The Star: A need for speed drives Leafs captain John Tavares in summer workouts

[JT AM da real deal]

Anyone been down to Ford to see if JT is any faster LOL .. da Toronto boys skating there everyday for a week or so now .. when this thread came up it kinda made me LOL

 

[ITM]

Washington? Nicklas Backstrom could miss all of next year or retire altogether.

Their goaltending solidified and Backstrom's (return or) LTIR money don't spell the end of the Capitals chances this season to me. We'll see. I just think they deserve a mention.

 

[Uncus13]

IMHO the only difference between Bergeron and Tavares is that one was blessed with a star winger named Marchand and the other ... not so much (Nylander).
Now isn't it funny that you never hear about Bergeron's speed being an issue? Tavares is more talented than Bergeron and just as quick and fast.
God, we love to cannibalize our own.

 

[JL17]

IMHO the only difference between Bergeron and Tavares is that one was blessed with a star winger named Marchand and the other ... not so much (Nylander).
Now isn't it funny that you never hear about Bergeron's speed being an issue? Tavares is more talented than Bergeron and just as quick and fast.
God, we love to cannibalize our own.

Must be tough to put up north of 80 points in the NHL and be considered not so much of a star. Nylander still managed to do that while a second line didn’t perform.

 

[Racer88]

IMHO the only difference between Bergeron and Tavares is that one was blessed with a star winger named Marchand and the other ... not so much (Nylander).
Now isn't it funny that you never hear about Bergeron's speed being an issue? Tavares is more talented than Bergeron and just as quick and fast.
God, we love to cannibalize our own.

Does Bergeron make 11 million dollars

 

[AvroArrow]

Does Bergeron make 11 million dollars

For the millionth time, we are all aware Tavares shouldn't be getting paid 11M, but he is still an elite C in the game.

 

[Jackothy]

I'm still very much of the mind that you gotta split up Marner and Matthews. We've seen it before with Marner and Tavares and they were unreal. Whoever-Tavares-Marner is better than most teams first line and it would still basically be our second with Matthews and Nylander running the first - or at the very least you could say we have two first lines.

I know Matthews and Marner are incredible together, but Marner takes the Tavares line to the next level (they mesh better) and Nylander really isn't much of a downgrade for Matthews if at all...I legitimately feel like most teams would trade their first line for Bunting-Tavares-Marner, we just need to figure out the best LW fit for Matthews-Nylander - we might not have them on the team yet. IIt could be Knies or maybe we need to target someone in a trade.

 

[Racer88]

Unfortunately s

For the millionth time, we are all aware Tavares shouldn't be getting paid 11M, but he is still an elite C in the game.

Unfortunately some want to compare him to other players making way less on other teams with different cap allotment while ignoring his cap hit and how it has affected the construction of our teams

 

[AvroArrow]

Unfortunately s

Unfortunately some want to compare him to other players making way less on other teams with different cap allotment while ignoring his cap hit and how it has affected the construction of our teams

No we all know how it has affected the construction of our team, but him having a bad contract does not make him a bad player. We are stuck with his contract until he retires. Some people just want to keep shitting on his contract anytime anyone discusses him.

Also the cap is projected to rise quite a bit in 2 years, 9M increase I believe, it'll help with re-signing Matthews/Marner and it'll make the JT contract eat a lower percent of our cap hit, so there's that.

 

[Notsince67]

I'm still very much of the mind that you gotta split up Marner and Matthews. We've seen it before with Marner and Tavares and they were unreal. Whoever-Tavares-Marner is better than most teams first line and it would still basically be our second with Matthews and Nylander running the first - or at the very least you could say we have two first lines.

I know Matthews and Marner are incredible together, but Marner takes the Tavares line to the next level (they mesh better) and Nylander really isn't much of a downgrade for Matthews if at all...I legitimately feel like most teams would trade their first line for Bunting-Tavares-Marner, we just need to figure out the best LW fit for Matthews-Nylander - we might not have them on the team yet. IIt could be Knies or maybe we need to target someone in a trade.

uhh.....you have evidence for this? We have seen them play together and the Tavares Marner line was better.
Matthews is a great player but he he doesnt get anywhere near 60 swapping Marner for Nylander

 

[Notsince67]

Unfortunately s

Unfortunately some want to compare him to other players making way less on other teams with different cap allotment while ignoring his cap hit and how it has affected the construction of our teams

Still on this? You have yet to respond on the playoff performance of the top paid forwards of TB against the leafs relative to salary cap.
Academically all dogs can hunt but practically, not ever one can. You theories are akin to the latter.

 

[notbias]

Unfortunately s

Unfortunately some want to compare him to other players making way less on other teams with different cap allotment while ignoring his cap hit and how it has affected the construction of our teams

Funny how Bunting gets compared to Hyman usually and not his peers making 950k or how Kerfoot doesn't get compared to other 3.5 million dollar players.

 

[Uncus13]

I'm still very much of the mind that you gotta split up Marner and Matthews. We've seen it before with Marner and Tavares and they were unreal. Whoever-Tavares-Marner is better than most teams first line and it would still basically be our second with Matthews and Nylander running the first - or at the very least you could say we have two first lines.

I know Matthews and Marner are incredible together, but Marner takes the Tavares line to the next level (they mesh better) and Nylander really isn't much of a downgrade for Matthews if at all...I legitimately feel like most teams would trade their first line for Bunting-Tavares-Marner, we just need to figure out the best LW fit for Matthews-Nylander - we might not have them on the team yet. IIt could be Knies or maybe we need to target someone in a trade.

Nylander doesn't mesh well with Matthews

 

[Uncus13]

Nylander needs a line of his own ... he wasn't a good fit before with Matthews and he isn't with Tavares when you unsaddle him from Tavares, you will probably see a happier Tavares jmho

comment from Matthews when willie wants to go, can he ever go.. and then the oh it is just willie being willie.

 

[Jackothy]

uhh.....you have evidence for this? We have seen them play together and the Tavares Marner line was better.
Matthews is a great player but he he doesnt get anywhere near 60 swapping Marner for Nylander

uhhh....do you have evidence for this?

Matthews is the best goal scorer since Ovi and already in the conversation for best all-time. He scored 40 as a rookie (with Nylander on his wing much of the time) and has paced 50+ without Marner being glued to his wing (2019-20). Hell he paced 45 goals in 18-19 with garbage Babcock deployment and spending the majority of his time (25.2%) with Kapanen and Marleau and the next largest amount (17.4%) being Kapanen and Johnsson (both third liners at best presently). Matthews doesn't need Marner to score 50+ goals, he proabbly doesn't even need Nylander to do it....But Nylander is a hell of a player in his own right and we know that he and Matthews have had chemistry and we know that Nylander is also a very, very good playmaker (46 assists on the second line). Does Matthews get 50 in 50 without Marner? Likely not, but I honestly think it's absurd to suggest 'he doesn't get anywhere near 60' swapping Marner and Nylander.

If the Tavares-Marner line is better than the Matthews-Nylander line than that's a good problem to have, because whatever line Matthews is on still has one of the premier players in the league on it (and a PPG top-tier player in Nylander) and any team would be insane to put their second tier players against them - but it would also be foolish to put them out against Tavares-Marner which is what makes us a deadly team. We've tried going top heavy the last 3 playoffs and we can't win a round and that line can be stiffled...which leads me to believe that it's time to try spreading it out.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Does Bergeron make 11 million dollars

No, he just signed for 2.5M.

 

[Notsince67]

uhhh....do you have evidence for this?

Matthews is the best goal scorer since Ovi and already in the conversation for best all-time. He scored 40 as a rookie (with Nylander on his wing much of the time) and has paced 50+ without Marner being glued to his wing (2019-20). Hell he paced 45 goals in 18-19 with garbage Babcock deployment and spending the majority of his time (25.2%) with Kapanen and Marleau and the next largest amount (17.4%) being Kapanen and Johnsson (both third liners at best presently). Matthews doesn't need Marner to score 50+ goals, he proabbly doesn't even need Nylander to do it....But Nylander is a hell of a player in his own right and we know that he and Matthews have had chemistry and we know that Nylander is also a very, very good playmaker (46 assists on the second line). Does Matthews get 50 in 50 without Marner? Likely not, but I honestly think it's absurd to suggest 'he doesn't get anywhere near 60' swapping Marner and Nylander.

If the Tavares-Marner line is better than the Matthews-Nylander line than that's a good problem to have, because whatever line Matthews is on still has one of the premier players in the league on it (and a PPG top-tier player in Nylander) and any team would be insane to put their second tier players against them - but it would also be foolish to put them out against Tavares-Marner which is what makes us a deadly team. We've tried going top heavy the last 3 playoffs and we can't win a round and that line can be stiffled...which leads me to believe that it's time to try spreading it out.

My evidence is the historical record. Nylander doesn't really move the needle relative to marner in facilitating big years for players.

 

[Jackothy]

My evidence is the historical record. Nylander doesn't really move the needle relative to marner in facilitating big years for players.

You said he wouldn't get anywhere near 60, which to me suggests < 50. I provided evidence suggesting that we would very likely get > 50 with Nylander. Your evidence isn't evidence and it's misguided. I concede that yes, he probably doesn't get 50 in 50 and I'll say now that me saying Marner to Nylander might not be a downgrade at all was silly, but my point is Matthews can carry a line by himself and still dominate and probably score 50+ goals (see 2018-19 when he paced 45 as a less experienced player with a third liner in Kapanen and a near 40 year old Marleau - neither of whom are half the playmaker that Nylander is).

 

[Notsince67]

You said he wouldn't get anywhere near 60, which to me suggests < 50. I provided evidence suggesting that we would very likely get > 50 with Nylander. Your evidence isn't evidence and it's misguided. I concede that yes, he probably doesn't get 50 in 50 and I'll say now that me saying Marner to Nylander might not be a downgrade at all was silly, but my point is Matthews can carry a line by himself and still dominate and probably score 50+ goals (see 2018-19 when he paced 45 as a less experienced player with a third liner in Kapanen and a near 40 year old Marleau - neither of whom are half the playmaker that Nylander is).

You realize the difference between 50 and 60 is 20%, right?

 

[Jackothy]

You realize the difference between 50 and 60 is 20%, right?

Okay. Thank you for sharing that with me.

 

[Stephen]

IMHO the only difference between Bergeron and Tavares is that one was blessed with a star winger named Marchand and the other ... not so much (Nylander).
Now isn't it funny that you never hear about Bergeron's speed being an issue? Tavares is more talented than Bergeron and just as quick and fast.
God, we love to cannibalize our own.

For context, Patrice Bergeron made less money on his deal than William Nylander himself on his last contract...

The very idea of an $11 million center who needs a $7 million star winger to make him look better is probably the root cause of any negativity towards Tavares.

 

[Maple Leaf]

No, he just signed for 2.5M.

Kadri > Taveres

 

[CanadasTeam]

IMHO the only difference between Bergeron and Tavares is that one was blessed with a star winger named Marchand and the other ... not so much (Nylander).
Now isn't it funny that you never hear about Bergeron's speed being an issue? Tavares is more talented than Bergeron and just as quick and fast.
God, we love to cannibalize our own.

It's Bergeron's defensive game and playmaking ability is where he excels, Tavares not so much. Need I remind you Bergeron is a 5-time Selke trophy winner.

 

[mikeyz]

IMHO the only difference between Bergeron and Tavares is that one was blessed with a star winger named Marchand and the other ... not so much (Nylander).
Now isn't it funny that you never hear about Bergeron's speed being an issue? Tavares is more talented than Bergeron and just as quick and fast.
God, we love to cannibalize our own.

Okay, now compare how much each of them make respectively.

Does Bergeron make 11 million dollars

Lol. Beat me to it.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Kadri > Taveres

That is not right.