Post-Game Talk: #57| FLYERS 1 at Flames 3| Wednesday, February 15, 2017

[renberg]

If half the team doesn't have enough nhl talent, then how did they make the playoffs with basically the same team last year? they added a top 4 defenseman and top 6 forward on top of that team. if anything, there is more talent than last year on paper. why has everyone on the team regressed from last year, not just the goalies? it's just a coincidence that 95% of the team has regressed from last year? everyone on the team from last year, not just the bad players, just all happen to be playing worse than last year just by chance? coaching has no responsibility, it's just a natural regression statistically of every single player on the team(except simmonds)?

Ok, they added Provorov but that doesn't balance the fact that MDZ, Streit, Schultz and Manning are not quality NHL defenders. Both goalies look as if they belong at LV with most likely neither of them being back next season. Lyubimov, PEB, VDV, Weise, play at AHL levels. At best Cousins, Raffl and Read would make an acceptable checking line. That a pretty weak roster.
Injuries and age also make this squad and last year's totally different teams.

 

[Jtown]

so he is versatile. that makes him a commodity

 

[Random Forest]

Tbf every single forward on the team who was a regular last year is scoring less at 5v5 this season apart from Matt Read and Chris VandeVelde.

The Flyers do need another top 9 center though... and a better 4C though.

This is true, but in terms of relative impact, having poor years from our top two centers is a far bigger blow than, say, Schenn and Voracek having a slight dip in 5v5 P/60 compared to last year.

 

[deadhead]

Cousins is starting to impress me, I'd like to see him center the 3rd line the rest of the season and see how he looks, he just has the knack of making things happen, like a young Giroux.

At this point they should stay the course and just let players audition for next season while dumping as many UFAs at the trade deadline for draft picks as Hextall can pull off.

The only reason the team made the playoffs last year was Mason playing above his career norm, this year he's well below, and that's been a 10-20 point swing.

So if you see last year's team as an 85 point team with average goalie play, and this team as a 85 point team with average goalie play, well, we're treading water waiting for the kids to arrive.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I think Cousins is better suited on a 4th line on a team with depth. Now whether Hakstol would play him there if he did have a legit third line is another question.

Ultimately you need to do better at the 3C & 4C spots than Schenn, Cousins, & Bellemare. Bellemare's barely an NHLer & you have him playing center for you. Not only that you've even had him play as the 3C at times during the last two years.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Cousins is a placeholder, he won't be here long term... or even short term really. Maybe another year, but that's it.

I wouldn't mind finding a way to keep him around. He sure is good at drawing penalties and pissing off the other team. Keep him around and stick him on the 4th line.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

I absolutely think Cousins should be here. He has a great combination of skill and *******.
I also really enjoy how well he can transition the puck without being a great skater; He's a smart player.

 

[Striiker]

I wouldn't mind finding a way to keep him around. He sure is good at drawing penalties and pissing off the other team. Keep him around and stick him on the 4th line.

I don't think he provides enough to keep him around more than a year over some of the guys who are likely to join the team in the next few years.

Guys like Lindblom, Vorobyov, Rubtsov, Leier, and Laughton who are likely to be here within two or three years. Then other guys with chances who might take a bit longer such as Laberge, Allison, Laczynski, etc.

Not to mention guys who we will draft within the next year or two.

 

[Curufinwe]

Cousins is more likely to be on the team next year than Leier and Laughton who likely won't be protected in the ED.

 

[Striiker]

Cousins is more likely to be on the team next year than Leier and Laughton who likely won't be protected in the ED.

Yeah, next year probably, but past that I don't think so.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I'm fine with bringing Cousins back for another year. I don't think he's a long term solution but he's fine as fourth line/spare option again. It's not like you're bringing back a total zero like Bellemare or VandeVelde with him.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I don't think he provides enough to keep him around more than a year over some of the guys who are likely to join the team in the next few years.

Guys like Lindblom, Vorobyov, Rubtsov, Leier, and Laughton who are likely to be here within two or three years. Then other guys with chances who might take a bit longer such as Laberge, Allison, Laczynski, etc.

Not to mention guys who we will draft within the next year or two.

well he seems like he could be the perfect 4th liner for this team down the line. Sure his game could be better but he does things in certain areas that are useful. However I do agree that he may not be here for long with some of the players coming up.

 

[BillDineen]

Cousins showed he can be effective as a winger, so I am not sure what would stop him from being an effective 4th line LW at worst. He provides some offense and is a pest.

 

[Rebels57]

It's totally just the players. Totally.

They are not trying. That's it!

Yep. Has NOTHING to do with the awful system and awful coaching.



Minnesota had 87 points last year and now already has 80 with 25 games left to play. Has NOTHING to do with having the right coach.

 

[Rebels57]

Cousins is starting to impress me, I'd like to see him center the 3rd line the rest of the season and see how he looks, he just has the knack of making things happen, like a young Giroux.

At this point they should stay the course and just let players audition for next season while dumping as many UFAs at the trade deadline for draft picks as Hextall can pull off.

The only reason the team made the playoffs last year was Mason playing above his career norm, this year he's well below, and that's been a 10-20 point swing.

So if you see last year's team as an 85 point team with average goalie play, and this team as a 85 point team with average goalie play, well, we're treading water waiting for the kids to arrive.

Not true.

Mason had a .918 save percentage in 15-16.
Mason had a .928 save percentage in 14-15.
Mason had a .917 save percentage in 13-14.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's totally just the players. Totally.

They are not trying. That's it!

Yeah, I don't get the lack of effort argument. That wasn't close to the issue last night; those guys were working their ***** off. It was rarely the issue under Berube, either.

 

[Striiker]

The effort argument isn't even an argument.

It's the poster saying "I'm angry and I just want to complain without thinking".

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Yep. Has NOTHING to do with the awful system and awful coaching.



Minnesota had 87 points last year and now already has 80 with 25 games left to play. Has NOTHING to do with having the right coach.

or Vezina caliber goaltending.
BB is a good regular season coach. No need to get into the history of his teams failing in the playoffs. We had him the first 5 years in Manchester in the AHL as well at the start of the decade. zero playoff series wins.
is he an upgrade over what he have now? sure. Do I think a coach like that would get us to where we all want to go? debatable.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The Flyers basically spent the night rushing around to catch a train that had already left. Someone is questioning their effort now?

 

[Rebels57]

or Vezina caliber goaltending.
BB is a good regular season coach. No need to get into the history of his teams failing in the playoffs. We had him the first 5 years in Manchester in the AHL as well at the start of the decade. zero playoff series wins.
is he an upgrade over what he have now? sure. Do I think a coach like that would get us to where we all want to go? debatable.

Did Devan Dubnyk just happen to become Vezina calibre over the summer magically or does it have something to do with the play in front of him as well?

I'm not advocating for Boudreau here, I am just saying we CLEARLY don't have the right guy.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Did Devan Dubnyk just happen to become Vezina calibre over the summer magically or does it have something to do with the play in front of him as well?

I'm not advocating for Boudreau here, I am just saying we CLEARLY don't have the right guy.

He was a Vezina finalist with them in 2014-2015.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Minnesota is kind of like Columbus to me. They don't have the high end forwards but they make up for it by having four good lines. Their defense & goaltending are pretty good as well.

They signed Staal which has been a pretty good signing. Then they moved Coyle to center & suddenly they have good depth down the middle with Koivu & Haula as the other two centers.

 

[deadhead]

Depth is a wonderful thing.

Imagine if we had three solid lines, plus a real checking line, plus rolled out three pairs of defensemen that didn't make you cringe.
Even with our current awful goalies we'd probably be a playoff team.
And that's without asking our forwards having subpar seasons to bounce back next year.

 

[Rebels57]

He was a Vezina finalist with them in 2014-2015.

He was riding that "just got traded" momentum though and it was a significant outlier for his career at that point..and since it was just 39 games we don't know if those numbers were sustainable for a full season there. He then regressed to a league average goaltending in his first full year under Yeo/Torchetti, before becoming the "best goalie in the league" this year. Maybe he has just honestly gotten better with age and peaked at 30, but I think a lot of his to do with the way the team is playing in front of him; which has been directly effected by the new coach.

 

[Random Forest]

The effort argument is definitely stupid, but I don't like placing more blame on coaching than is deserved either. That's not to say I'm satisfied with Hakstol this year, but our three most important players from last year's team just aren't contributing at a level that is expected for the roles they are in, and there are various individual reasons for that beyond coaching.