Post-Game Talk: #67: Capitals at FLYERS, Wednesday, Mar. 6, 2019, 7:30 pm ET

[deadhead]

Hextall said last year he planned to play all three rookie defensemen, Morin just had the bad timing to get hurt just before he would have been called up and given a 10 game shot at winning a job. Hagg probably beat him out b/c he can play the right side, Flyers had (have) excess LHDs.

 

[Redpath]

He also gets demonized for things that didn't or barely affected the team, like signing bryz and weber to those contracts. At least the team had some semblance of success under homer, under Hex it was a dumpster fire from start to finish.

Homer made a great team that had a terrible farm system. Hex made a terrible team that had a great farm system. I know which I would have rather had.

“A great team is a great team, but a great farm system could become anything. It could even become a great team!”

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I was not impressed by the Flyers last night. To a man they were really bad last night for much of the game. The Caps fell asleep on the first goal and the one at the beginning of the third.
They looked not prepared. They were sloppy in all 3 zones, couldn’t make a pass to save their lives last night. Elliot was brutal last night but the team in front of him was piss poor. This one is on pretty much everyone, coaches and players. Unacceptable considering everything that was on the line. I can accept a loss if they put the work in, but I saw none of that.
They better put this one behind them and come out and be angry and desperate on Saturday.
Only positive was Myers getting his first goal. Happy for the kid.

 

[Amorgus]

We went from the general stability of having mason to breaking the record for goalies started in a season, so that seems like a pretty big fall off.

And all because the powers-that-be runs every goalie into the f***ing ground so bad it cost them a goalie coach.

 

[Larry44]

I was not impressed by the Flyers last night. To a man they were really bad last night for much of the game. The Caps fell asleep on the first goal and the one at the beginning of the third.
They looked not prepared. They were sloppy in all 3 zones, couldn’t make a pass to save their lives last night. Elliot was brutal last night but the team in front of him was piss poor. This one is on pretty much everyone, coaches and players. Unacceptable considering everything that was on the line. I can accept a loss if they put the work in, but I saw none of that.
They better put this one behind them and come out and be angry and desperate on Saturday.
Only positive was Myers getting his first goal. Happy for the kid.

They are just running out of steam after playing pretty well full out for quite a while. Playing the champs, who needed to win to get into 1st, without Patrick and Voracek = recipe for disaster.

 

[baudib1]

Holmgren wouldn't make the list of worst 10 GMs in Philadelphia history or in NHL history.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Holmgren wouldn't make the list of worst 10 GMs in Philadelphia history or in NHL history.

Aw man, I was ready to point out that Fletcher himself is only the 9th GM in team history but then I saw you said "Philadelphia history."

 

[1865]

He also gets demonized for things that didn't or barely affected the team, like signing bryz and weber to those contracts. At least the team had some semblance of success under homer, under Hex it was a dumpster fire from start to finish.

Homer made a great team that had a terrible farm system. Hex made a terrible team that had a great farm system. I know which I would have rather had.

I don't think that's fair. Most great NHL teams start with a terrible team and a great farm system.

Homer created a team built on sand and then left when it was starting to fade, and the next GM could take some of the flak. Hex could have done the same but stuck with his belief system and structure that i still believe will bear fruit. He just hasn't had the chance to be here when it does, and i believe this will make Fletcher seem like a better GM than he is. He inherited the team at the perfect time. Young and full of talent with an amazing farm team and crucially, loads of good contracts and a ridiculous amount of cap space. It's akin to doing six months of chemotherapy then sacking the doctor because you're still feeling a little unwell.

Hex made mistakes and put his loyalty behind the wrong people, but patience was his downfall whereas the opposite was true of Homer.

 

[freakydallas13]

So now people are upset Homer had a team that was "going for it" and made it within 2 games of winning a cup? After the cup window had closed, didn't homer make 2 trades that to this day have the most positive impact on the team since (Richards and Carter Trades)?

This obsession with tearing down anything Homer did and saying his bad outweighed his good is rubbish. The team had some success while Homer was going for it, and after the window closed he switched focus to looking towards the future. People want to act like Hextall was some kind of messiah and the *only* thing he did wrong was stick by his bad coach, but in reality everything outside of accumulating prospects and signing contracts, he was objectively a bad gm.

Terrible coaching evaluation, terrible player evaluation, and god awful philosophy of keeping prospects off the team at all costs. Stop acting like He was some kind of genius, he just stuck the team in neutral for 4.5 years and turned a playoffer tweener team into a playoff tweener team with an added goalie carousel. Maybe if he actually traded for or signed NHL level talent at anypoint before signing JVR he would still have a job.

Building a great prospect pool doesn't mean you will automatically have a great NHL team.

 

[Hurricane28]

Holmgren wouldn't make the list of worst 10 GMs in Philadelphia history or in NHL history.

Agree. Holmgren constructed teams that were contenders from 2007-2008 to 2011-2012. Including a Stanley Cup appearance and an additional conference final appearance. Yeah the end was bad, but you have to give him some credit for those teams.

 

[dragonoffrost]

So now people are upset Homer had a team that was "going for it" and made it within 2 games of winning a cup? After the cup window had closed, didn't homer make 2 trades that to this day have the most positive impact on the team since (Richards and Carter Trades)?

This obsession with tearing down anything Homer did and saying his bad outweighed his good is rubbish. The team had some success while Homer was going for it, and after the window closed he switched focus to looking towards the future. People want to act like Hextall was some kind of messiah and the *only* thing he did wrong was stick by his bad coach, but in reality everything outside of accumulating prospects and signing contracts, he was objectively a bad gm.

Terrible coaching evaluation, terrible player evaluation, and god awful philosophy of keeping prospects off the team at all costs. Stop acting like He was some kind of genius, he just stuck the team in neutral for 4.5 years and turned a playoffer tweener team into a playoff tweener team with an added goalie carousel. Maybe if he actually traded for or signed NHL level talent at anypoint before signing JVR he would still have a job.

Building a great prospect pool doesn't mean you will automatically have a great NHL team.

Two of those 4.5 years were getting this team out of the cap hell Holmgren put this team in. But keep ignoring that issue. The league changed with the most recent lockout. Holmgren's style of management doesn't work in a cap league.

 

[Striiker]

So now people are upset Homer had a team that was "going for it" and made it within 2 games of winning a cup? After the cup window had closed, didn't homer make 2 trades that to this day have the most positive impact on the team since (Richards and Carter Trades)?

This obsession with tearing down anything Homer did and saying his bad outweighed his good is rubbish. The team had some success while Homer was going for it, and after the window closed he switched focus to looking towards the future. People want to act like Hextall was some kind of messiah and the *only* thing he did wrong was stick by his bad coach, but in reality everything outside of accumulating prospects and signing contracts, he was objectively a bad gm.

Terrible coaching evaluation, terrible player evaluation, and god awful philosophy of keeping prospects off the team at all costs. Stop acting like He was some kind of genius, he just stuck the team in neutral for 4.5 years and turned a playoffer tweener team into a playoff tweener team with an added goalie carousel. Maybe if he actually traded for or signed NHL level talent at anypoint before signing JVR he would still have a job.

Building a great prospect pool doesn't mean you will automatically have a great NHL team.

You mean the same thing you just did with Hextall?

 

[freakydallas13]

Two of those 4.5 years were getting this team out of the cap hell Holmgren put this team in. But keep ignoring that issue. The league changed with the most recent lockout. Holmgren's style of management doesn't work in a cap league.

I never said Homer was perfect, but people here are acting like he was a bumbling idiot and Hextall was a glorious leader with only one fault of keeping Honk. Yeah, we were starting to see the problem with the bad contracts on the team, but at least Holmgren could point to some actual success he got from giving out those contracts.

Homer inherited a team with a core of Richards, Carter, Gange, Pitkanen, and a broken down Forsberg. Within 2.5 years he added Hartnell, Kimmo, Briere, Coburn, and Pronger, and the team had the most playoff succes it had seen since Lindros.

Hextall inherited a team with Giroux, Simmonds, Jake, Couts, B. Schenn, Mason, and Striet, and after he spent 2 years clearing out bad contracts, who did he add to the roster through trades or signings over the 2.5 years after that? How well did the team do after that? Garbage on both accounts.

 

[freakydallas13]

You mean the same thing you just did with Hextall?

I'm just pointing out the strange obsession people on this board have with blaming homer for everything while trying to make Hextall as sympathetic as possible. Neither were ideal gm's, so don't rag on Homer and try to prop up Hex as some gold standard.

 

[TCTC]

Holmgren was great at building a team, Hextall was great at building a prospect pool. Hopefully Fletcher will be good at both. Although right now we need more Holmgren than Hextall.

 

[Striiker]

I'm just pointing out the strange obsession people on this board have with blaming homer for everything while trying to make Hextall as sympathetic as possible. Neither were ideal gm's, so don't rag on Homer and try to prop up Hex as some gold standard.

Really? Seems like way more people shit on Hextall than Holmgren.

Both were far from perfect but if I had to choose from one or the other going forward, I'd personally take Hextall .

 

[freakydallas13]

Really? Seems like way more people **** on Hextall than Holmgren.

Both were far from perfect but if I had to choose from one or the other going forward, I'd personally take Hextall .

The team needed a Hextall mentality after the window Homer opened had closed. He did a great job of cleaning out the bad contracts and loading up the prospect pool. He seems incapable or unwilling to actually try and take the team to the next level though, so it was time to move on from him.

Remains to be seen if Chuck is the guy who will take this team to the next level.

 

[Striiker]

The team needed a Hextall mentality after the window Homer opened had closed. He did a great job of cleaning out the bad contracts and loading up the prospect pool. He seems incapable or unwilling to actually try and take the team to the next level though, so it was time to move on from him.

Remains to be seen if Chuck is the guy who will take this team to the next level.

He wasn't going to go out and make big signings or trades while the team was clearly rebuilding and not expected to compete. As soon as the team was actually showing signs of being ready for the playoffs (last years insane run) he went out and signed a top FA goalscorer to a large contract.

 

[TCTC]

We only heard about Hextall's intentions after he was fired. Maybe he shouldn't have left the wrong people in the dark.

 

[freakydallas13]

He wasn't going to go out and make big signings or trades while the team was clearly rebuilding and not expected to compete. As soon as the team was actually showing signs of being ready for the playoffs (last years insane run) he went out and signed a top FA goalscorer to a large contract.

You don't have to be a contender to try and improve the roster. Homer added Kimmo, Briere, and Hartnell the offseason after the team finished last in the leauge. Hextall never tried to improve the roster until his 4th season as GM (or if he did try, he failed in doing so)

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Holmgren was great at building a team,

Not if that team has to survive in the salary cap era. Seemed like the Flyers were always chasing the dragon under Homer. Just one more hit to put off the comedown, future consequences be damned.

 

[TCTC]

Not if that team has to survive in the salary cap era. Seemed like the Flyers were always chasing the dragon under Homer. Just one more hit to put off the comedown, future consequences be damned.

I was more thinking of the team that made it to the Stanley Cup final in 2010. Yes, he made some bad decisions after that, but that was one of the best Flyers teams we've seen in the last decades, only 2 wins away from winning it all.

 

[Striiker]

You don't have to be a contender to try and improve the roster. Homer added Kimmo, Briere, and Hartnell the offseason after the team finished last in the leauge. Hextall never tried to improve the roster until his 4th season as GM (or if he did try, he failed in doing so)

At that time the whole objective was to add as many picks and prospects as possible, so trading to add talent was kinda out of the question.

And that was exactly how he was helping the roster. Those drafted players came in and improved the team.

 

[baudib1]

The Carter and Richards trades are two of the best trades in team history, and they were both moves made with an eye toward the future. Couturier and Voracek are still core players on this team. Schenn and Simmonds moved on after several good years but we recouped Frost, Farabee and Hartman + a pick for them.

Holmgren certainly made a lot of disastrous moves after that but without those trades the team would have been mired in an even worse state for the past 6 years. The average GM makes a trade like that never.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I was more thinking of the team that made it to the Stanley Cup final in 2010. Yes, he made some bad decisions after that, but that was one of the best Flyers teams we've seen in the last decades, only 2 wins away from winning it all.

After they got in the playoffs on a shootout the last game of the regular season.

I’ll give him the Pronger trade. Best move he made. (But the over 35 contract mistake was criminal.)

But Holmgren inherited a team with massive cap space, good draft picks, & really good young players.

He left it in cap hell & with a barren farm system. And luckily he got bailed out of many of his worst mistakes.

Signing Briere, Timonen, Hartnell, & Biron his first summer due to good cap management before he took over — Hextall sure wasn’t left with that possibility.