News Article: A pretty fair take I think.....

Quicklime

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Sep 25, 2006
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For posterity:

This inspired me to do some digging.

I don't think the defense is going to be as bad as some think. Weight's deployment was just that poor:

View attachment 141255

Say what you want about "playing hahd," but the defense imploded under Weight - the Isles gave up goals at 72% of the rate under Capuano. Looking at coaches alone and leaving rosters out of it for a moment, this would be the last 4 seasons:

GamesGAGAA
Weight1224063.32
Capuano2065602.77
Trotz3288052.45
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Saying "they can only go up from here" is a mathematical understatement. We went from a top-10 US scorer that knows offense to a career coach that knows defense.
 

Seph

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Sorry but that is simply not true. In that sentence, the conjunction and links absolutely should to score 20+ goals. How can it be anything else? "Score 20+" by itself is not a sentence. What did he mean by him scoring 20+ if not "absolutely should?" You say he meant "will." Even though that modal verb does not appear anywhere in the sentence, is there really a difference? Is saying "He absolutely should score 20+." really that different than saying "He will score 20+?" In either case, he feels strongly that Bellows will be a 20+ scorer this year. Semantics indeed. And not sure why you're arguing these silly semantics on his behalf. Pretty sure he can speak for himself.

Also not sure why you're hung up on the first liner thing. That's an ancillary point in the conversation. The crux was that we tend to have extremely high expectations for all of our #1 picks and more often than not they fail to meet them.
This is just getting, sad, dude. But if you really don't know, though the modal verb applies to both, nothing in the sentence indicates that the adverb applies to both. Also, I'm not speaking for him, he's already clarified that it's his expectation, which by the nature of an expectation, means he doesn't believe it's guaranteed or an absolute.

But whatever, if you're really this interested in arguing semantics instead of just admitting that 21 goals doesn't make someone a first liner, which was literally the only point I made, then I'm done with this. Have a lovely day.
 

Doshell Propivo

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Dec 5, 2005
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This is just getting, sad, dude. But if you really don't know, though the modal verb applies to both, nothing in the sentence indicates that the adverb applies to both. Also, I'm not speaking for him, he's already clarified that it's his expectation, which by the nature of an expectation, means he doesn't believe it's guaranteed or an absolute.

But whatever, if you're really this interested in arguing semantics instead of just admitting that 21 goals doesn't make someone a first liner, which was literally the only point I made, then I'm done with this. Have a lovely day.

I like how you bend the rules of the English language to suit your argument. How convenient. I also like how you go down a semantics rabbit hole and then whine about it when you get twisted up. Should another English teacher on the board point out that you’re wrong?

I’ll let you have the last palabra. Dude.
 

Newsworthy

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Jan 28, 2018
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Everyone killed Doug Weight and blamed him last year. So now let's see how good Trotz is with a worse team?
 

aronjudge11

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Jul 2, 2017
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If this season goes worse than last year, Snow and weight will be looked at a little better. Maybe both goalies will have career years and barzel stays healthy and two of the defenseman have career years.
More likely though this team will remind me of the apt lafontaine Randy wood last place islanders. The good news, is it's the islanders, we will know by Halloween if we are looking at a playoff contender or its time to trade everyone and get six first round picks in the draft
 

SI

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Feb 16, 2013
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If this season goes worse than last year, Snow and weight will be looked at a little better. Maybe both goalies will have career years and barzel stays healthy and two of the defenseman have career years.
More likely though this team will remind me of the apt lafontaine Randy wood last place islanders. The good news, is it's the islanders, we will know by Halloween if we are looking at a playoff contender or its time to trade everyone and get six first round picks in the draft

No they won't. No matter how bad they are this season.

No high hopes this season.

The Isles will most likely finish where they finished last season possibly a bit higher or lower.

I could see them playing a strong team game and make a run at the final spot of the playoffs.

But I do find your posts strange.
 

Chardo

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Apr 27, 2007
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Isles have been a goaltending wasteland for years. Now they have the best goaltending coach in the world. The guy who molded the previously unheralded Hasek, Rinne, and Holtby into Hall of Famers. Its worth noting that Robin Lehner was drafted a lot higher than all of them. We're about to see what elite coaching can do. Don't be so quick to judge the Isles based on what you've seen fron them before.
 

13th Floor

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Oct 10, 2008
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Isles have been a goaltending wasteland for years. Now they have the best goaltending coach in the world. The guy who molded the previously unheralded Hasek, Rinne, and Holtby into Hall of Famers. Its worth noting that Robin Lehner was drafted a lot higher than all of them. We're about to see what elite coaching can do. Don't be so quick to judge the Isles based on what you've seen fron them before.

I like your optimism, but I want to see what Korn can do with a young blank slate with raw talent. Well, I know what he can do, but I believe nothing good will happen to the blue and orange until I actually see it with my own eyes. Coming in mid/late development with a one 32 year old goalie and one goalie with, unfortunately for him as a person, a host of issues. Didn't Lehner go an entire season without saving one shootout attempt? Ugh.

This tandem is not good enough to cover for this defense and this defense is not good enough to cover for this tandem. Structure and coaching will definitely help, but that's enough to make us bottom-10 instead of bottom-2. I do not have high hopes for this season. I do, however, have excitement for 2 years from today.
 

majormet

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Not basing things on the outcomes of these pre-season games, but this team is noticeably better by having a real coach and one that is coming off a cup win... we have been so poorly coached for years that the team on the ice resembles an NHL product even with mostly the same cast of characters. I think 100 points is doable this year, even with JT in Toronto... we won't score as many goals but we sure will let up a lot less.
 

13th Floor

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Not basing things on the outcomes of these pre-season games, but this team is noticeably better by having a real coach and one that is coming off a cup win... we have been so poorly coached for years that the team on the ice resembles an NHL product even with mostly the same cast of characters. I think 100 points is doable this year, even with JT in Toronto... we won't score as many goals but we sure will let up a lot less.

100 points? Puff puff pass man.
 

IslesNorway

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Apr 9, 2007
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If this team can play AS A TEAM we stand a chance. Maybe JT leaving is a blessing in disguise of sorts as sometimes addition by subtraction works. Maybe he wasn't a winner despite his talent? Maybe he never got the locker room going? Maybe he never was the leader we imagined him to be? Maybe he was just a self-centred jerk who was more concerned with his own performance than that of the team? I guess we'll find out in due time. Being an underdog is often a good thing for a team.

We all know this team has plenty of gaping holes and question marks but when Trotz says defence can be taught quite easily I believe him. Most of our players have never played under a proper NHL coach and can only get better by doing so. The talent and potential is there and there will be rough patches along the season but now we have some actual knowledgable people in charge the only way is up.

Nobody expects us to be in playoff contention but that may actually work in our favour.
 

majormet

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100 points? Puff puff pass man.

Coaching means a lot with this team, I think when Gordon coached the team there was a sense of coaching but the talent was bad, and he wasn't a good motivator but the product looked like a hockey team, with Cappy and Weight it seemed to be less structured now we have a guy who knows how to win, the talent is there to be a playoff team that can make 1-2 trades at the deadline to be effective,
 

Drive 4 Five

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Sep 5, 2006
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I think the roster as it currently stands will be in the mix for a wild card spot, with a lot of future potential. Some people here focus too much on the loss of Tavares and his scoring. The focus should always be on goal differential - he was always a defensive liability. My guess is this team puts in around 230 goals. If they can cut goals against drastically (which I think they can with their offseason additions and a Trotz system), and achieve a +5 -> +10 differential, they are a wild card team on the rise.

IMO with Trotz and a real team system, this is a better squad in 2-3 years time without Tavares and his $11-12mm cap hit, than it would be with him. The money can be spread around elsewhere.

My Goals For prediction for 2018-2019:

upload_2018-9-25_15-26-40.png


I think the future in 2-3 years time is bright, but I'm not throwing in the towel on 2018-2019 yet. Good chance there will be a spark in the second half of the season when the games come back to the Coliseum as well - don't discount that.
 
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DerekKingSnipes

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I think the roster as it currently stands will be in the mix for a wild card spot, with a lot of future potential. Some people here focus too much on the loss of Tavares and his scoring. The focus should always be on goal differential - he was always a defensive liability. My guess is this team puts in around 230 goals. If they can cut goals against drastically (which I think they can with their offseason additions and a Trotz system), and achieve a +5 -> +10 differential, they are a wild card team on the rise.

IMO with Trotz and a real team system, this is a better squad in 2-3 years time without Tavares and his $11-12mm cap hit, than it would be with him. The money can be spread around elsewhere.

My Goals For prediction for 2018-2019:

View attachment 142267

I think the future in 2-3 years time is bright, but I'm not throwing in the towel on 2018-2019 yet. Good chance there will be a spark in the second half of the season when the games come back to the Coliseum as well - don't discount that.
I also believe Lou will add if this team is in it still come trade deadline time which has always been his MO.
 

Islanders4Cups

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I think the future in 2-3 years time is bright, but I'm not throwing in the towel on 2018-2019 yet. Good chance there will be a spark in the second half of the season when the games come back to the Coliseum as well - don't discount that.

Yes, I am counting on an ok start where they are in the race and a positive bounce in the second half to make the playoffs.
 

beach

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Right. The absolutely applies to making the team. He also says he will score 20+ goals, but that's separated from the absolutely by the conjunction. It's really a shame we have to go down this dumb semantic road instead of just being able to agree that there's a lot more to being a first liner than scoring 21 goals, but since you insist on continuing it, here we are.
As much as I seem to never agree with anything Doshell says, I have to agree with him in this situation. Because there was no comma used, both predicates apply to what "he" will do.
 

aronjudge11

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Jul 2, 2017
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I also believe Lou will add if this team is in it still come trade deadline time which has always been his MO.
I'm not confident Lou can add to the team. We hoped, and I'm.sure Lou did that a trade could be made for a good player at the Draft to help convince JT to sign. Didn't happen. Then.free agency came and went with no one. No trades for a defenseman or goalie despite reports Lou tried for Karlsen and others. It just seems impossible to aquire good players between no trade lists, and players.agents telling Lou that if u trade for my guy he's not signing long term. They will have to become good on their own and through the draft and players with little options before they become a team people want to be on
 

Seph

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As much as I seem to never agree with anything Doshell says, I have to agree with him in this situation. Because there was no comma used, both predicates apply to what "he" will do.
I seriously can't believe we are still discussing the grammar here, but no one is questioning if Bellows is the subject of both clauses. Nothing about the comma placement would indicate though that an adverb (such as "absolutely") used in one clause would apply to the verb used in a different clause, which is the point being discussed. The "will score 20+" clause is a dependent clause since Bellows is its subject, yes; it is not a dependent clause and requiring a comma because any adverb or adjective from the preceding clause applies to it. As I have pointed out, Brunomics has also already clarified he intended his statement as an expectation, and the nature of an expectation is that it is something that is not guaranteed or that will absolutely happen.

But more importantly, I would really hope we can respect each other enough to understand that no one actually thinks they are prescient, and when they use such hyperbole like this in their predictions, it is merely being used in the colloquial manner to emphasize their confidence, rather than requiring everything to be stated literally and subject to grammar review. This is a chatboard; people shouldn't need to study their APA style manual before they make a post.

But either way, none of this changes that a 20+ goal scorer and a 1st liner are different labels that mean different things, regardless of how many players fit both labels.
 
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beach

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I seriously can't believe we are still discussing the grammar here, but no one is questioning if Bellows is the subject of both clauses. Nothing about the comma placement would indicate though that an adverb (such as "absolutely") used in one clause would apply to the verb used in a different clause, which is the point being discussed. The "will score 20+" clause is a dependent clause since Bellows is its subject, yes; it is not a dependent clause and requiring a comma because any adverb or adjective from the preceding clause applies to it. As I have pointed out, Brunomics has also already clarified he intended his statement as an expectation, and the nature of an expectation is that it is something that is not guaranteed or that will absolutely happen.

But more importantly, I would really hope we can respect each other enough to understand that no one actually thinks they are prescient, and when they use such hyperbole like this in their predictions, it is merely being used in the colloquial manner to emphasize their confidence, rather than requiring everything to be stated literally and subject to grammar review. This is a chatboard; people shouldn't need to study their APA style manual before they make a post.

But either way, none of this changes that a 20+ goal scorer and a 1st liner are different labels that mean different things, regardless of how many players fit both labels.
Time for a Snickers?
 
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BelovedIsles

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Oct 22, 2005
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Where’s the poster Periferal to argue semantics!?!?

This board lost a lot of regulars when JT left.
 

Doshell Propivo

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Dec 5, 2005
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I seriously can't believe we are still discussing the grammar here, but no one is questioning if Bellows is the subject of both clauses. Nothing about the comma placement would indicate though that an adverb (such as "absolutely") used in one clause would apply to the verb used in a different clause, which is the point being discussed. The "will score 20+" clause is a dependent clause since Bellows is its subject, yes; it is not a dependent clause and requiring a comma because any adverb or adjective from the preceding clause applies to it. As I have pointed out, Brunomics has also already clarified he intended his statement as an expectation, and the nature of an expectation is that it is something that is not guaranteed or that will absolutely happen.

But more importantly, I would really hope we can respect each other enough to understand that no one actually thinks they are prescient, and when they use such hyperbole like this in their predictions, it is merely being used in the colloquial manner to emphasize their confidence, rather than requiring everything to be stated literally and subject to grammar review. This is a chatboard; people shouldn't need to study their APA style manual before they make a post.

But either way, none of this changes that a 20+ goal scorer and a 1st liner are different labels that mean different things, regardless of how many players fit both labels.

Against my better judgement to complete ignore this topic I feel that I need clarify something I'm being accused of.

I never said that Brunomics claimed to be "prescient." Obviously he was using hyperbole to express his confidence. That's exactly what I was pointing out! That we (in this case Brunomics with Bellows) have unrealistic (ridiculous I believe I called them) expectations of our prospects. Expecting a 20+ goal season from him in his rookie season is crazy, in my opinion. Especially when there was a very slim chance that he would make the team out of camp. Most of us knew he'd be in Bridgeport. That was my only point.

I apologize if I took the thread into a ridiculous semantics conversation. That was definitely my intent. Lord knows my grammar is far from perfect and I never have that expectation of others here.

And I guess I need to (again) clarify the 20+ goals/first liner thing. I said that if Bellows scores 20+ in his rookie year he will "most likely" be a first liner. And I stand by that. MOST rookies that score 20+ goals will in all likelihood be first liners.

The two bolded lines above are the only points I wanted to make in this thread.
 

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