Speculation: 91 - Fedorov Jersey Retirement?

[Retire91]

I think Fedorov gets widely misunderstood because the offer sheet and his UFA departure cloud up people's feelings. Fedorov was part of the community I got to meet him several times and he was always courteous and generous and never gave me that don't bother me vibe.

The other perception about his "lazyness" or lack of care I think came from two sources. One the largely perpetuated stereotype at the time that you can't win with Russians. And the simple fact that he was so good at the game he made it look effortless. Fedorov lost his skate edge a lot and went into the boards hard and if you search your memory you'll recall many times the long pause he had on the ice after sliding into the boards at his speed. There were many games it wasn't worth going full tilt. But you know what in the playoffs he left nothing on the ice and he has the resume of one of the best playoff performers in NHL history.

He is the first red wing to win the hart since gordie howe. They awarded him the best player on the planet award and he deserved it. The things Yzerman Lidstrom have on him is the career longjevity, and the world class leadership. Fedorov never had to lead the team, in Russia those slots were taken, here we had Yzerman. Fedorov was the run and gun he didn't need to hold the lockerroom together. We are talking about a team that had the leadership spot filled Larianov, Fetisov, Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Chelios... He didn't need to be a leader and I think he would have been if called upon.

I can understand people's feelings on this. In many ways its my main understanding of why he is not retired, if so many fans feel the way they do then its gray area. A jersey retirement is a celebration of the fans as much as the player. I wouldn't want people to be steadfast against it. That is not the point of retirement IMO. My favorite players number is retired in my mind and that is good enough for me.

Fedorov Gives Salary to Charity

DETROIT (AP) _ Detroit Red Wings star Sergei Fedorov is contributing his entire $2 million salary for 1998-99 to a new charity that will help area children.

apnews.com

 

[Frk It]

I think retired numbers should be reserved for not only someone who had exemplary performance with the team, but who demonstrated strong characteristics as a leader on the team and within the community.

Since jersey numbers are finite, retiring them should be reserved for the most elite players/persons. Fedorov was no doubt an elite player when he played for the Wings, but was he also an elite person akin to someone like Stevie Y or Nick Lidstrom? I feel the same about Datsyuk, my favorite player to watch and the only Wings jersey I own. Great player, but nothing stood out as a leader on the team or within the community.

I don't know, but if I was an owner I would be really appreciative of the players that helped grow my brand or fanbase. (In addition to being great players, obviously)

How many people world-wide are Red Wings fans because of Datsyuk, Fedorov, Zetterberg, or some combo of the 3?

I would say a ton.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Pavel and Henrik didn't try to personally bankrupt and destroy Mike Ilitch empire. Fedorov should NEVER go into the rafters for that reason. Full stop. I don't care if he was "going though things". His actions have ramifications. Keep 91 out of circulation, but he doesn't deserve the honor of the number in the rafters or the night honoring him.

Neither did Fedorov.

Jimmy Develano is that you? The Wings were playing hardball with Fedorov and with the offer sheet he was caught in the middle of a pissing contest between two billionaires in Ilitch and Karmanos.

It was during an era of offer sheets. Joe Sakic signed one. Tkachuk signed one. And I don't support the "loyalty" argument considering how the Wings treated Fedorov in his final contract negotiation.

Fedorov's number should absolutely be in the rafters, and before Zetterberg, and certainly before Datsyuk.

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

The people who don’t want 91 retired feel that way because they get too attached to players and forget that professional sports are, above all else, a business.

We get it, you loved Fedorov (I did when I was a child too) and even felt like you were on a first name basis with him. So when he left, it felt like daddy walked out on the family. Just because you got your feelings hurt and act like a man child when an athlete makes a business decision, doesn’t mean he shouldn’t get his number retired 20 years later, like he deserves.

He accomplished things in Detroit that Yzerman and Lidstrom never did (not to suggest he’s better than either player) and often was the straw that stirred the drink.

Also, while Zetterberg and Datsyuk were very good players, I don’t think you retire 40 or 13. I think Datsyuk has a better case than Zetterberg, though. To me, if you retire 40 and 13 then you have to give Shanahan serious consideration as well (his ppg are the same as Zetterberg’s plus he won more cups).

 

[GMR]

Why not Marcel Pronovost, Syd Howe, Ebbie Goodfellow, Norm Ullman, even Herbie Lewis and Larry Aurie?

Marcel Pronovost

Marcel Pronovost Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Marcel Pronovost. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Ebbie Goodfellow

Ebbie Goodfellow Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Ebbie Goodfellow. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Syd Howe

Syd Howe Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Syd Howe. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Norm Ullman

Norm Ullman Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Norm Ullman. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

I understand that Detroit currently has very high standards that exceed those four excellent players, but if you start including Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg, I fail to see why you wouldn't include say Ebbie Goodfellow. Are they any better than him, and if you think so, why?

The Wings are poor at honoring pre WW2 players. They won several Cups in the 30's and had some terrific players. You never hear about them. Maybe it's because they had goofy names or because one of them had the same last name as Detroit's best ever player. Maybe pre WW2 is considered too old by this franchise, like with some other original 6 teams. It's unfortunate.

Pronovost and Ullman are both post-WW2 but they have weaker cases than Fedorov.

Then again, this franchise has a different standard. The unofficial criteria is you must play over 12 years at an incredibly high level. Fedorov should qualify but he's not in the same league as Yzerman, Lidstrom, Lindsay, Howe, etc. His name doesn't jump out like the others Detroit retired.

Also, I saw his name mentioned earlier but Osgood isn't getting his jersey retired and isn't going into the HOF. That's not reality IMO.

 

[Left handed]

I don't know, but if I was an owner I would be really appreciative of the players that helped grow my brand or fanbase. (In addition to being great players, obviously)

How many people world-wide are Red Wings fans because of Datsyuk, Fedorov, Zetterberg, or some combo of the 3?

I would say a ton.

Back to my original statement that it should be reserved for a highly elite class of former players.

If, according to your reasoning, we are to retire jersey numbers for players who grew the Wings' brand, then why not Shanahan, Hasek, Chelios, Murphy, Osgood, Hull, McCarty, etc.?

There obviously has to be a limited criteria, or else we'd be retiring a lot more numbers.

 

[Frk It]

Back to my original statement that it should be reserved for a highly elite class of former players.

If, according to your reasoning, we are to retire jersey numbers for players who grew the Wings' brand, then why not Shanahan, Hasek, Chelios, Murphy, Osgood, Hull, McCarty, etc.?

There obviously has to be a limited criteria, or else we'd be retiring a lot more numbers.

Those players were nowhere near as iconic as Fedorov or Datsyuk.

Datsyuk was like the hockey version of Ronaldinho.

Datsyuk is the (main) reason I became a Wings fan and got into watching NHL hockey. Find me someone who can say that about Chris Osgood.

All 3 of those guys also are ‘highly elite’ in my book (Datsyuk, Fedorov, Zetterberg).

 

[Left handed]

Those players were nowhere near as iconic as Fedorov or Datsyuk.

Datsyuk was like the hockey version of Ronaldinho.

Datsyuk is the reason I became a Wings fan and got into watching NHL hockey. Find me someone who can say that about Chris Osgood.

All 3 of those guys also are ‘highly elite’ in my book (Datsyuk, Fedorov, Zetterberg).

I don't mean to age myself (or you), but I think it depends on when you started watching.

Shannahan, Murphy, Osgood, and Hasek were critical pieces of the teams that won the first several Cups in decades. Murphy solidified our blue line with Lidstrom and helped them lift the Cup in 96-97. Shannahan brought much needed grit to get through power houses like Philly and Colorado. Osgood stood on his head quite a bit for the team and was our #1 for nearly a decade. I still remember the "Ozzy, Ozzy, Ozzy..." chants. And Hasek was one of the most exciting goaltenders the league has ever seen and helped us win another Cup.

Again, I'm not arguing about whether Datsyuk or Fedorov brought great value to this organization. I'm merely pointing out that you need to draw the line somewhere and where is that exactly.

 

[Frk It]

I don't mean to age myself (or you), but I think it depends on when you started watching.

Shannahan, Murphy, Osgood, and Hasek were critical pieces of the teams that won the first several Cups in decades. Murphy solidified our blue line with Lidstrom and helped them lift the Cup in 96-97. Shannahan brought much needed grit to get through power houses like Philly and Colorado. Osgood stood on his head quite a bit for the team and was our #1 for nearly a decade. I still remember the "Ozzy, Ozzy, Ozzy..." chants. And Hasek was one of the most exciting goaltenders the league has ever seen and helped us win another Cup.

Again, I'm not arguing about whether Datsyuk or Fedorov brought great value to this organization. I'm merely pointing out that you need to draw the line somewhere and where is that exactly.

Those are good points, I did get into hockey a little later and may also be younger than you. I played soccer growing up for the most part. (Why I compared Datsyuk to Ronaldinho probably). I had one friend that played organized hockey growing up (our town was too small to have a team) and we played pond hockey at his house and he got us all into the game. I think this was around 2001?

Datsyuk and Zetterberg are pretty special for me, I think they were top 3-5 players in the league in their prime. I loved that whole Euro Twin era and their story as later round picks. Guys who extended the playoff streak, won a lot of games, and were dynamite together.

I understand Detroit has really lofty jersey retirement standards, but hard to see how they aren’t deserving for me with what they were as players.

I guess I also fall more into the “separate the art from the artist” camp more than others. If we are talking about retiring someone’s hockey jersey then what they did on the ice is what matters the most to me.

So I probably don’t have the animosity (emotion) people have towards Datsyuk or Fedorov too much. Fedorov really was before my time for the most part, but when I hear people talk about him, or if I watch those old games, you just get he was just a transcendent talent.

If Datsyuk and Zetterberg weren’t good enough to have their jerseys retired I don’t know we will ever retire another jersey, and I think that’s pretty silly. They were top 3-5 players in their prime.. what’s our standard you have to be unequivocally #1 in the league for awhile? Like that’s crazy.

 

[Left handed]

Those are good points, I did get into hockey a little later and may also be younger than you. I played soccer growing up for the most part. (Why I compared Datsyuk to Ronaldinho probably… thar was my fav soccer player at this time). I had one friend that played organized hockey growing up (our town was too small to have a team) and we played pond hockey at his house and he got us all into the game. I think this was around 2000-2001?

Datsyuk and Zetterberg are pretty special for me, and I think they were top 3-5 players in the league in their prime. I loved that whole Euro Twin era and their story as later round picks. Guys who extended our playoff streak, won a lot of games, and were dynamite together.

I understand Detroit has really lofty jersey retirement standards, but hard to see how they aren’t deserving for me with what they were as players.

I guess I also fall more into the “separate the art from the artist” camp more than others. If we are talking about retiring someone’s hockey jersey then what they did on the ice is what matters the most to me.

So I probably don’t have the animosity (emotion) people have towards Datsyuk or Fedorov too much. Fedorov really was before my time for the most part, but when I hear people talk about him, or if I watch those old games, you just get he was just a transcendent talent.

If Datsyuk and Zetterberg weren’t good enough to have their jerseys retired I don’t know we will ever retire another jersey, and I think that’s pretty silly. They were top 3-5 players in their prime.. what’s our standard you have to be unequivocally #1 in the league for awhile? Like that’s crazy.

I started watching hockey around 1994, shortly after I got into Lemieux Hockey on the Sega Genesis.

I remember that Fedorov was a great offensive talent for the Wings, but nothing particularly stands out to me when I think back to him or his style of play. He did have a couple of 100+ point seasons, which is pretty spectacular. My memory just doesn't serve me well with regards to him.

I think I remember more about Datsyuk and his razzle-dazzle style, but maybe that's recency bias setting in. If anyone in this discussion is most deserving, it might be Datsyuk just because of the imprint he left on this team and the league. He was Trevor Zegras before Trevor Zegras. The only problem with him is how he faded on the team while still under contract.

Zetterberg was a big reason why we won the Cup in 2008. He had a great season that year. He was a good leader by example during his time as captain. But I can't quite contend that he had the same type of impact as guys like Lidstrom or Yzerman, who are the most recent retired numbers.

 

[jkutswings]

I don't see why it's challenging to set criteria.

1) Perennial All Star-caliber talent.
2) Extensive hardware and/or multiple Cups.

Fedorov, Shanahan, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg meet both. Osgood meets #2 but not #1.

/thread

 

[InGusWeTrust]

The Wings are poor at honoring pre WW2 players. They won several Cups in the 30's and had some terrific players. You never hear about them. Maybe it's because they had goofy names or because one of them had the same last name as Detroit's best ever player. Maybe pre WW2 is considered too old by this franchise, like with some other original 6 teams. It's unfortunate.

Pronovost and Ullman are both post-WW2 but they have weaker cases than Fedorov.

Then again, this franchise has a different standard. The unofficial criteria is you must play over 12 years at an incredibly high level. Fedorov should qualify but he's not in the same league as Yzerman, Lidstrom, Lindsay, Howe, etc. His name doesn't jump out like the others Detroit retired.

Also, I saw his name mentioned earlier but Osgood isn't getting his jersey retired and isn't going into the HOF. That's not reality IMO.

I mentioned Osgood. I wasn’t making a case for his jersey to be retired but if you want to go compare stats with a handful of goalies in the hall. We don’t have to debate that here.

In response to the thread 91 should be highly considered to be hung in the rafters. These are hills I would die on. I love 13 and 40 and wore those numbers for much of my youth - I would not retire either.

91 was absolutely on the same level as most of them. He spent the best years of his career here and our front office shit on him. It’s documented at this point. There is no doubt in my mind it would’ve been raised had He signed that initial offer.

 

[PelagicJoe]

I don't see why it's challenging to set criteria.

1) Perennial All Star-caliber talent.
2) Extensive hardware and/or multiple Cups.

Fedorov, Shanahan, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg meet both. Osgood meets #2 but not #1.

/thread

#91 absolutely should have been in the rafters years ago. He has 3 cups, 2 Selkes, a Hart, and he's in the Hall.

#13 will eventually be up there. He was a lifelong Wing, won 2 cups, lots of Lady Byngs, amongst other achievements.

#14 was always one of my favorite players. I live in STL, so I got to see a lot of him even before he came to my favorite team. The only problem with him is that he wasn't a "lifelong Wing" nor did he start his career here, but he was still absolutely one of the final puzzle pieces along with Larry Murphy. He deserves an argument to be heard for it if nothing else.

#40, I think he gets up there, but it won't be until years after 91 and 13 do. I think he's the only one of the four that has a chance of not making it into the Hall of Fame despite his accolades and achievements.

 

[GMR]

I don't see why it's challenging to set criteria.

1) Perennial All Star-caliber talent.
2) Extensive hardware and/or multiple Cups.

Fedorov, Shanahan, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg meet both. Osgood meets #2 but not #1.

/thread

Because these four players don't compare to the players Detroit already retired. If you can't tell the difference between Howe, Lindsay, Sawchuk, Kelly, and Abel from the above players, you need to read up on hockey history. None of the players you listed are typically ranked in the top 50, and only Fedorov would rank in the top 100 on most knowledgeable lists.

I won't complain if Fedorov, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg get honored, but it would definitely lower the standards. Sawchuk is a top all-time 5 goalie. Kelly a top 10 defenseman. Lindsay is one of the best LW ever and an important advocate for players' rights. Abel was Detroit's captain during their heyday, a former MVP, and two time all-NHL team member. Plus, his best years were lost serving in the war. Howe is Mr. Hockey.

 

[jkutswings]

Because these four players don't compare to the players Detroit already retired. If you can't tell the difference between Howe, Lindsay, Sawchuk, Kelly, and Abel from the above players, you need to read up on hockey history. None of the players you listed are typically ranked in the top 50, and only Fedorov would rank in the top 100 on most knowledgeable lists.

I won't complain if Fedorov, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg get honored, but it would definitely lower the standards. Sawchuk is a top all-time 5 goalie. Kelly a top 10 defenseman. Lindsay is one of the best LW ever and an important advocate for players' rights. Abel was Detroit's captain during their heyday, a former MVP, and two time all-NHL team member. Plus, his best years were lost serving in the war. Howe is Mr. Hockey.

When did I imply that they are equivalent to the Production Line era greats? I'm saying the standard is overdue to change, because this franchise has had a lot of tremendous players. (Not to mention the players from decades before that should also be in the rafters.)

 

[GMR]

When did I imply that they are equivalent to the Production Line era greats? I'm saying the standard is overdue to change, because this franchise has had a lot of tremendous players. (Not to mention the players from decades before that should also be in the rafters.)

Why should the standard change? This franchise has its own standard and there's nothing wrong with it. Other franchises usually retire too many numbers. I think most Wings fans are content with who has been retired so far.

The only part I wish didn't happen was taking Aurie's jersey down because it's disrespectful; even if he didn't necessarily belong with the others.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Has there ever been an all star forward that also played defense like Fedorov did? That's so crazy when you think about him doing that

 

[PelagicJoe]

Has there ever been an all star forward that also played defense like Fedorov did? That's so crazy when you think about him doing that

Doesn't Ovechkin get put on defense during power plays sometimes?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Doesn't Ovechkin get put on defense during power plays sometimes?

That's not the same thing whatsoever. Fedorov played defense like Seider does for games....

 

[Snuggs]

Loved Fedorov. One of my favorite Red Wings of all-time.

Still... he did leave. For that alone, you can't do it. I'd say the same with Datsyuk. Zetterberg was the solider you'd love to raise the number for... but ultimately he wasn't really as generational honestly as the previous two mentioned and so for talent alone you can't put him up.

There are ONLY 7 or 8 numbers retired as a orig 6... I mean it is and should be a high-standard. Fedorovs the dude that like deserves it. He was pretty amazing to watch.

 

[1878rgw]

Because these four players don't compare to the players Detroit already retired. If you can't tell the difference between Howe, Lindsay, Sawchuk, Kelly, and Abel from the above players, you need to read up on hockey history. None of the players you listed are typically ranked in the top 50, and only Fedorov would rank in the top 100 on most knowledgeable lists.

In 2017 only Zetterberg is not Top 100 of those 4 players

NHL 100 Greatest Players | NHL.com

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

 

[Retire91]

Not bringing this up for comparison, but just feel it needs to be brought up. The wings traded both Sawchuk and Lindsay away... Being a life long wing is not a requirement for being in the rafters. Sid Abel played 12 seasons for the wings before leaving for Chicago.