The Star: A need for speed drives Leafs captain John Tavares in summer workouts

[Stephen]

What people aren’t remembering about that era of Bruins was all of them took discounts to try and win. When Chara was captain, that was a big issue for him. Making sure everyone was pulling the line together, and that meant taking discounts to keep the crew together.

So no, Tavares doesn’t have Bergeron beat. At least B was willing to take a discount to win, as were the other top tier players on that team. Something NO one on this team has done yet (except Spezza and Gio).

Bruins sign gritty Bergeron to eight-year extension

Patrice Bergeron, who led the Boston Bruins in post-season goals and played the Stanley Cup Finals with a punctured lung, was rewarded with an eight-year $52 million contract extension, the NHL team said on Friday.

www.reuters.com

When Bergeron signed that contract in 2013, he was already a Selke/King Clancy winner who won a Stanley Cup in 2011 and was coming off a finals run in 2013, and he only took up 10.69% of the cap.

Patrice Bergeron Contract, Cap Hit, Salary and Stats - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Patrice Bergeron contract, salary, cap hit, salary cap, aav, career earnings, lifetime earnings, aav, advanced stats, transaction history, trade history, and rfa or ufa free agent status

www.capfriendly.com

Just for historical reference, Phil Kessel re-signed in Toronto in 2013 (same calendar year) and that took up 12.44% of the cap. Dion Phaneuf re-signed in 2013 and his contract was 10.89% of the cap. So Bergeron was always pretty team friendly even after winning a championship.

Phil Kessel Contract, Cap Hit, Salary and Stats - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Phil Kessel contract, salary, cap hit, salary cap, aav, career earnings, lifetime earnings, aav, advanced stats, transaction history, trade history, and rfa or ufa free agent status

www.capfriendly.com

Dion Phaneuf Contract, Cap Hit, Salary and Stats - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Dion Phaneuf contract, salary, cap hit, salary cap, aav, career earnings, lifetime earnings, aav, advanced stats, transaction history, trade history, and rfa or ufa free agent status

www.capfriendly.com

 

[Dekes For Days]

Do you believe his big deal after winning the selke was so low because boston wouldnt pay with the health risk and bergeron made a mistake signing for so many years while trying to get said health back on track

Bergeron's 8 year contract wasn't low or team friendly. He got 10.69% through ages 29-37 as a ~60 point forward. His health was mainly a concern for his previous contract, which is probably why it was only 3 years.

 

[mclaren55]

Bergeron's 8 year contract wasn't low or team friendly. He got 10.69% through ages 29-37 as a ~60 point forward. His health was mainly a concern for his previous contract, which is probably why it was only 3 years.

Yea, a 60 point forward in a lower scoring era whilst being one of the best defensive forwards of a generation, he still took less CH% than any of our big 4. Even after winning multiple awards and a cup.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yea, a 60 point forward in a lower scoring era whilst being one of the best defensive forwards of a generation, he still took less CH% than any of our big 4.

The extent that it was "lower scoring" is very minimal, especially relative to the timeframes our players were signed off of. That does not come close to making up the significant gap in their production levels. Bergeron got less CH% than our big 3 (Nylander is less FYI) because he unquestionably deserved less CH% than our big 3, not because he took a discount.

He wasn't "one of the best defensive forwards of a generation" at that point, for the record. He had one Selke, but most people didn't even consider him the best defensive forward in the league at the time. That was largely considered to be Datsyuk or Toews. His high-end defensive abilities are probably why he actually got a higher CH% than a 60 point player typically would through ages 29-37.

 

[mclaren55]

The extent that it was "lower scoring" is very minimal, especially relative to the timeframes our players were signed off of. That does not come close to making up the significant gap in their production levels. Bergeron got less CH% than our big 3 (Nylander is less FYI) because he unquestionably deserved less CH% than our big 3, not because he took a discount.

He wasn't "one of the best defensive forwards of a generation" at that point, for the record. He had one Selke, but most people didn't even consider him the best defensive forward in the league at the time. That was largely considered to be Datsyuk or Toews. His high-end defensive abilities are probably why he actually got a higher CH% than a 60 point player typically would through ages 29-37.

He quite literally was and is one of the best defensive forwards of a generation, that doesn’t mean Datsyuk and Toews aren’t as well. Both statements can be true.

Look I’m not going to continue arguing about something I know as fact. It was stated in the media at the time that all of the Boston guys wanted to stay together and did what they could.

Bergeron was the leading scorer for Canada in 2010, scored twice in the final cup winning game for Boston, including the winner. Has been commended his entire career for his character and leadership. Triple gold member (26th). He brings A LOT more proven ability in the clutch than any player in our organization has exhibited their entire careers (thus far).

Your mental gymnastics to diminish such an accomplished player to prop up your own delusions is concerning.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He quite literally was and is one of the best defensive forwards of a generation, that doesn’t mean Datsyuk and Toews aren’t as well. Both statements can be true.

Look I’m not going to continue arguing about something I know as fact. It was stated in the media at the time that all of the Boston guys wanted to stay together and did what they could.

Bergeron was the leading scorer for Canada in 2010, scored twice in the final cup winning game for Boston, including the winner. Has been commended his entire career for his character and leadership. Triple gold member (26th).

No, he quite literally was not considered "one of the best defensive forwards of a generation" when he signed that contract. That is a label that gained traction since that signing, as he improved, defied aging curves, and got 4 more Selkes. At the time, he was just considered one of the better (but not the best) defensive forwards in the league - which is why he got a bigger contract than your typical ~60 point forward through ages 29-37.

I don't really care what you think the media thought, or how "clutch" you think he is, or what you think of his "character" and "leadership", or what he did in international tournaments. That's all irrelevant to his contract. Fact is, he didn't take a discount. He just wasn't worth more at the time.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He quite literally was and is one of the best defensive forwards of a generation, that doesn’t mean Datsyuk and Toews aren’t as well. Both statements can be true.

Look I’m not going to continue arguing about something I know as fact. It was stated in the media at the time that all of the Boston guys wanted to stay together and did what they could.

Bergeron was the leading scorer for Canada in 2010, scored twice in the final cup winning game for Boston, including the winner. Has been commended his entire career for his character and leadership. Triple gold member (26th). He brings A LOT more proven ability in the clutch than any player in our organization has exhibited their entire careers (thus far).

Your mental gymnastics to diminish such an accomplished player to prop up your own delusions is concerning.

I'm not sure why you keep engaging with a poster who just keeps repeating the same argument, regardless of how often it's been disproven.

The point is that Bergeron wasn't signed by Dubas, therefore his contract could not possibly, under any circumstances, be better.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I'm not sure why you keep engaging with a poster who just keeps repeating the same argument, regardless of how often it's been disproven.
The point is that Bergeron wasn't signed by Dubas, therefore his contract could not possibly, under any circumstances, be better.

It hasn't been disproven at all. Everything I said was accurate and verifiable. This has nothing to do with Dubas. There are plenty of great contracts out there not signed by Dubas.
Bergeron's contract ended up quite good for the team, but signing a contract consistent with what you are and then improving and the cap going up isn't "taking a discount".

 

[notDatsyuk]

It hasn't been disproven at all. Everything I said was accurate and verifiable. This has nothing to do with Dubas. There are plenty of great contracts out there not signed by Dubas.
Bergeron's contract ended up quite good for the team, but signing a contract consistent with what you are and then improving and the cap going up isn't "taking a discount".

I do wish you had the decency to quote my entire post without editing it. Just one more reason I, and probably others, won't interact with you.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I do wish you had the decency to quote my entire post without editing it. Just one more reason I, and probably others, won't interact with you.

Not sure what you're even talking about. I did quote your whole post, and it wasn't edited. In fact, you're the one who avoided quoting me when you made false comments about me and my argument to another user. If you don't want to interact with me, don't talk about me at all.

 

[andora]

I'm not sure why you keep engaging with a poster who just keeps repeating the same argument, regardless of how often it's been disproven.

The point is that Bergeron wasn't signed by Dubas, therefore his contract could not possibly, under any circumstances, be better.

Considering that 8 year deal was essentially his ufa contract (due to the unique 3 yr deal mixed in) noone can convince me he didnt take less than what was available.

Selke winner and numerous top finisher
King clancy winner
Exceptional 3 zone player
Elite faceoffs
Mid tier top line offense

:edit: i should change numerous so i dont get called out on a technicality

2 top five finishes then the third year won the selke.. yeah it was a trend and a safe bet they had a perennial selke contender

 

[notDatsyuk]

Not sure what you're even talking about. I did quote your whole post, and it wasn't edited. In fact, you're the one who avoided quoting me when you made false comments about me and my argument to another user. If you don't want to interact with me, don't talk about me at all.

You can't even admit something that simple!

 

[HockeyVirus]

As I said before, Tavares has the blessing/curse of being on the same team as Matthews and Marner. He's a PPG center and if he was on other teams would be seen as a #1C like Barzal is no questions asked. However, he is compared to a generational goal scorer and a top 10 NHL player in Marner.

He simply isn't as good as them, but he has been as good as he always has been. When we signed him, I remember an Islanders fan saying something like "I can't wait for Tavares to have his quiet stretch and see the media roast him" and they were bang on. He can be invisible at times and is hot and cold...but so is the majority of the NHL stars or not. Matthews is so unique in that he can perform each night.

So with all of that said, I think if he is able to get just a bit quicker and if we can find him linemates who play the same style he will have major success. He is a grinder, and Leafs are insistent on playing him with Nylander who is a rush player. The two simply do not think the game the same way.

Tavares would do best with Bunting and Hyman on his wings to establish a cycle and let him get to the netfront and use his hands. That is his bread and butter. Instead, he tries to wheel and deal with Nylander and deke through players and that is simply not what makes him elite.

Management has failed Tavares more than anyone because they insist on forcing two players together because of their contracts. Nylander should be running his own line with Kerfoot and someone else who likes to score off the rush. Tavares would play better with 4th line grinders than Nylander tbh

 

[Notsince67]

I have been a long time believer that Nylander would make an Elite 2C.

Bunting Matthews Marner
Tavares Nylander Jarnkrok

Nylander has never had the defensive chops to play center on a top line. As a winger, he isn't great so forget center

 

[Dekes For Days]

Considering that 8 year deal was essentially his ufa contract (due to the unique 3 yr deal mixed in) noone can convince me he didnt take less than what was available.

Selke winner and numerous top finisher
King clancy winner
Exceptional 3 zone player
Elite faceoffs
Mid tier top line offense

:edit: i should change numerous so i dont get called out on a technicality

2 top five finishes then the third year won the selke.. yeah it was a trend and a safe bet they had a perennial selke contender

I like how the King Clancy trophy was included, as if that has any relevance to his contract. It's funny, because if the Leafs signed a good defensive ~20 goal, ~60 point player this offseason to an 8.82m contract until they were 37, this place would be on literal fire, but because Boston did it, suddenly it's a "discount".

You can't even admit something that simple!

There's nothing to "admit". Your claim was false.

 

[All Mod Cons]

He quite literally was and is one of the best defensive forwards of a generation, that doesn’t mean Datsyuk and Toews aren’t as well. Both statements can be true.

Look I’m not going to continue arguing about something I know as fact. It was stated in the media at the time that all of the Boston guys wanted to stay together and did what they could.

Bergeron was the leading scorer for Canada in 2010, scored twice in the final cup winning game for Boston, including the winner. Has been commended his entire career for his character and leadership. Triple gold member (26th). He brings A LOT more proven ability in the clutch than any player in our organization has exhibited their entire careers (thus far).

Your mental gymnastics to diminish such an accomplished player to prop up your own delusions is concerning.

Dude, he's trolling you. Walk away and save your sanity.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

I like how the King Clancy trophy was included, as if that has any relevance to his contract. It's funny, because if the Leafs signed a good defensive ~20 goal, ~60 point player this offseason to an 8.82m contract until they were 37, this place would be on literal fire, but because Boston did it, suddenly it's a "discount".

There's nothing to "admit". Your claim was false.

No, what's funny is that if we signed 14/15 Bergeron to 8.82 mil today, not only would the majority be okay with it but YOU would be helping to convince anyone not okay with it (i.e You would be propping him up big time), that it is okay. So just drop the act already.

 

[andora]

I like how the King Clancy trophy was included, as if that has any relevance to his contract. It's funny, because if the Leafs signed a good defensive ~20 goal, ~60 point player this offseason to an 8.82m contract until they were 37, this place would be on literal fire, but because Boston did it, suddenly it's a "discount".

There's nothing to "admit". Your claim was false.

Oh go away

If we signed a 27 year bergeron to that yeah we would probably be pretty happy

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Nylander has never had the defensive chops to play center on a top line. As a winger, he isn't great so forget center

*desire

 

[Dekes For Days]

No, what's funny is that if we signed 14/15 Bergeron to 8.82 mil today, not only would the majority be okay with it but YOU would be helping to convince anyone not okay with it (i.e You would be propping him up big time), that it is okay.

If we signed a 27 year bergeron to that yeah we would probably be pretty happy

His contract was from age 29-37, not 27, and if we signed the equivalent, this place would be on fire with a large portion declaring it a horrible contract. I wouldn't be a huge fan of the age it went to, but I probably would be fine with it, because the contract was "okay". The argument isn't whether the contract was "okay" though. The issue here is that some people are pretending that it was a discount when it obviously wasn't.

 

[ACC1224]

Oh go away

If we signed a 27 year bergeron to that yeah we would probably be pretty happy

Happy?? We'd be in absolute shock to get an elite player on a discount.

 

[andora]

Happy?? We'd be in absolute shock to get an elite player on a discount.

depends on if we're takling about bergeron or a 60 point center that backchecks lol

 

[Notsince67]

*desire

Just like I have no desire to play in the NHL

 

[therealkoho]

People really need to stop whining about the decline of this guy. Say what you want about him but the guy's a gud pro and I'll wager to say that there is not one player on our team who wants to win the cup next season more than him.

Atta boy JT, keep setting that good example like a captain should!

he really does need a comeback season though after that horrendous, just a hair under a point per game he put up last year

 

[Gary Nylund]

Exactly right.
Bruins always showed that no player is bigger than the team, a lesson Dubas has yet to learn.

So it's somehow the fault of the GM when players don't sign for discounts?

Maybe think about what the word discount actually means, that is if your hatred for Dubas hasn't completely erased your ability to think.