GDT: 9/27 Boston Bruins @ Detroit Red Wings 7pm ET - Not on TV or Radio? :(

[TheReal13Linseman]

IF if if if if if if if IF Ville Leino has a 10 goal, 30 point season left in him it will be only the second time in his NHL career that he has hit such a lofty plateau.

And let's say he did put in what for Ville Leino would be a remarkable season... would we rather see kids than that meager stat line? Abso****inglutely.

Bruins braintrust has made the mistake of icing these bums in the past instead of going with younger talent. We have MORE talent in the pipe than previous years.

If Leino makes the team, it means one of two things:
Management gave the job to a player undeserving because he's a "vet."
or
Our kids are pretty ****ing terrible.

And either of those are positively intolerable and say a lot about where this franchise currently sits.

Not a bad point, but would it not be accurate to say that Caron has been one of those kids who has been lingering with us now for several seasons? That is, some kids pan out; some not, of course. I'm not saying you give the job to VL or Gagne unless they project to be better this season, but they are/have been NHLers. That does carry some weight.

This is like stock picking. Very difficult.

That said, while Chara is still not-yet-over-the-hill I think we have only a few years left to again "go for it", short money on low risk potentially high reward stocks, given our financial situation, doesn't really cause me much concern.

 

[DoubleAAAA]

IF if if if if if if if IF Ville Leino has a 10 goal, 30 point season left in him it will be only the second time in his NHL career that he has hit such a lofty plateau.

And let's say he did put in what for Ville Leino would be a remarkable season... would we rather see kids than that meager stat line? Abso****inglutely.

Bruins braintrust has made the mistake of icing these bums in the past instead of going with younger talent. We have MORE talent in the pipe than previous years.

If Leino makes the team, it means one of two things:
Management gave the job to a player undeserving because he's a "vet."
or
Our kids are pretty ****ing terrible.

And either of those are positively intolerable and say a lot about where this franchise currently sits.

Yeah what a dumpster fire this club is.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

which is surprising as it`s a year in which there appears to be the most open roster spots available, you`d think the coverage would be far more thorough

Oh well, not much I/We can do about it I guess

How has Soderberg appeared thus far?

Not to speak for Lou (WBC8), but he got to watch the game Friday night (he's in NJ), he said that Soderberg looked dominant and played "bigger" than last year.

I'm not picking on you alone, but rather, the group that shares your view on Lieno.

Has anyone here r-e-a-l-l-y followed this guy to say one way or the other that he'd be a disastrous acquisition here? Truthfully. That is to say, what if he had a 10 goal/30 point season left in him for short money?

Is it just that people want to see their parochial "kid" make it, because they are a longtime backer/armchair scout? (Seems to me like that's the case).

Our right wingers, assuming we get Smith signed are Grandma Louii, Smith, and Kelly. Doesn't exactly strike too much fear in the heart, does it.

I admit that I don't know what Ville can, or can not, do. Many here seem to be experts at this juncture. My hats off you those people (insert Jeff from Maine "snicker" here).

I guess I'm in the camp that would leave it to the Bruins braintrust to make the final judgment on this one.

I can't speak for the rest of the armchair GM's, but I am basing my not wanting Leino on the team on what I have seen of him in the recent past. Maybe he has found a Bartolo Colon-like fountain of youth, but I find that unlikely. It's probably more that he is an NHL Vet playing against a mix of NHL and AHL players. The problem is, he's not getting any better, but the rooks will as the season progresses.

If Leino grades out at say 85 and the rest of the rooks are 80 or below, great, but if he's an 85 and they are 83's, I go with one of the rooks. The B's are slow enough as it is (see the MTL series) without adding the speed challenged Leino. I don't mind two of Leino, Gagne, Campbell, Kelly, but all four?

Pass.

This is not based on any dislike of said players, it's based on the opinion that the B's should be developing more young forwards, and there are a couple of them (Fraser, Spooner) who are not going to get any better playing in the AHL. So, you are leaving this up to the same B's brain trust that brought Loui in and continues to believe in him (despite your opinions)???

Interesting.

 

[KnightofBoston]

Still waiting on Mikes rant, should be a good one

 

[Replicator]

Bruins win but everyone is disappointed because the goals were not scored by the right players...

This seriously doesn't make sense to you?

No, it doesn't.

It's probably worth just spelling it out here. It's the preseason. This is when all the teams experiment with players from their minor league affiliates and unsigned free agents. The Bruins are icing lines that will never be used in the season, and are playing against lines and players that they will never see again. So a win/loss that doesn't matter by temporary lineups against other temporary lineups is meaningless. It tells us nothing useful about either team.
What IS useful is how well those prospects who are likely to make the squad perform.
So if Ville Leino scores, we're looking at a player who is older, has a limited ceiling, and may have just gotten lucky. So we are worried that Clode will sign him instead of a better option. And since we didn't really see the game, we don't have any supporting evidence to interpret the game stats.

 

[C77]

IF if if if if if if if IF Ville Leino has a 10 goal, 30 point season left in him it will be only the second time in his NHL career that he has hit such a lofty plateau.

And let's say he did put in what for Ville Leino would be a remarkable season... would we rather see kids than that meager stat line? Abso****inglutely.

Bruins braintrust has made the mistake of icing these bums in the past instead of going with younger talent. We have MORE talent in the pipe than previous years.

If Leino makes the team, it means one of two things:
Management gave the job to a player undeserving because he's a "vet."
or
Our kids are pretty ****ing terrible.

And either of those are positively intolerable and say a lot about where this franchise currently sits.

1. 10 goals 30 points would be pretty good value assuming Leino is a 800K player.

2. There will be injuries. The Bruins have been rather fortunate the past few years with the forwards in this regard. If the team starts off with 3 or 4 rookies, what happens if two veterans get injured? You call up 2 more guys without NHL experience from Providence and then have 6 rookies in the forward group?

3. The Bruins are a cap team, they are going to need to move out a couple guys with professional (maybe even Cup final experience). Replacing those guys exclusively with kids could lead to a jump in the loss column.

4. Opinion here...I think our "kids" are somewhat overrated on this board. Spooner has good potential but he hasn't forced his way on the team, and apparently isn't doing that in this year's camp either. That said, he would be on my roster or traded.

5. Is Leino undeserving even if he has a good/great training camp?

6. Leino was a pretty decent player and not just one time. He got cut from a stacked Wings team with Babcock saying he was the best player he ever cut. (sure not exactly saying that he's a top 6 forward on a good team, but he has been an effective player in the past.) I don't understand why people aren't even willing to give the guy an opportunity. He has been injured and no one except Ryan Miller has excelled in Buffalo over the past few years.

7. How do we know that the kids are better than he is without really being able to see them on a daily basis?

8. And where is it exactly that this franchise sits? A place that has seen the team in the Cup Finals 2 times in the past 5 years with a President's trophy and several other playoff round victories to boot? I.E. why all the focus on the limited number of negative aspects of the Chiarelli management as opposed to all the positives? GM's are judged on wins and over the past five years I'm not sure any team has more of them than Boston. I agree that expectations should be high, but many people here are unreasonable. There are only 2 teams that have been "better" than Boston in the sense that they have 2 Cups each in this period. That means 27 teams have been worse.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Yeah what a dumpster fire this club is.

Yeah that's precisely what I said.

 

[DKH]

Not happy- time for gym and then football. Team softie

 

[TheReal13Linseman]

Not to speak for Lou (WBC8), but he got to watch the game Friday night (he's in NJ), he said that Soderberg looked dominant and played "bigger" than last year.








I can't speak for the rest of the armchair GM's, but I am basing my not wanting Leino on the team on what I have seen of him in the recent past. Maybe he has found a Bartolo Colon-like fountain of youth, but I find that unlikely. It's probably more that he is an NHL Vet playing against a mix of NHL and AHL players. The problem is, he's not getting any better, but the rooks will as the season progresses.

If Leino grades out at say 85 and the rest of the rooks are 80 or below, great, but if he's an 85 and they are 83's, I go with one of the rooks. The B's are slow enough as it is (see the MTL series) without adding the speed challenged Leino. I don't mind two of Leino, Gagne, Campbell, Kelly, but all four?

Pass.

This is not based on any dislike of said players, it's based on the opinion that the B's should be developing more young forwards, and there are a couple of them (Fraser, Spooner) who are not going to get any better playing in the AHL. So, you are leaving this up to the same B's brain trust that brought Loui in and continues to believe in him (despite your opinions)???

Interesting.

Chia has made some definite mistakes for certain; they screwed up the Eriksson deal and could definitely make more missteps. I don't think though that one could label (I am certainly not doing so) the Bruins braintrust as inept. I'm just saying that sometimes, reclamation projects can work out. Sometimes not. Given our cap situation, we've backed ourselves into a bit of a corner.

I think Fraser could be ready. Spooner, maybe; Clode keeps calling him out for his D play. But, I just don't think we have the luxury of casting aside guys who other teams, in different situations, cast off for one reason or another. Neither of these guys might be the next Recchi, granted. But, then again, I don't really know.

 

[ReggieMoto]

So if Ville Leino scores, we're looking at a player who is older, has a limited ceiling, and may have just gotten lucky. So we are worried that Clode will sign him instead of a better option.

Because he is such an idiot, him and that idiot of a GM that hired him, right?
Because we see stuff that the coach and GM cannot see, and we know things the coach and GM cannot know.

Just how full of ourselves and arrogant has this place actually become?

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Not a bad point, but would it not be accurate to say that Caron has been one of those kids who has been lingering with us now for several seasons? That is, some kids pan out; some not, of course. I'm not saying you give the job to VL or Gagne unless they project to be better this season, but they are/have been NHLers. That does carry some weight.

This is like stock picking. Very difficult.

That said, while Chara is still not-yet-over-the-hill I think we have only a few years left to again "go for it", short money on low risk potentially high reward stocks, given our financial situation, doesn't really cause me much concern.

It does. It causes me concern. I don't see Leino as high-reward stock. I think we know more or less what we're going to get and 30 points (as optimistic as it would be) isn't what I would call "high-reward." It's low-risk/low-reward and it's precisely the kind of move a team with a "Cup window" should be avoiding at all costs.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

1. 10 goals 30 points would be pretty good value assuming Leino is a 800K player.

2. There will be injuries. The Bruins have been rather fortunate the past few years with the forwards in this regard. If the team starts off with 3 or 4 rookies, what happens if two veterans get injured? You call up 2 more guys without NHL experience from Providence and then have 6 rookies in the forward group?

3. The Bruins are a cap team, they are going to need to move out a couple guys with professional (maybe even Cup final experience). Replacing those guys exclusively with kids could lead to a jump in the loss column.

4. Opinion here...I think our "kids" are somewhat overrated on this board. Spooner has good potential but he hasn't forced his way on the team, and apparently isn't doing that in this year's camp either. That said, he would be on my roster or traded.

5. Is Leino undeserving even if he has a good/great training camp?

6. Leino was a pretty decent player and not just one time. He got cut from a stacked Wings team with Babcock saying he was the best player he ever cut. (sure not exactly saying that he's a top 6 forward on a good team, but he has been an effective player in the past.) I don't understand why people aren't even willing to give the guy an opportunity. He has been injured and no one except Ryan Miller has excelled in Buffalo over the past few years.

7. How do we know that the kids are better than he is without really being able to see them on a daily basis?

8. And where is it exactly that this franchise sits? A place that has seen the team in the Cup Finals 2 times in the past 5 years with a President's trophy and several other playoff round victories to boot? I.E. why all the focus on the limited number of negative aspects of the Chiarelli management as opposed to all the positives? GM's are judged on wins and over the past five years I'm not sure any team has more of them than Boston. I agree that expectations should be high, but many people here are unreasonable. There are only 2 teams that have been "better" than Boston in the sense that they have 2 Cups each in this period. That means 27 teams have been worse.

Leino's only had 2 NHL seasons where he's played over 60 games. And one of those was a 19-34-53 season. In the playoffs he has played 37 games, 10-18-28 with a +11. He's only 30. However, like almost everyone up for the 3rd line RW job, he's a lefty who is not a right wing by trade.

 

[EverettMike]

Exactly, on top of being a 20 point guy mostly, he can't stay healthy.

Low reward.

Everyone pointing to his one outlier season is missing what he really is.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

1. 10 goals 30 points would be pretty good value assuming Leino is a 800K player.

2. There will be injuries. The Bruins have been rather fortunate the past few years with the forwards in this regard. If the team starts off with 3 or 4 rookies, what happens if two veterans get injured? You call up 2 more guys without NHL experience from Providence and then have 6 rookies in the forward group?

3. The Bruins are a cap team, they are going to need to move out a couple guys with professional (maybe even Cup final experience). Replacing those guys exclusively with kids could lead to a jump in the loss column.

4. Opinion here...I think our "kids" are somewhat overrated on this board. Spooner has good potential but he hasn't forced his way on the team, and apparently isn't doing that in this year's camp either. That said, he would be on my roster or traded.

5. Is Leino undeserving even if he has a good/great training camp?

6. Leino was a pretty decent player and not just one time. He got cut from a stacked Wings team with Babcock saying he was the best player he ever cut. (sure not exactly saying that he's a top 6 forward on a good team, but he has been an effective player in the past.) I don't understand why people aren't even willing to give the guy an opportunity. He has been injured and no one except Ryan Miller has excelled in Buffalo over the past few years.

7. How do we know that the kids are better than he is without really being able to see them on a daily basis?

8. And where is it exactly that this franchise sits? A place that has seen the team in the Cup Finals 2 times in the past 5 years with a President's trophy and several other playoff round victories to boot? I.E. why all the focus on the limited number of negative aspects of the Chiarelli management as opposed to all the positives? GM's are judged on wins and over the past five years I'm not sure any team has more of them than Boston. I agree that expectations should be high, but many people here are unreasonable. There are only 2 teams that have been "better" than Boston in the sense that they have 2 Cups each in this period. That means 27 teams have been worse.

1. First of all, it's unrealistic to predict that statline. Second, it's not a good statline.

2. What if we have 4 or 5 injuries? 6 or 7? If the Bruins sign Smith, they're looking at two roster spots to fill with youth. It is an entirely manageable number and not at all uncommon in this league. And it's not two core spots either.

3. Replacing anyone with Ville Leino could result in the same.

4. Could be that we overrate them. If they don't play though, we'll never know.

5. Yes. Looking at his body of work, especially of late. **** this training camp. He should never have been here.

6. I guess you just had to watch him play the last couple of seasons. And no, being injury prone is not a point in his favor.

7. Precisely.

8. It's because this team is good, that I want no part of Ville Leino on it. Why the negativity?

Listen, I started a thread in the off-season outlining areas where I felt the team could improve from last season. Some of it was a little risky, but it all had merit. We could add speed and skill to the fourth without losing grit. I wanted some size to the right of Marchand and Bergeron. The top line was going to get a different look; that might be a GOOD thing! We could get faster, younger and more interesting to watch without losing team identity. This is what I argued.

Where we're at right now, is facing the possibility that our talent pool isn't strong enough to make TWO promotions. We have not seen a single addition through the off-season and we watched our top-goal scorer leave for (ahem) greener pastures. Any chance that we have to improve would be entirely negated if Gagne, Leino and Caron are the filler players. In no way would this team be better this season than it was last year. Not a single solitary aspect. PLUS, we're over the cap. PLUS, two KEY contributors are left without contracts and are missing this very valuable time with the team.

I'm not blindly negative. I look for solutions to problems or potential solutions to potential problems. Ville Leino is not a solution. He is a problem. And the solution is kindergarten simple.

 

[Hali33]

I love the difference in attitude towards Gagne and Leino.

Gagne scores one empty net goal so far. "SICK HANDS, HE'S STILL GOT THAT SCORING TOUCH, PUT HIM IN THE TOP 6"

Leino scores one goal so far "IT MEANS NOTHING, WHY ARE YOU EVEN HERE".

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I love the difference in attitude towards Gagne and Leino.

Gagne scores one empty net goal so far. "SICK HANDS, HE'S STILL GOT THAT SCORING TOUCH, PUT HIM IN THE TOP 6"

Leino scores one goal so far "IT MEANS NOTHING, WHY ARE YOU EVEN HERE".

I really don't want either on the team.

 

[CrownofThornton]

I don't care who gets the open rosters spots, as long as they contribute and play to a respectable standard.

Kids or no kids who cares?

 

[Oates2Neely]

How about both? How do you feel about both?

Having both on opening roster is redundant. Both defensive forwards with very limited offense. I'd take the guy on better contract every day of the week.

However seeing as how it's rather obvious Kelly has zero trade value, his contract is an anchor on this team. Therefore Leino isn't needed IMO.

 

[Hali33]

I really don't want either on the team.

Me neither.

 

[C77]

1. First of all, it's unrealistic to predict that statline. Second, it's not a good statline.

2. What if we have 4 or 5 injuries? 6 or 7? If the Bruins sign Smith, they're looking at two roster spots to fill with youth. It is an entirely manageable number and not at all uncommon in this league. And it's not two core spots either.

3. Replacing anyone with Ville Leino could result in the same.

4. Could be that we overrate them. If they don't play though, we'll never know.

5. Yes. Looking at his body of work, especially of late. **** this training camp. He should never have been here.

6. I guess you just had to watch him play the last couple of seasons. And no, being injury prone is not a point in his favor.

7. Precisely.

8. It's because this team is good, that I want no part of Ville Leino on it. Why the negativity?

Listen, I started a thread in the off-season outlining areas where I felt the team could improve from last season. Some of it was a little risky, but it all had merit. We could add speed and skill to the fourth without losing grit. I wanted some size to the right of Marchand and Bergeron. The top line was going to get a different look; that might be a GOOD thing! We could get faster, younger and more interesting to watch without losing team identity. This is what I argued.

Where we're at right now, is facing the possibility that our talent pool isn't strong enough to make TWO promotions. We have not seen a single addition through the off-season and we watched our top-goal scorer leave for (ahem) greener pastures. Any chance that we have to improve would be entirely negated if Gagne, Leino and Caron are the filler players. In no way would this team be better this season than it was last year. Not a single solitary aspect. PLUS, we're over the cap. PLUS, two KEY contributors are left without contracts and are missing this very valuable time with the team.

I'm not blindly negative. I look for solutions to problems or potential solutions to potential problems. Ville Leino is not a solution. He is a problem. And the solution is kindergarten simple.

I understand. I wanted to see some changes too.

Trying to see it from Chiarelli's point of view makes it unlikely that it was going to happen. He's somewhat conservative by nature and I think 9 out of 10 GM's would follow the course he has. That said, I think there is a useful and important distinction between the pessimistic view of trying to replicate past success in the face of diminishing returns and the optimistic view of this has worked in the past and so we'll stick with it. I think the number of new players in important roles demonstrates that although Chiarelli is sticking with the larger philosophy, within that parameter there is room for flexibility with the hope and realization that the new guys sooner or later will have to make the difference which, by and large, means Hamilton. That is why to me the criticism of the management for overvaluing veterans and not giving opportunity to the young players is off-base.

With regard to the stat-line, I'd hope that Leino would be the 12th or 13th forward if everyone is healthy so he probably wouldn't get the number of games or ice time to reach those totals. I see him as like a 4th outfielder in baseball. To me he is relatively versatile...you can put him on a 3rd line in a pinch. I sure as heck don't want him starting as a 3rd liner unless he blows everyone out of the water which is rather unlikely.

Either way, the Bruins aren't going to rise or fall on the back of Ville Leino or Simon Gagne and that's why the overreaction is particularly perplexing.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

I could stomach Gagne if he's on a really cheap contract. Leino on the other hand...

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

I love the difference in attitude towards Gagne and Leino.

Gagne scores one empty net goal so far. "SICK HANDS, HE'S STILL GOT THAT SCORING TOUCH, PUT HIM IN THE TOP 6"

Leino scores one goal so far "IT MEANS NOTHING, WHY ARE YOU EVEN HERE".

I really don't want either on the team.

Me neither.

Me three.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Either way, the Bruins aren't going to rise or fall on the back of Ville Leino or Simon Gagne and that's why the overreaction is particularly perplexing.

And I'd argue that the decisions this team makes regarding the two big free agents, being over the cap and who gets our last few roster spots... They WILL determine whether this season is one where the Bruins contend for a Cup, or merely participate in the post-season.

 

[mislysBB]

Me three.

Me four.

Washed up or not, both players are on the not so great side of 30, so they already have that going against them. I guess I could see Gagne taking a spot...but I hope it doesn't happen. And if Leino makes the team? I'm going to go and find the nearest brick wall to smack my head against.

 

[EverettMike]

Can anyone name a veteran player in his 30s that missed an entire year and a half of hockey and then came back and played at a high level? Genuine question. I'm sure there have been some.