Post-Game Talk: #67: Capitals at FLYERS, Wednesday, Mar. 6, 2019, 7:30 pm ET

[Beef Invictus]

Would you rather be given $1,000,000 in a year or $10 immediately?

Waiting sucks but in the big picture it’s not that big of a deal, so long as the payoff is worth it.

Or in the case of Morin, the million possibly becomes nothing because of that obstinate stupidity.

There's also a small window for many forwards to prove themselves and be useful, a window they were set on refusing good players.

Only letting guys who are so good they leave you no choice earn their spot is a garbage development model. You slammed Hakstol for it, you need to understand that Hextall fully wanted it that way.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Delete

 

[Beef Invictus]

Move on to what?
NAK is injured, Bunnaman isn't a NHL center and Vorobyev hasn't shown anything yet.
Rubtsov and Kase are injured and Laberge has just returned to the ice.

It takes time to finish a rebuild, you can see all the players that are on the way but it'll take 2-3 years for them all to arrive and get enough experience to play in big games. Sanheim is in his second year and totally blew the 5th goal by chasing the puck, learning curve.

Playing without Voracek and Patrick simply exposed what we know - they have 7 forwards and 5 guys who belong on the 4th line or the press box. When they add 2-3 more forwards (Frost, Farabee, Ratcliffe, Laczynski/Allison, etc) they'll be ready to play with the big boys.

Myers is going to be better than Sanheim, people that large shouldn't be that nifty unless they're in the NBA.

Well this is a far cry from your last off-season assessment that the team is now good enough to judge the coach.

Which you then refused to do.

 

[Striiker]

Or in the case of Morin, the million possibly becomes nothing because of that obstinate stupidity.

There's also a small window for many forwards to prove themselves and be useful, a window they were set on refusing good players.

Only letting guys who are so good they leave you no choice earn their spot is a garbage development model. You slammed Hakstol for it, you need to understand that Hextall fully wanted it that way.

This is the same concept as why Hagg gets a ton of shit but Ghost doesn't.

Hakstol (Hagg) did a ton of stupid shit and didn't make up for it with any positives.
Hextall (Ghost) obviously made mistakes too but did enough good that it's easier to tolerate the bad that comes with the good.

As for Morin, his time in the AHL was actually needed up until last year when he definitely should have been on the team instead of Hagg. Unfortunately he ended up hurt so we don't know if the plan was to get him into games at some point during the year. Maybe he would have, maybe not, but the injury prevented us from ever finding out.

 

[Starat327]

Well this is a far cry from your last off-season assessment that the team is now good enough to judge the coach.

Which you then refused to do.

Youre not...surprised by any of this, are you?

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is the same concept as why Hagg gets a ton of **** but Ghost doesn't.

Hakstol (Hagg) did a ton of stupid **** and didn't make up for it with any positives.
Hextall (Ghost) obviously made mistakes too but did enough good that it's easier to tolerate the bad that comes with the good.

As for Morin, his time in the AHL was actually needed up until last year when he definitely should have been on the team instead of Hagg. Unfortunately he ended up hurt so we don't know if the plan was to get him into games at some point during the year. Maybe he would have, maybe not, but the injury prevented us from ever finding out.

Berube wanted Morin on the team years ago. Hextall refused.

 

[Striiker]

Berube wanted Morin on the team years ago. Hextall refused.

Morin actually did need time in the AHL. More so than Sanheim, Myers, or Ghost, so I really have no problem with sending him down back then.

It was last year that sending him down was a huge mistake, especially since he's clearly superior to Hagg and somehow that trash got gifted a spot he didn't earn.

 

[Tripod]

Berube wanted Morin on the team years ago. Hextall refused.

But it doesn't mean he was ready.

I have no issue with Morin going to the AHL. But he should have been in the NHL last year. At that point, we should have had a rotation between Sanheim, Morin and Hagg if they did not want all 3 playing at once. Have a "play 2, sit 1" rotation. That would have given each guy 50ish games.

But instead, we dressed Manning 65, AMac 66 and Hagg 70 games.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

He needs the Rocky old school workout from Rocky 4

View attachment 196181

The one where the Russian gets shot up with PEDs?

 

[Rebels57]

But it doesn't mean he was ready.

I have no issue with Morin going to the AHL. But he should have been in the NHL last year. At that point, we should have had a rotation between Sanheim, Morin and Hagg if they did not want all 3 playing at once. Have a "play 2, sit 1" rotation. That would have given each guy 50ish games.

But instead, we dressed Manning 65, AMac 66 and Hagg 70 games.

At this point, I wish Morin made the team back in 2015 when Berube wanted him to.

Ideally he should have played the 28 games that NICK f***ING SCHULTZ played for the Flyers back in 2016-2017. He should have then been a lock for 2017-2018. Like his spot should not have even been up for debate at that point. It should have been Sanheim vs. Hagg for a spot with Manning as everyday #7.

The way the defense was handled under Hakstol/Hextall is a god damn tragedy.

 

[Redpath]

Morin rightfully earned a spot out of camp in the fall of 2017 but wasn't give a shot. Hetxall later went on that season to say something along the lines of "We can't have defense that young, we need some veterans in there." Manning and MacDonald played 60+ games each that season.

1) Arbitrarily requiring veteran defenseman to be on the team and 2) the rule of prospects firmly making the team or not out of camp without further consideration down the road were two stupid Hextall philosophies that hurt Morin and show that, as great as he was at acquiring young talent, he had little idea how to implement them in the lineup short of being a blatantly obvious decision

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I don’t think it was a bad call at all to send Morin back to juniors as a 19 year old. That would have been a disaster.

Obviously injuries have piled up in the last year or so but he should have played more NHL games in 16-17.

 

[Rebels57]

I don’t think it was a bad call at all to send Morin back to juniors as a 19 year old. That would have been a disaster.

Obviously injuries have piled up in the last year or so but he should have played more NHL games in 16-17.

Yep. Each and every one of the 28 games that 34 year old NICK SCHULTZ played.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Holy hyperbole. He is not even the worst GM in Flyers' history let alone NHL.

Shea Weber and Chris Pronger were well calculated risks that could have put the team over the edge and Bryz was more on Snider than on him.
Of course, you did not mention the two franchise altering trades (Richards, Carter) that set up the current team for success.

I'm happy that he is gone as a GM but I understand that he came out of a no salary cap era and failed to pick up the basics fast enough to adapt.

Pronger’s contract wasn’t a “calculated risk.” It was a many-millions-of-dollars epic management blunder based on not knowing the rules. An all-time gaffe.

Maybe I’d be willing to cut him a break if he didn’t also sign Ilya Bryzgalov to a 9-year $51 M contract, which would have ruined the team irreparably if not for the CBS buyouts.

And then he signed Shea Weber to a $7.8M cap hit through 2025/26! Imagine if they were saddled with that! Oh, & trading for Andrew f’ing MacDonald at the deadline & giving him a 6 year $30M contract. And trading a future 2x Vezina winner for a 2nd. And having a farm system where Mike Testwuide was considered a top prospect.

And in general leaving an absolute dumpster fire behind him for Hextall both in terms of prospects & cap hell.

I stand by it: Holmgren is the worst general manager in sports history.

 

[magnumpi]

Pronger’s contract wasn’t a “calculated risk.” It was a many-millions-of-dollars epic management blunder based on not knowing the rules. An all-time gaffe.

Maybe I’d be willing to cut him a break if he didn’t also sign Ilya Bryzgalov to a 9-year $51 M contract, which would have ruined the team irreparably if not for the CBS buyouts.

And then he signed Shea Weber to a $7.8M cap hit through 2025/26! Imagine if they were saddled with that! Oh, & trading for Andrew f’ing MacDonald at the deadline & giving him a 6 year $30M contract. And trading a future 2x Vezina winner for a 2nd. And having a farm system where Mike Testwuide was considered a top prospect.

And in general leaving an absolute dumpster fire behind him for Hextall both in terms of prospects & cap hell.

I stand by it: Holmgren is the worst general manager in sports history.

I'm in full accord with any statement that trashes Holmgren

 

[magnumpi]

No problem with Morin spending time in AHL.

However, he should have been a full time member at the start of 2017-2018, along with Sanheim.

At that point, Manning and Mcdonald should have been buried, only to be used in case of injury.

Then, Myers should have been in the top 6 at the start of this season.

At this point, the only thing we should have been wondering is whether or not Friedman had a future as a 6th/7th dman.

 

[freakydallas13]

I'm not going to get into it again, only say that people like to pile on Holmgren when he made more good moves than bad (like, twice as many).

He had his faults, but that doesn't mean he didn't also do a lot of good for this team.

 

[dragonoffrost]

I'm not going to get into it again, only say that people like to pile on Holmgren when he made more good moves than bad (like, twice as many).

He had his faults, but that doesn't mean he didn't also do a lot of good for this team.

His good moves were not strong enough to offset the UGLY ones.

Hextall will be remembered the same.

 

[freakydallas13]

His good moves were not strong enough to offset the UGLY ones.

Hextall will be remembered the same.

He also gets demonized for things that didn't or barely affected the team, like signing bryz and weber to those contracts. At least the team had some semblance of success under homer, under Hex it was a dumpster fire from start to finish.

Homer made a great team that had a terrible farm system. Hex made a terrible team that had a great farm system. I know which I would have rather had.

 

[freakydallas13]

Double post.

 

[dragonoffrost]

He also gets demonized for things that didn't or barely affected the team, like signing bryz and weber to those contracts. At least the team had some semblance of success under homer, under Hex it was a dumpster fire from start to finish.

Homer made a great team that had a terrible farm system. Hex made a terrible team that had a great farm system. I know which I would have rather had.

Bryz??? That signing chased Bob... I'd say it affected the team.

 

[freakydallas13]

Bryz??? That signing chased Bob... I'd say it affected the team.

Trading bob was it's own mistake, if they didn't have bryz homer would have in all likelyhood gone out and gotten a different goaltender and still traded bob away. The organization, for whatever reason, didn't want him here.

He also got Mason for what, a third round pick? He was this teams best goaltender in how long? A decade? Two?

 

[dragonoffrost]

Trading bob was it's own mistake, if they didn't have bryz homer would have in all likelyhood gone out and gotten a different goaltender and still traded bob away. The organization, for whatever reason, didn't want him here.

He also got Mason for what, a third round pick? He was this teams best goaltender in how long? A decade? Two?

Mason being the best goalie here is like fighting over the tallest midget. He was decent but did they do any better with him than the others? I mean Leighton, Emery and Boucher got them to a cup final. Are we praising them?

 

[freakydallas13]

Mason being the best goalie here is like fighting over the tallest midget. He was decent but did they do any better with him than the others? I mean Leighton, Emery and Boucher got them to a cup final. Are we praising them?

We went from the general stability of having mason to breaking the record for goalies started in a season, so that seems like a pretty big fall off.

 

[Starat327]

Mason being the best goalie here is like fighting over the tallest midget. He was decent but did they do any better with him than the others? I mean Leighton, Emery and Boucher got them to a cup final. Are we praising them?

Mason did much better than everyone in that list. His only bad year was his last year, everything in those first 3 was definitely good to borderling exceptional in the one season. We dont have a problem with getting good goaltending. We have a problem with keeping one consistent good goaltender.