Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXXI -- Will we even care by July 1?

[MW6]

Shattenkirk was much less D-zone gaffe prone, once he was paired up with Schmidt toward end of Pens series. Shatty-Orpik just never worked. I don't think Shatty felt confident moving the puck to Orpik, and so he got trapped more and made more panicky passes to other guys on the ice.

Honestly though, these pairings really aren't terrible, especially for the regular season. But it means we have to find a way to protect Schmidt:

Nisky-Orlov
Carlson-Schmidt
Orpik-Chorney

And then give the best of the young Hershey guys the 7D slot

In the playoffs, you largely hide that 3rd pairing, like most teams do anyway.

The problem is, when do you hide it? It's an offensively inept pair that shouldn't be given way more O-zone starts because it will effect the team offense. And it might not be able to hold its ground defensively due to a lack of speed (Orpik) and defensive awareness (Chorney)

 

[MrGone]

that's just playing into the "contender year after year to fill seats" narrative. why sell a useful/impact player if you're going for it?

You have to make hard decisions. He could have been turned into a second 1C that the team was missing for so long. Instead we held on to him and he broke down three of the next four seasons (All were prime time OV years). And then we just held on to him to the point he was a 6mill 3rd line sheltered min defender that walked for nothing.

 

[Tweedsuitcase]

You have to make hard decisions. He could have been turned into a second 1C that the team was missing for so long. Instead we held on to him and he broke down three of the next four seasons (All were prime time OV years). And then we just held on to him to the point he was a 6mill 3rd line sheltered min defender that walked for nothing.

don't want to really get into defending GMGM here, but i'm not sure where, without hindsight, i would've made that call.

 

[Devil Dancer]

Am I the only one not in love with Vrana? I'm not ready to give up on him, of course, but I wasn't nearly as impressed as the collective Caps HF community, and I worry that slotting him into a top six spot may be a big mistake for 17-18.

 

[Langway]

Am I the only one not in love with Vrana? I'm not ready to give up on him, of course, but I wasn't nearly as impressed as the collective Caps HF community, and I worry that slotting him into a top six spot may be a big mistake for 17-18.

I'd guess that's more of a majority position at this point given his apparent regression at the AHL level. The possession stats were fairly good but he only had two points at even-strength in 21 games. Maybe going from Eller to Kuznetsov helps him become more productive but I'm certainly not sold on the idea either. I'm not sure he has the tenacity and consistency to be a top six mainstay, esp. in this system. I think he could help but more easily on the third-line and ideally in a more cerebral, crisp system. I've never liked the fit between the player and the system from the get-go.

Going back to that Leonsis win-now stuff, I've got to believe they'll sign TJ Oshie. It may be a regrettable contract ultimately but it didn't stop them with Orpik so why should it now? It's not like they've got much at all goal-scoring in the system anyway. Who really cares about four or five years from now?

 

[Hometown70s]

NO DOUBT, a banner of number 8 will hang from the rafters in Verizon Center one day !

The two best parts of his game have always been his shot and the physicality he brings in every game.

I have really enjoyed watching OVI the last decade but I feel that it’s time for a change in leadership.

I don’t question his desire and effort to want to win but from what I’ve seen he gives 100% effort trying to score goals and making big hits but < 100% effort on back checking (it used to be worse under Boudreau).

The first game 7 goal could have been prevented (IMO) from better back checking from OVI. Niskanen did his best to chip the puck out to OVI (this wasn’t an easy puck for OVI to handle to clear the zone), but OVI’s half-assed effort picking up RUST after the failed clear attempt is unacceptable for a CAPTAIN (IT IS A GAME 7 PLAYOFF GAME DAMN IT !).

Other players notice this!

Hypothetical: If OVI got back like he should have and popped RUST’s stick then the goal would of never happened, and the players on the bench would have seen the great play OVI made on the back check, got excited, scored the next goal, and advanced on to play Ottawa.

The only change left would be to hire a CUP winning coach ? (I think Keith Jones mentioned this).

Nobody wants to see OVI stripped of the “C†but something needs to change !

Maybe trade him to VEGAS so McPhee can take the last 4 years of the super long contract that he originally gave OVI ?

For the upcoming roster I would start with Orlov, Schmidt, Burakovsky, Kuzy, Backstrom, Wilson (I see some skill here but Trotz had him running around like a wild donkey most of the time), and Oshie - “Câ€.

HOCKEY is a TEAM game. It’s not about any 1 player. This isn’t the NBA. It’s time for change. It won’t happen but trade OVI, hire a new coach, and SHAKE IT UP. Do fans want a President Trophy winner or a CUP winner ?

 

[Raikkonen]

Name me the one person who will accept the C from the stripped Ovi?

Backstrom? Won't. Carlson? Really?

Oshie? That same guy who didn't manage to score in the half empty net in critical time? How come he's better? I doubt he will accept too. Has his own demons.

I can only think of Orpik. But he should be gone before July 1st.

I doubt it happens.


PS: Stripping Ovi will do much less than getting a winning coach. Trotz have a big hand in this loss. Bigger than Ovi's for sure.

 

[OV Rocks]

Nobody is taking the C from Ovi. The only similar situation was in San Jose when they stripped Marleau and Thronton but the had Pavelski waiting. Caps don't have that.


Starting a bandwagon, and probably the only one that is going to be on it.
Trade Holtby

He has the greatest return value and assuming the Caps lose Trotz, they probably lose Korn, so Holtby likely regresses a bit. Once that regression comes his ability over Grubauer will be minimal enough that the Caps can play in front of Gurbauer.

Holtby brings back a top end forward, a legit 1 d-man, or a ton of picks


Do it







Ready to take a ton of crap now

 

[Raikkonen]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/goes-brown-washington-capitals-now/

Good analysis of a deep abyss Caps are in.

 

[hockeykicker]

Oshie says his agent and caps have already began discussions and doesn't plan to go anywhere

 

[Hometown70s]

I wasn’t really saying I would strip OVI from the “C” but reiterating that something else needs to change. Besides, it won’t happen anyway.

I think the only way to change leadership at this point is to trade OVI. THEN give it to Oshie or someone from a trade.

I like Oshie’s game and work ethic. I think he would make a good captain (just my opinion). I wouldn’t fault Oshie for not scoring on that play (it wasn’t that easy) and all 60 minutes of any game 7 is critical (besides NOBODY SCORED).

Leadership is more than that.

 

[OV Rocks]

I wasn’t really saying I would strip OVI from the “C†but reiterating that something else needs to change. Besides, it won’t happen anyway.

I think the only way to change leadership at this point is to trade OVI. THEN give it to Oshie or someone from a trade.

I like Oshie’s game and work ethic. I think he would make a good captain (just my opinion). I wouldn’t fault Oshie for not scoring on that play (it wasn’t that easy) and all 60 minutes of any game 7 is critical (besides NOBODY SCORED).

Leadership is more than that.

There is not a player in the league that would deserve to wear the C for any team immediately after a trade, never going to happen

 

[DCRedhawk21]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/goes-brown-washington-capitals-now/

Good analysis of a deep abyss Caps are in.

Pretty decent analysis. I would bet the chose somewhere between the double down and tinker option:

- Re-signing Oshie;
- Let Shattenkirk go, attempt to unload Orpik, and re-sign Alzner/Schmidt;
- Try to get a little faster on the bottom 6.

Ovechkin - Backstrom - Oshie
Johannson - Kuznetsov - Wilson
Vrana - Eller - Burakovsky
XX - Beagle - XX

Orlov - Niskanen
Alzner - Carlson
Schmidt - XX

And take another crack at it. The only real shake-ups involve either (1) trading Backstrom or Ovechkin or (2) trading Kuznetsov for a different style player. Anything else would qualify as tinkering to me. But we will see...

 

[hockeyfan88]

Nobody is taking the C from Ovi. The only similar situation was in San Jose when they stripped Marleau and Thronton but the had Pavelski waiting. Caps don't have that.


Starting a bandwagon, and probably the only one that is going to be on it.
Trade Holtby

He has the greatest return value and assuming the Caps lose Trotz, they probably lose Korn, so Holtby likely regresses a bit. Once that regression comes his ability over Grubauer will be minimal enough that the Caps can play in front of Gurbauer.

Holtby brings back a top end forward, a legit 1 d-man, or a ton of picks


Do it







Ready to take a ton of crap now

I don't even think that's absurd. Revelation was the first here to suggest trading Holtby and he got a lot of crap for it. The only thing I question is if Grubauer is legit to be his short term replacement.

Holtby is very consistent, but his highs are not as good as goalies like Price and Lundqvist. Ottawa just got into the 3rd round with Anderson, Nashville with a declining Rinne, Chicago won lots of Cups with Crawford.

A 1D is way more important than an elite goalie these days. If someone is dumb enough to trade a #1D for him, I would pull the trigger immediately.

 

[Chimaera]

I know insanity is doing the same thing over and trying to get different results, but I'm not sure how else to proceed without doing that.

Obviously, there's going to be some amount of retooling, as money is a factor. They've got plenty of UFAs so they could have a new look whether they want it or not.

Even if you take off the players you expect to see leave, they still have a core that will make the playoffs.

The question for me is what they're going to add and how much can some of the young players they have improve? Can they see enough improvement with maybe a bit more luck and break through? I think it's worth trying for at least one more run. Whether that's a popular opinion or not.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I was, too. But once we held on, moving Semin at the TDL that year would have been self-destructive. We were playing well. No reason not to take a shot, and you can't do that without one of your best players. I was good with trading him prior to that year because it was clear we weren't even trying to build a 2nd line around him. But once we waited until we did, trading him would have been a bad move.

With Green, it's McPhee versus MacLellan. It was stupid for McPhee not to trade him, but not so much with Mac. Green played well for us that year. Trade him prior to the season maybe, but his value was down because of his recent history. Moving him at the TDL would have been a mistake.

Ahh the TXPD argument. The longterm health and future of the franchise is secondary to a short playoff run that woefully ends in failure. Classic Caps management style.

Waiting until the TDL was the mistake. ZERO vision from a team architect.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don't even think that's absurd. Revelation was the first here to suggest trading Holtby and he got a lot of crap for it. The only thing I question is if Grubauer is legit to be his short term replacement.

Holtby is very consistent, but his highs are not as good as goalies like Price and Lundqvist. Ottawa just got into the 3rd round with Anderson, Nashville with a declining Rinne, Chicago won lots of Cups with Crawford.

A 1D is way more important than an elite goalie these days. If someone is dumb enough to trade a #1D for him, I would pull the trigger immediately.

The idea deserved crap heaved at it at the time. Today people are mad after his first substandard series in a Caps uni and now willing to ponder it at least.

I project Grubby at best as a 1b type of starter. A clear step back from a Holtby playing at his best. If your goal is to win the Cup, you don't take that step backwards unless team management has suddenly lost all faith in the guy.

 

[Acallabeth]

Name me the one person who will accept the C from the stripped Ovi?

Who deserves it? Who stepped up when it was needed? Who led the team in playoffs?

No one. We should remove the entire concept of captaincy until someone deserving it comes around.

 

[Chimaera]

Admittedly, trading Holtby is a part you could logically replace without blowing up the roster and getting a good return. He's young enough to where a team might find him desirable and give assets of the non-futures back.

That said, I don't know if I'm enamored with going with another goalie in a run. I do think the young Russian kid has upside to where he's probably going to be an elite level goalie in the NHL, but I also think he's 2-3 seasons away from being here and being ready to contribute.

I also think his contract is manageable enough to where you can't really make that move.

 

[hockeyfan88]

The idea deserved crap heaved at it at the time. Today people are mad after his first substandard series in a Caps uni and now willing to ponder it at least.

I project Grubby at best as a 1b type of starter. A clear step back from a Holtby playing at his best. If your goal is to win the Cup, you don't take that step backwards unless team management has suddenly lost all faith in the guy.

I disagree with your first statement. I think the idea had merit at that time.

Holtby is a good goalie but it's pretty clear he's not elite when it comes to pure talent. I see him as a system guy, tbh.

I agree with you when it comes to Grubauer though. He played easier games than Holtby and got sheltered in a way. If he starts 40 games +, we'll see him as someone like Neuvirth. A stop-gap.

 

[Chimaera]

Stripping the C is foolish.

What does that do?

This club, for better or worse, is Ovechkin. He's the barometer of the club.

Stripping the Captaincy does what? If you're going that route, you're trading him.

 

[Chimaera]

Holtby not elite level?

Sure, his playoffs was subpar, when compared with his play in past playoffs, but he's a top 3 goalie in the league.

The Caps lost. It stings, it's terrible, but it's not like they got blown out of the rink. For what it's worth, you can make a credible argument that the Caps outplayed the Pens for much of the series. A bounce here, a goal there, and they moved on. It didn't happen. It's hockey. It just does. Not everyone's going to win each game. They lost to the second best team in the league.

Saying that players who are Vezina level are good but not great or a system goalie is just revisionist.

 

[joeyjake5]

As a pen's fan, If the caps are to remain competitive with the pens, the first thing the caps must do is resign OSHIE. Yes it will be expensive, probably around $7MM. Then get rid of Orpik anyway you can but probably it would take a buy-out. And Don't even think of signing of Williams, Alzner and Shatten.

The caps best all-around forward is OShie, game in and game out. The caps can not afford to lose him. No one else is even close.

 

[OV Rocks]

Holtby not elite level?

Sure, his playoffs was subpar, when compared with his play in past playoffs, but he's a top 3 goalie in the league.

The Caps lost. It stings, it's terrible, but it's not like they got blown out of the rink. For what it's worth, you can make a credible argument that the Caps outplayed the Pens for much of the series. A bounce here, a goal there, and they moved on. It didn't happen. It's hockey. It just does. Not everyone's going to win each game. They lost to the second best team in the league.

Saying that players who are Vezina level are good but not great or a system goalie is just revisionist.

Yeah and we said the same thing last year, the year before that, and a dozen times before that. If this roster remains similar, not the same that is impossible, we will continue to say it.

I do not think blowing it up is the proper way and we can't trade Ovi or Backstrom. Big time moves to bring in high end talent has to happen though

 

[g00n]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...reakdown-day-as-washingtons-offseason-begins/

plenty of updates on a lot of players there