News Article: A pretty fair take I think.....

aronjudge11

Registered User
Jul 2, 2017
1,017
222
A year ago most posters talked about how the team would easily be better just having no Capuano around any longer. It is a real possibility that this teams.defense and goaltending are the worst in the NHL. At least bottom 5
 

ScaredStreit

Registered User
May 5, 2006
11,091
2,978
Tampa, FL
Honestly we downgraded on offense, defense, and goaltending this off-season. Only coaching was upgraded. While Trotz is a vast improvement...you can have the best coach in the world but if they have no talent in front of them then it's pointless. As much as Tavares did us dirty...if this was the roster/vision Lou presented him in June I would have left too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Capt Obvious

ScaredStreit

Registered User
May 5, 2006
11,091
2,978
Tampa, FL
Wouldn't say super thin when you have guys like Bellows and Ho-Sang working to make the team on offense and on D a guy like Devon Toews and Aho knocking on the door. Yea there are question marks but the signs are pointing to these guys being legit NHLers.

I say this every off-season and I'll say it once again (broken record I know), we point to the young prospects because they're our only glimmer of hope. The truth is that the same thing can be said about any NHL team. Reality is that some of our young players will meet their potential (a word that means hasn't accomplished anything yet), and some wont. If we're relying on a bunch of young players who have limited/no NHL experience and have tons of scrubs up and down the lineup (we do)...it's going to be a LONG season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doshell Propivo

Brunomics

Registered User
Sep 2, 2006
8,787
1,586
I say this every off-season and I'll say it once again (broken record I know), we point to the young prospects because they're our only glimmer of hope. The truth is that the same thing can be said about any NHL team. Reality is that some of our young players will meet their potential (a word that means hasn't accomplished anything yet), and some wont. If we're relying on a bunch of young players who have limited/no NHL experience and have tons of scrubs up and down the lineup (we do)...it's going to be a LONG season.

Devon Toews will be a top 4 dman by midseason(he looks great) and Bellows absolutely should make the team and score 20+.
 

Uncle Duke

Heads up, fellas!
May 14, 2018
4,488
2,766
Sarasota, FL
Don't kid yourself. If this roster does not change it is going to be an ugly year no matter how amazing a few of the kids turn out. Our roster was a mess last year even with Tavares. Now he is gone along with CdH. Good luck with that.
There is a better than 50/50 chance that you are right. Listening to and reading many of the Isles-related podcasts and blog posts there is a hope and a belief that Barzy is going to take it to the next level and Pulock is going to become a 1st pair stud and Trotz is going to squeeze every last bit of production out of every last player and on and on. But listening to and reading between the lines, you can tell that there is a genuine fear that it will be a train-wreck of a season. I'm hoping for the former and dreading the latter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigtim1988

Brunomics

Registered User
Sep 2, 2006
8,787
1,586
There is a better than 50/50 chance that you are right. Listening to and reading many of the Isles-related podcasts and blog posts there is a hope and a belief that Barzy is going to take it to the next level and Pulock is going to become a 1st pair stud and Trotz is going to squeeze every last bit of production out of every last player and on and on. But listening to and reading between the lines, you can tell that there is a genuine fear that it will be a train-wreck of a season. I'm hoping for the former and dreading the latter.

I'm very confident that Pulock and Toews will impress. My question marks are Pelech and Aho. Everyone is high on Aho but I don't see it. Pelech I think can bounce back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigtim1988

Brunomics

Registered User
Sep 2, 2006
8,787
1,586
They have zero NHL games experience combined. You have ridiculous expectations.

I think they are fair expectations for the talent they are displaying. Last year the consensus was Barzal was going to put up 50-60 points. Was that a ridiculous expectation? He had zero NHL games worth of experience.
 

Doshell Propivo

Registered User
Dec 5, 2005
11,233
4,884
There is a better than 50/50 chance that you are right. Listening to and reading many of the Isles-related podcasts and blog posts there is a hope and a belief that Barzy is going to take it to the next level and Pulock is going to become a 1st pair stud and Trotz is going to squeeze every last bit of production out of every last player and on and on. But listening to and reading between the lines, you can tell that there is a genuine fear that it will be a train-wreck of a season. I'm hoping for the former and dreading the latter.
It'll most likely be somewhere in the middle. I expect the system to improve and the goals against to be significantly reduced. There's enough firepower up front to score some goals but at the end of the day, the lack of talent on D and in goal, lack of depth on D and 50% of the forwards being has-beens or goons will result in a long season. About 85 points. 10th or 11th in the conference. Essentially meaningless games after Christmas.
 

crasherino

Registered User
May 9, 2013
7,342
2,836
I think they are fair expectations for the talent they are displaying. Last year the consensus was Barzal was going to put up 50-60 points. Was that a ridiculous expectation? He had zero NHL games worth of experience.

Was that the consensus? Maybe the consensus hope (and prayer), but I'm not sure if he was being penciled in for those numbers. 60 pts for a rookie is a lot. Brock Nelson had 14 goals in his first year/20 goals his second and that was considered a resounding success. He was on his way to great things....until he wasn't.

I think we all like Toews and sure - its possible he's a Top 4 Dman by midseason. That will likely mean that either a) the team really and truly sucks and/or b) we have a lot of injuries.

Considering there is no spot open for him right now, I'll happily take him playing his way to a solid 3rd pairing guy.
 

Doshell Propivo

Registered User
Dec 5, 2005
11,233
4,884
I think they are fair expectations for the talent they are displaying. Last year the consensus was Barzal was going to put up 50-60 points. Was that a ridiculous expectation? He had zero NHL games worth of experience.
The "consensus" also was that Nelson, Reinhart, Dal Colle, Ho-Sang, Strome, etc. would be stars. I can go back farther and talk about Torres, Nilsson, Connolly, etc. The fact is that most draft picks DON'T become top line players. Especially not in their rookie season. Every single season Islanders fans pin their hopes on prospects. And more often than not, we get kicked in the teeth... But then September rolls around and we get all excited about the next draft pick and how he's doing in preseason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sidney the Kidney

Brunomics

Registered User
Sep 2, 2006
8,787
1,586
The "consensus" also was that Nelson, Reinhart, Dal Colle, Ho-Sang, Strome, etc. would be stars. I can go back farther and talk about Torres, Nilsson, Connolly, etc. The fact is that most draft picks DON'T become top line players. Especially not in their rookie season. Every single season Islanders fans pin their hopes on prospects. And more often than not, we get kicked in the teeth... But then September rolls around and we get all excited about the next draft pick and how he's doing in preseason.

I never called Bellows a top line player. I also don't think 20+ goals is top line. More middle six.

I don't think Nelson excited anyone. Same with Reinhart. Dal Colle never showed anything even in preseason or rookie games. Ho-Sang has everything but the attitude and Strome settled into being a third line center. Only person has they developed and ended up disappointing was Strome and I blame coaching and Capuano. Development was awful.

I loved Torres as a middle six winger and Tim Connolly was a top six center(.69 ppg on Buffalo) who put up really good numbers when healthy.
 

A Pointed Stick

No Idea About The Future
Dec 23, 2010
16,105
333
There is a better than 50/50 chance that you are right. Listening to and reading many of the Isles-related podcasts and blog posts there is a hope and a belief that Barzy is going to take it to the next level and Pulock is going to become a 1st pair stud and Trotz is going to squeeze every last bit of production out of every last player and on and on. But listening to and reading between the lines, you can tell that there is a genuine fear that it will be a train-wreck of a season. I'm hoping for the former and dreading the latter.
One bad year will only help us. Look at the top ten kids this year. Ask Tampa if a bad year or two can help you in a hot and heavy draft. If we can pick top 5 it was worth it this year.
 

Doshell Propivo

Registered User
Dec 5, 2005
11,233
4,884
I never called Bellows a top line player. I also don't think 20+ goals is top line. More middle six.

I don't think Nelson excited anyone. Same with Reinhart. Dal Colle never showed anything even in preseason or rookie games. Ho-Sang has everything but the attitude and Strome settled into being a third line center. Only person has they developed and ended up disappointing was Strome and I blame coaching and Capuano. Development was awful.

I loved Torres as a middle six winger and Tim Connolly was a top six center(.69 ppg on Buffalo) who put up really good numbers when healthy.
Scoring 20+ goals in the NHL is rare. Only about 100 players do it every year. Not many teams can boast more than three 20 goal scorers. If you're scoring 20+ you're most likely a "top line" player.

Also, in the last 10 years, only 14 rookies scored 20 goals. Bellows scoring 20+ this year would be one hell of a season and a Calder candidate. I hope you're right but it is a very lofty expectation.

And your revisionist history aside, all of those players I mentioned would be considered first round busts who failed to live up to their potential (obviously jury still out on some of the recent ones). And every single one of those players had posts about them here in Septembers' past where they were expected to fill a prominent role.

My point is that making declarations such as so and so "will be a top 4 dman" and so and will "absolutely score 20+" when they haven't even played a single NHL game is extremely premature.
 

Brunomics

Registered User
Sep 2, 2006
8,787
1,586
Scoring 20+ goals in the NHL is rare. Only about 100 players do it every year. Not many teams can boast more than three 20 goal scorers. If you're scoring 20+ you're most likely a "top line" player.

Also, in the last 10 years, only 14 rookies scored 20 goals. Bellows scoring 20+ this year would be one hell of a season and a Calder candidate. I hope you're right but it is a very lofty expectation.

And your revisionist history aside, all of those players I mentioned would be considered first round busts who failed to live up to their potential (obviously jury still out on some of the recent ones). And every single one of those players had posts about them here in Septembers' past where they were expected to fill a prominent role.

My point is that making declarations such as so and so "will be a top 4 dman" and so and will "absolutely score 20+" when they haven't even played a single NHL game is extremely premature.

How is it revisionist history. I'm talking at the point of them actually making the Isles. I'm not talking about my expectations while they were in junior or somewhere else.

If Bellows goes 20g 20a I'd be very happy. But I don't consider a .5 PPG player a Calder candidate.

Also how many players in the league have a release and shot like that? As well as being able to get in positions to use it? At a high level yea your right concerning how rare it is. But how many snipers out there actually fail to score 20?
 

Uncle Duke

Heads up, fellas!
May 14, 2018
4,488
2,766
Sarasota, FL
It'll most likely be somewhere in the middle. I expect the system to improve and the goals against to be significantly reduced. There's enough firepower up front to score some goals but at the end of the day, the lack of talent on D and in goal, lack of depth on D and 50% of the forwards being has-beens or goons will result in a long season. About 85 points. 10th or 11th in the conference. Essentially meaningless games after Christmas.
Your "somewhere in the middle" is the consensus "good" amongst the media wonks, I think, and that is only possible with Barzy lighting it up and Pulock coming along faster than we could have hoped. Still too many holes elsewhere. Another season in the middle with another 10-15 first rounder is the last thing I want (we won't be as lucky as we were this year). Hoping for Trotz magic or total tank. Well, not hoping for total tank, actually dreading it as I said, but would dread mushy middle more.
 
Last edited:

Uncle Duke

Heads up, fellas!
May 14, 2018
4,488
2,766
Sarasota, FL
Devon Toews will be a top 4 dman by midseason(he looks great) and Bellows absolutely should make the team and score 20+.
I hope you're right but these are the kinds of expectations that too many of the faithful have IMHO. The worst NHL player on the worst NHL team is a great hockey player at pretty much any other level. The point is, being great and rising above NHL average is tough, even for the supremely talented. And then there are the intangibles. Our young talent still has a ways to go and expecting them to be NHL elite right now is going to lead to some disappointment, I think.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ndgolden

Doshell Propivo

Registered User
Dec 5, 2005
11,233
4,884
How is it revisionist history. I'm talking at the point of them actually making the Isles. I'm not talking about my expectations while they were in junior or somewhere else.

If Bellows goes 20g 20a I'd be very happy. But I don't consider a .5 PPG player a Calder candidate.

Also how many players in the league have a release and shot like that? As well as being able to get in positions to use it? At a high level yea your right concerning how rare it is. But how many snipers out there actually fail to score 20?
Well I brought up those players as it relates to the conversation. First round picks that failed to live up to expectations. Players where the "general consensus" was that they'd be stars before playing a single NHL game. For every Barzal there's a half dozen who disappointed.

If Bellows goes 20/20 he'll finish maybe in top 5 in the Calder voting. Top 10 for sure.

Dave Chyzowski was considered a great sniper as well.
 

PK Cronin

Bailey Fan Club Prez
Feb 11, 2013
34,159
23,528
Well I brought up those players as it relates to the conversation. First round picks that failed to live up to expectations. Players where the "general consensus" was that they'd be stars before playing a single NHL game. For every Barzal there's a half dozen who disappointed.

If Bellows goes 20/20 he'll finish maybe in top 5 in the Calder voting. Top 10 for sure.

Dave Chyzowski was considered a great sniper as well.

You're right. All of those kids were thought to step in and make an impact. Strome was going to take over the number 2 spot from Nielsen. The kid line was the next big thing. Reinhardt was going to be a stud. Dal Colle a sniper. Didn't quite work out that way.
 

doublechili

For all intensive purposes, your nuts
Apr 11, 2006
18,593
14,948
The "can't predict a kid's success" argument may have exceptions. For instance, anybody care to bet that the Pettersson kid in VC ain't going to light it up this year?
 

danteipp

Registered User
Aug 3, 2005
6,749
3,750
What I am hoping for is a competitive team that battles for the playoffs, is tough to play against BUT falls just short of making the playoffs. With the kids and key young players all taking a step forward.

Then, at the draft lottery, Lou looks at Bettman and says, "Top pick or I release the photos I have of you with the sheep." And that is how the Isles add Hughes and the 2C to pair with Barzal.
 

Islanders4Cups

Registered User
May 4, 2002
4,673
1,526
Boston, MA USA
You're right. All of those kids were thought to step in and make an impact. Strome was going to take over the number 2 spot from Nielsen. The kid line was the next big thing. Reinhardt was going to be a stud. Dal Colle a sniper. Didn't quite work out that way.

Not sure why Strome keeps coming up here. He became Eberle who is clearly a top6, arguably top3 winger in this league.
 

Quicklime

Registered User
Sep 25, 2006
5,569
653
Denver, CO
This inspired me to do some digging.

I don't think the defense is going to be as bad as some think. Weight's deployment was just that poor:

nyistats.png


Say what you want about "playing hahd," but the defense imploded under Weight - the Isles gave up goals at 72% of the rate under Capuano. Looking at coaches alone and leaving rosters out of it for a moment, this would be the last 4 seasons:

GamesGAGAA
Weight1224063.32
Capuano2065602.77
Trotz3288052.45
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Saying "they can only go up from here" is a mathematical understatement. We went from a top-10 US scorer that knows offense to a career coach that knows defense.
 

Seph

Registered User
Sep 5, 2002
18,949
1,666
Oregon
Visit site
Scoring 20+ goals in the NHL is rare. Only about 100 players do it every year. Not many teams can boast more than three 20 goal scorers. If you're scoring 20+ you're most likely a "top line" player.

Also, in the last 10 years, only 14 rookies scored 20 goals. Bellows scoring 20+ this year would be one hell of a season and a Calder candidate. I hope you're right but it is a very lofty expectation.

And your revisionist history aside, all of those players I mentioned would be considered first round busts who failed to live up to their potential (obviously jury still out on some of the recent ones). And every single one of those players had posts about them here in Septembers' past where they were expected to fill a prominent role.

My point is that making declarations such as so and so "will be a top 4 dman" and so and will "absolutely score 20+" when they haven't even played a single NHL game is extremely premature.

20 goals is a typical season from Brock Nelson. Brock Nelson is also a guy you consider a bust. 20 goals by itself hardly makes someone a 1st liner.
 

Doshell Propivo

Registered User
Dec 5, 2005
11,233
4,884
20 goals is a typical season from Brock Nelson. Brock Nelson is also a guy you consider a bust. 20 goals by itself hardly makes someone a 1st liner.
Fair point. Although he scored more than 20 only once his career and didn't do it in his rookie year. 20 goals by itself may not make someone a first liner but look at the players who consistently score 20+ goals. Most of them would be considered top liners.

Also, just to be clear, I personally don't consider all of those guys I mentioned "busts." Just pointing out that fans tend to anoint every promising rookie as the savior and when they don't meet those sky high expectations they are considered busts.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad