Prospect Info: 6th Overall Pick Moritz Seider, Defence, DEL

[newfy]

Guys are acting like Seider has proven himself a steal at 6. Far from it.
IMO, he's done nothing so far to make it look stupid.
But he also hasn't done much to make it look good.

He just had a season that absolutely makes it look like a good pick at 6. No one is saying he should've went first overall or anything but youre still unwilling to admit he just had a dominant season as a rookie in the AHL with an absolutely dominant WJC in possibly the strongest pool the WJC has ever had. You said he was outplayed by Tobias Bjornfot this season 2 weeks ago LOL.

And 2 weeks ago when I posted how bad your analysis of his season was with rankings and analysis from people in the media, you just happened to duck out of the conversation after posting plenty about it before that point.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Guys are acting like Seider has proven himself a steal at 6. Far from it.
IMO, he's done nothing so far to make it look stupid.
But he also hasn't done much to make it look good.

Demonstrate this, because I am not seeing it.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Demonstrate this, because I am not seeing it.

Yeah I think that after the season Seider had, we've upgraded him to "actually worth 6OA." Before the draft most of us had him ranked in the teens or later. After the season he had we don't think he's a steak at 6, we've just come around that he was an appropriate pick.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I won't say that he was the only logical pick at 6th or that he will out perform everyone taken after him. His play in GR last year establishes to my satisfaction, however, that it was reasonable to spend a 6th overall pick on him. I was super pleased with his play in GR last year, especially as a D+1 player. He won't ever be a truly elite offensive defensemen (which we all knew) but he certainly has a lot going for him and is much further along in his development than I expected. He is much more confiedent and effective with the puck on his stick than I was expecting.

This organization has a lot of issues. Mortiz Seider isn't one of them.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I'm not sure why people keep saying this. Seider was viewed as a top 20 pick everywhere.

Because he was? Or at least was mid teens, which is why all the stories were about the Wings liking Seider but maybe not liking the value at 6. That the initial reactions were "like the player, but 6 seems high".

By the pre-draft rankings, Seider was a reach at 6. He has proven that he was not a reach at 6 and was in fact a good player to select there. One or two people ranked him top ten. Another one or two ranked him twenty or below. Everyone else landed between there.

Everyone is pleasantly surprised by how well the pick turned out with Seider proving he's a legit prospect, not crowning his ass as the best D prospect in hockey or something.
I mean, if you take a D at 6... it's not acting like a steal to think that maybe he's got top pairing potential. I mean, that should be the expectation with a top ten pick, right? That the player is good enough to be an impact prospect and not just another guy?

 

[MBH]

It's going to take more than a solid season in the AHL to change my mind on whether he was worth it at #6.
For example, Rasmussen taking at 9th two years earlier. There's still very little evidence proving that was the right or wrong call. (Though of the 5 guys I definitely had before him - Vilardi, Thomas, Liljegren, Valimaki and Brannstrom - I'm feeling pretty confident that I had it right).

 

[Bench]

He won't ever be a truly elite offensive defensemen (which we all knew) but he certainly has a lot going for him and is much further along in his development than I expected. He is much more confiedent and effective with the puck on his stick than I was expecting.

That was always the knock against Pietrangelo, too, right? He had "inconsistent" offense but scouts were raving about his puck poise and decision making. And he hasn't really been one of the elite offensive defenders. In terms of points per game, he's behind guys like Barrie and Yandle over the last decade. Although he always has very strong numbers, logs a ton of minutes, and plays a 200 foot game.

Seider reaching that potential would be my absolute dream, of course. But I certainly see more offensive tools to work with than say, Tyler Myers, for example.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It's going to take more than a solid season in the AHL to change my mind on whether he was worth it at #6.
For example, Rasmussen taking at 9th two years earlier. There's still very little evidence proving that was the right or wrong call. (Though of the 5 guys I definitely had before him - Vilardi, Thomas, Liljegren, Valimaki and Brannstrom - I'm feeling pretty confident that I had it right).

Neither Rasmussen nor those guys have done anything one way or another to prove you right or wrong. Except for Robert Thomas. He's made it clear he would have been a better pick. But Vilardi? He's still got the monumental injury history now. He scored 7 points in 10 games... but nothing about his play locks him in as being better. All of those D aren't carrying super heavy loads or anything. The only guy who has actually proven anything out of who you listed is Thomas.

Rasmussen got almost exclusively bottom six minutes and 2nd PP minutes in a first season and then was in the minors for most of the second. Hell, if we could have just put him in the A in 2017-2018 or let him run roughshod over the WHL, people would be trumpeting how good he was.

 

[MBH]

Neither Rasmussen nor those guys have done anything one way or another to prove you right or wrong. Except for Robert Thomas. He's made it clear he would have been a better pick. But Vilardi? He's still got the monumental injury history now. He scored 7 points in 10 games... but nothing about his play locks him in as being better. All of those D aren't carrying super heavy loads or anything. The only guy who has actually proven anything out of who you listed is Thomas.

Rasmussen got almost exclusively bottom six minutes and 2nd PP minutes in a first season and then was in the minors for most of the second. Hell, if we could have just put him in the A in 2017-2018 or let him run roughshod over the WHL, people would be trumpeting how good he was.

The only question about Vilardi is his health.
He's so much more skilled than Rasmussen it's not even a comparison. He's also a better skater and can carry the puck through traffic.

But regardless, the point is that 3 years after the draft, you can't say anything CONCLUSIVELY about Rasmussen vs Thomas/Vilardi/Necas/whoever.
I can still think I'm right. You can think I'm wrong.

All that Seider has done for me, so far, is give me hope that he's not a bust.

 

[newfy]

The only question about Vilardi is his health.
He's so much more skilled than Rasmussen it's not even a comparison. He's also a better skater and can carry the puck through traffic.

But regardless, the point is that 3 years after the draft, you can't say anything CONCLUSIVELY about Rasmussen vs Thomas/Vilardi/Necas/whoever.
I can still think I'm right. You can think I'm wrong.

All that Seider has done for me, so far, is give me hope that he's not a bust.

Who had a better season last year, Seider or Bjornfot?

 

[SirloinUB]

I'm thrilled with the season Seider had. Coudn't ask for more really.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The only question about Vilardi is his health.
He's so much more skilled than Rasmussen it's not even a comparison. He's also a better skater and can carry the puck through traffic.

But regardless, the point is that 3 years after the draft, you can't say anything CONCLUSIVELY about Rasmussen vs Thomas/Vilardi/Necas/whoever.
I can still think I'm right. You can think I'm wrong.

All that Seider has done for me, so far, is give me hope that he's not a bust.

Vilardi isn't a better skater than Rasmussen, don't agree with that at all. It remain a concern moving forward for me in terms of his game and why I don't believe he can play center long-term at the NHL level.

I mean I had Necas over Ras on my board, but I think Ras still has a lot to offer. Big guys take a little longer to develop, I am interested to see him next year. He can be a big weapon to this team, he still has a lot of potential and it is pretty early in his career to be making definitive statements in my opinion.

It hasn't gone as smoothly as Seider's transition for sure, but you seem unimpressed by even that.

 

[Frk It]

The only question about Vilardi is his health.
He's so much more skilled than Rasmussen it's not even a comparison. He's also a better skater and can carry the puck through traffic.

But regardless, the point is that 3 years after the draft, you can't say anything CONCLUSIVELY about Rasmussen vs Thomas/Vilardi/Necas/whoever.
I can still think I'm right. You can think I'm wrong.

All that Seider has done for me, so far, is give me hope that he's not a bust.

You have a post out there of your rankings for that draft before it happened?

 

[HisNoodliness]

Yeah I think that after the season Seider had, we've upgraded him to "actually worth 6OA." Before the draft most of us had him ranked in the teens or later. After the season he had we don't think he's a steak at 6, we've just come around that he was an appropriate pick.

Just to make this more clear I had Seider at 15 last year:
1. Hughes
2. Kakko
3. Byram

4. Turcotte
5. Zegras
6. Dach
7. Krebs
8. Cozens
9. Caufield
10. Podkolzin

11. Newhook
12. Broberg
13. Boldy

14. York
15. Seider

If I redrafted today I think it would be something like (I haven't followed everyone else's picks super well):
1. Hughes 2. Dach 3. Byram 4. Kakko 5. Zegras 6. Seider 7. Turcotte 8. Caufield 9. Cozens

 

[Martinez]

Prospect Info: - Draft Boards - Specific to our own Member Draft Boards

Last years draft list’s from everyone

 

[TheMule93]

I find draft rankings to be really boring, its all a big echo chamber. Everyone just copies each other with one or two modifications to look different. I wish i could see a world where the rankers did not have everyone elses draft lists in front of them so we could truly see their beliefs based just on their viewings of prospects.

 

[MBH]

You have a post out there of your rankings for that draft before it happened?

Not a list but the Thomas thing
The more I read about Robert Thomas - Red Wing Center
The Vilardi thing... never thought he'd be available to us UNTIL that very moment.

 

[MBH]

Vilardi isn't a better skater than Rasmussen, don't agree with that at all. It remain a concern moving forward for me in terms of his game and why I don't believe he can play center long-term at the NHL level.

I mean I had Necas over Ras on my board, but I think Ras still has a lot to offer. Big guys take a little longer to develop, I am interested to see him next year. He can be a big weapon to this team, he still has a lot of potential and it is pretty early in his career to be making definitive statements in my opinion.

It hasn't gone as smoothly as Seider's transition for sure, but you seem unimpressed by even that.

Vilardi might not have the same top speed as Rasmussen, but without a doubt he's a better skater, more agile and, more importantly, has shown he can skate with the puck on his stick at an NHL level.

Even after all that time missed with back and groin injuries, Vilardi's skating was better.
Not only that, his production was better.
This kid who misses nearly a 1 1/2 returns to the AHL and goes
32 games 9-16-25 +4
vs Ras
35 games 7-15-22 -7

And then gets called up to the NHL and goes 3-4-7 in 10 games. And wins 53 percent of his faceoffs.

Anyway, Vilardi is not a burner, but he's a very good skater. Kind of like a Radulov.

 

[MBH]

I find draft rankings to be really boring, its all a big echo chamber. Everyone just copies each other with one or two modifications to look different. I wish i could see a world where the rankers did not have everyone elses draft lists in front of them so we could truly see their beliefs based just on their viewings of prospects.

As soon as someone presents a list substantially different, the HF crowd throws tomatoes at them, accusing them of trying to be different.

 

[MBH]

Who had a better season last year, Seider or Bjornfot?

I'd say Bjornfot, based on the #s.
Kid was a big PLUS on a minus team (+13 led his team) and had the same points.
Seider's -5 was about par for the course for his team.

 

[Frk It]

Not a list but the Thomas thing
The more I read about Robert Thomas - Red Wing Center
The Vilardi thing... never thought he'd be available to us UNTIL that very moment.

Only asking, because I often misremember how I viewed drafts unless I have a post or ranking to refer back to.

This was what I had for the 17' Draft: Post your draft list

I had both Rasmussen and Seider quite a bit lower than where we took them, but the situations were different. Rasmussen I had seen plenty of, but just never really saw "it" with him to have him ranked top 10. Seider I just flat out had seen virtually none of prior to the draft, and just included him in the 20's to have him in there. I actually thought about omitting him altogether because I just knew next to nothing about him other than what others thought of him.

 

[newfy]

I'd say Bjornfot, based on the #s.
Kid was a big PLUS on a minus team (+13 led his team) and had the same points.
Seider's -5 was about par for the course for his team.

So despite media raving about Seider, Seiders dominant WJC, basically every major prospect ranking having Seider 30+ spots higher than Bjornfot and really comparable offensive numbers while being known mostly for his defense, youre going to use plus minus to say which guy had a better season. Anyone who watched Rafalski and Lidstrom play hockey should know how good of a stat plus minus is.

Says a lot about your ability to analyse a players season and how seriously people should take your opinion lol

 

[Bench]

Seider I just flat out had seen virtually none of prior to the draft, and just included him in the 20's to have him in there. I actually thought about omitting him altogether because I just knew next to nothing about him other than what others thought of him.

Seider had the least amount of buzz around him I've seen from a top 6 pick in a long time. In hindsight, we now know several teams (like the leaked Canadians draft list), had him as the #2 defender on the board.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Seider had the least amount of buzz around him I've seen from a top 6 pick in a long time. In hindsight, we now know several teams (like the leaked Canadians draft list), had him as the #2 defender on the board.

I haven’t seen that list. Care to send a link? That would be interesting to see

 

[Bench]

I haven’t seen that list. Care to send a link? That would be interesting to see

Sure thing. It's a blurry image from a video documenting the Habs draft. A keen eyed person saw it briefly flash the draft list in frame and was able to work out the top 11. The list is real. The interpretation of the list is up for debate. They obviously won't confirm/deny anything. But looks like a ranking to me.

1. Jack Hughes
2. Kappo Kakko
3. Trevor Zegras
4. Bowem Byram
5. Alex Turcotte
6. Peyton Krebs
7. Matthew Boldy
8. Vasili Podkolzin
9. Kirby Dach
10. Cole Caufield
11. Moritz Seider

The Habs may've mistakenly released their '19 draft rankings and Cole Caufield wasn't their top pick - Article - BARDOWN