7 Game Series 84 Oilers or 02 Wings (All Players in Prime)

[davebenj]

Some might say I'm nuts but I would say Oilers in 4

 

[GuineaPig]

People are waaay overrating the Oilers.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

alright, let's make rosters.

'02 wings:

robitaille yzerman hull
shanahan larionov fedorov
holmstrom datsyuk mccarty
matlby draper gilchrist/avery

lidstrom fischer
chelios duchesne
krupp olausson

hasek
legace


'87 oilers:

nilsson gretzky kurri (nilsson because his offensive vision would make sweet music with kurrzki)
krushelnyski messier anderson
tikkanen mactavish gare
lumley/hunter mclelland napier
buchberger semenko

coffey smith
huddy lowe
beukeboom/muni/mcsorley/ruotsalainen (don't sleep on how awesome peak mcsorley was in the '93 playoffs)
gregg

fuhr
moog


the oilers lack the high end, but are deeper on D. if injuries come into play, having three extra very solid defensive defenseman could be a factor. also, that oilers blueline is enormous. just huge punishing guys.

up front, the oilers could really use a better two-way third line center. but still even as good as datsyuk is, i don't see any advantage for the wings' third line over tikkanen/gare.

on the fourth line, that's a lot of tough energy players for the oilers, especially if you put buchberger in there instead of napier for more sandpaper. detroit's group is very good too, but with the firepower on the top three lines, how much icetime do you really want to give maltby and draper as a shutdown line? especially when every other line has a selke winner as well?

i think the oilers win this one in six or seven. hasek is the x-factor though.


and then to address the "'02 wings in their primes would be the greatest team of all time" talk, i don't think so. see:

'60 habs

moore beliveau m. richard
bonin h. richard geoffrion
goyette backstrom provost
a. pronovost/marshall mosdell olmstead

harvey johnson
j.c. tremblay talbot
langlois turner

plante
hodge


'68 habs

lemaire beliveau cournoyer
provost h. richard grant
duff backstrom redmond
g. tremblay ferguson rousseau

laperriere savard
j.c. tremblay harper
vadnais watson

worsley
vachon


'73 habs

shutt p. mahovlich lafleur
f. mahovlich h. richard cournoyer
lambert lemaire houle
tardif wilson larose

robinson savard
lapointe laperriere
roberts murdoch/p. bouchard

dryden
plasse


keep in mind also that those habs teams were pre-21 man roster era.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I always forget that Carol Vadnais was a Hab at one point.


^^^Things that do not merit pointing out if you aren't an obscenely nerdy hockey fan.

 

[seventieslord]

that is an awesome group of 9 Oilers defensemen. As much as I respect what McSorley did (thinking of the 1991-1993 seasons in particular), and despite the fact he is on my current MLD team... he's gotta be 9th best of the 9. He probably doesn't play in this series, unless they put him on the 4th line, where there is room.

(Muni's debatable, but at his best he was considered one of the NHL's best defensive specialists - at the same time, when McSorley signed his group 2 offer sheet it made him the 16th-highest paid player in the NHL... so I dunno...)

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

that is an awesome group of 9 Oilers defensemen. As much as I respect what McSorley did (thinking of the 1991-1993 seasons in particular), and despite the fact he is on my current MLD team... he's gotta be 9th best of the 9. He probably doesn't play in this series, unless they put him on the 4th line, where there is room.

(Muni's debatable, but at his best he was considered one of the NHL's best defensive specialists - at the same time, when McSorley signed his group 2 offer sheet it made him the 16th-highest paid player in the NHL... so I dunno...)

yeah, that is quite a group. i wonder whether you'd also want to go:

coffey smith
huddy ruotsalainen
lowe beukeboom

to have an elite puck mover/rusher on the top two pairings, and one hell of a big imposing shutdown pairing with lowe and boomer.

re: mcsorley, dr. gregg's best years were a bit before my time. was he really better than mcsorley in '93? i remember mcsorley playing like a top 10 defenseman in the world during that run. a relatively small sample, but my god was he good that spring.

as for muni, an excellent shot blocker. but on a team that already has lowe and beukeboom, wouldn't you rather have a better all-rounder like peak mcsorley?

either way, between smith, huddy, lowe, beukeboom, mcsorley, muni, and gregg, that's seven enormous guys you wouldn't want to greet you in the corners or in front of the net. would holmstrom even still be walking after a series with those guys?

 

[Fred Taylor]

I voted Wings in 6. If all those players on the 02 team were in their prime at the same time it would have been the best team ever assembled easily.

 

[charliolemieux]

I voted Wings in 6. If all those players on the 02 team were in their prime at the same time it would have been the best team ever assembled easily.

Ehh, the 03-04 Leafs "everyone in their prime" team would be pretty good too.

This whole "prime" thing makes lots of aging teams great.

 

[Hobnobs]

Ehh, the 03-04 Leafs "everyone in their prime" team would be pretty good too.

This whole "prime" thing makes lots of aging teams great.

Roberts - Sundin - Mogilny
Renberg- Niuewendyk - Nolan
Tucker - Francis - Ponikarovski
Fitzgerald - Reichel - Domi
Perrot, Stajan, Antropov,

Bryan McCabe - Tomas Kaberle
Brian Leetch - Calle Johansson
Aki Berg - Bryan Marchement
Karel Pilar, Pierre Hedin and Ric Jackman

Ed Belfour
Trevor Kidd
Mikael Tellqvist

Seems like a decent team but is it comparable to:

Shanhan - Yzerman - Fedorov
Robitaille - Larionov - Holmstrom
Maltby - Draper - McCarty
Deveraux - Datsyuk - Hull

Lidström - Olausson
Fischer - Chelios
Duchesne - Dandenault

Hasek
Legace

 

[Prophecy35]

Here's a way back team I thought looked great for an "all-prime" team. HOF in bold.

1938-39 Bruins

Dumart-Schmidt-Bauer
Conacher-Cowley-Hill
Hamill-Weiland-Sands
McReavy-Getliffe-Pettinger

Shore-Clapper
Hollett-Crawford
Portland-Shewchuk

Brimsek
Thompson

I still think the Wings are far beyond though.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Here's a way back team I thought looked great for an "all-prime" team. HOF in bold.

1938-39 Bruins

Dumart-Schmidt-Bauer
Conacher-Cowley-Hill
Hamill-Weiland-Sands
McReavy-Getliffe-Pettinger

Shore-Clapper
Hollett-Crawford
Portland-Shewchuk

Brimsek
Thompson

I still think the Wings are far beyond though.

Flash Hollett and Mel Hill are worthy of bolding too!

 

[Johnny Engine]

Actually, here's a trick for looking for these amazing "everyone in their prime" teams. Look for "double dip dynasties," like Detroit with their later 90s teams, and later their Datsyuk-led teams several years later, or for that matter any random stretch of Habs history before 1995, and pick a transitional roster where neither their old guys or young guys are really carrying the weight.

Is there a Flyers team that had guys like Propp and Howe, and still had Barber and Clarke, and still had decent goaltending? Going to go check up on that.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Yes there is!

Barber - Clarke - Kerr
Propp - Sittler - Holmgren
Poulin - MacLeish - Sutter
Sinisalo - Sutter - Brown

Howe - McCrimmon
Marsh - Crossman
Holt - Dvorak

Lindbergh
Froese

That's a damn good team if Clarke, Sittler, Barber and MacLeish are in their prime.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Actually, here's a trick for looking for these amazing "everyone in their prime" teams. Look for "double dip dynasties," like Detroit with their later 90s teams, and later their Datsyuk-led teams several years later, or for that matter any random stretch of Habs history before 1995, and pick a transitional roster where neither their old guys or young guys are really carrying the weight.

to update my list of transitional habs teams, here's another one:

1985

shutt smith lafleur
naslund mondou richer
gainey carbonneau lemieux
mcphee walter m. tremblay
spares: nilan, m. hunter, deblois

robinson chelios
ludwig green
svoboda kurvers
spare: nattress

roy
penney/soetart


roy, richer, and claude lemieux were all teenage call-ups who played one game each, while lafleur and shutt were completely washed up.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

bruins, 1981

cashman ratelle middleton
secord pederson o'reilly
marcotte mcnab crowder
jonathan kasper mactavish

bourque park
mccrimmon milbury
o'connell redmond

vachon
jim craig

 

[Sentinel]

And yet the Wings are better than any of these lineups. No contest, really.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

And yet the Wings are better than any of these lineups. No contest, really.

totally agree... with the exception of the '87 oilers and the '60, '68, and '73 habs.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

speaking of great wings teams:

1995

burr yzerman ciccarelli
kozlov fedorov sheppard
krushelnyski primeau lapointe
errey draper mccarty

coffey fetisov
lidstrom howe
konstantinov ramsey
rouse

vernon
osgood



okay, the offensive high end isn't quite there, though the grinding lines aren't too far off, give or take a datsyuk. and it's quite a drop from hasek to vernon/osgood. but is that not one of the greatest d-corps ever assembled?

 

[Oowatanite]

I'd say the 02' Wings in six games.

 

[tombombadil]

some of the turn of the century Rangers teams that didn't even make the playoffs would be stellar under this outline.

 

[charliolemieux]

Seriously....

I run the 03-04 Leafs up the pole and no one has mentioned the 90-91 Penguins with Lemieux, Francis, Trottier, Jagr, Murphy, Coffey, Recchi, Mullen, Stevens, Young ....

This "in their Prime" idea hits a home run with this team.

 

[Prophecy35]

A few more "all-prime" teams. It really is a difficult task to find a team that on first glance could beat the 02 Detroit team. HOF in bold.

1935-36 Rangers

Cook-Boucher-Cook
Patrick-Morenz-Dillon
Shibicky-Watson-Colville
Murdoch-Keeling-Brydson

Seibert-Johnson
Coulter-Heller
Pratt-Colville

Kerr
Gardiner

I could have placed Colville as either a F or D, but I decided it looks more impressive with 5/6 D in the HOF.

95/96 Blues

Though not a challenge for the Red Wings as a whole, this portion of the team isn't too shabby.

Tikkanen-Gretzky-Hull
Courtnall/Corson-Hawerchuk-Anderson

MacInnis-Pronger

Fuhr

1979-80 Whalers

Hull-Keon-Howe

I'm not sure how much better you could do for one line.

1975-76 Bruins

Cashman-Esposito-Hodge
Bucyk-Ratelle-O'Reilly
Marcotte-Sheppard-Schmautz
Johnathan-Savard-Forbes

Orr-Park
Vadnais-Smith
Doak-Milbury

Cheevers
Gilbert

1990-91 Penguins

Stevens-Lemieux-Jagr
Mullen-Trottier-Recchi
Cullen-Francis-Tanti
Brown-Pederson-Young

Coffey-Murphy
Roberts-Samuelsson
Zalapski-Johnson

Barrasso
Young

 

[Sentinel]

totally agree... with the exception of the '87 oilers and the '60, '68, and '73 habs.

Whatever, dude. Dom alone eats them all for lunch.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Oh great, here we go with the "one player is a cheat code" talk again, only this time it isn't Gretzky.

 

[danincanada]

alright, let's make rosters.

'02 wings:

robitaille yzerman hull
shanahan larionov fedorov
holmstrom datsyuk mccarty
matlby draper gilchrist/avery

lidstrom fischer
chelios duchesne
krupp olausson

hasek
legace

I'm assuming each team has the coaching staff they had at the time. Bowman would have so many options with that prime lineup and if anyone could match up against the Oilers top two lines I'd put my money on Scotty doing it and succeeding.

I think Bowman would go with something like this but would obviously make adjustments if needed:

Datsyuk-Fedorov-Hull (to go against the Gretzky line)
Shanahan-Yzerman-McCarty (to go against the Messier line)
Robitaille-Larionov-Holmstrom (Oilers 3rd line would have to check them)
Maltby-Draper-X

X = either Avery, Devereaux, Dandenault (could play D or RW) or (unlikely) Williams

Lidstrom-Olausson (face Gretzky's line)
Fischer-Chelios (face Messier's line)
Duchesne-Krupp

Slegr, Dandenault

Hasek
Legace


You counter Messier with Shanahan and McCarty cause if he decides to get dirty then he has to answer the bell - something he didn't like to do. If Hull is hurting the top line defensively Draper can play RW and then you have 3 Selke winners to go against Gretzky's line. Avery could then centre the 4th line. Krupp and Olausson could switch if needed as well.

Bowman would have perfect LHS/RHS defense pairings and a nice mix of LHS/RHS forwards. Every defenseman can move the puck and play positional defense and of course Hasek is the last line of defense.

People who say the Oilers would sweep are out of their minds.