi but that deal also sounds too good to be true. Seems like it would be against some expansion draft rules but what do I know

 

[brachyrynchos]

I like that plan, and would like to build upon it.
This offseason:
Trade Ovechkin and Johansson
Re-sign Williams to 1yr deal, he's a mentor for the kids and fills the leadership void.
Trade rights to Alzner and Oshie for picks in 2019 draft.
Give all roster players summer homework, with an idea of what they need to work on, and what is expected.

2017-18 season:
Play kids in the role they are expected to play.
Continue to build a new culture with higher standards.
Plan on making playoffs.

2018 Trade Deadline:
Sell, sell sell!
Regardless of standings, the value of Beagle, Eller, Carlson, and Williams will be at their highest, propects and picks in '19 & '20.

Summer 2018:
Cap dump?
Cap space for free agents, but leave some space.

Trade Deadline 2019:
With plethora of picks and cap space, and a better assessent of the team needs, we buy top 6 guys for our bottom six.


This allows us to see where the kids are at, while restocking the system and keeping trade options open. With a team identity, with a window thatwe can actually see out of!
Yes, it will take not only alot of patience, but also everyone has to be on the same page, and everyone from the front office, to the coach, to the scouts, all have to their job effectively. The culture won't change overnight ,but with a team identity and a vision, it can happen.

 

[hockeykicker]

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