Post-Game Talk: 5-4 NYR: Another great performance in net
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Most of our top 6 forwards are.
People putting blame on the defence madness. They sucked in the 1st. After that? Gave up 10 shots in 2 periods. 2 goals: the deflection would have gone straight in he was so out of position and a weak shot from the point you can tell Roberto knew he should have had. Embarassed in the shootout. He is done.
CHGoalie27
Don't blame the goalie!
OK, let's read why...
That's true!
Also true!
Don't ask those questions without also asking why and how.
Sometimes it's the goalie, sometimes it's the defense, sometimes it's both. Sometimes it's neither and just a great play from the other team. Can't lump them all together as "goalie sucks" just because more than 2 or 3 goals go in on however many shots.
Just the same, and as I said, if we are only counting the shots that were stoppable, Cats win 2-0 as Lundqvist's two stinkers were the only goals I saw as reasonably stoppable as (@KW explained). Now given that I don't think any other goalie, Hank included, would stop what Lu let in thru regulation yesterday- I can't say goaltending was the problem yesterday. We just lost a good game, nobody to blame.
At this point, and I'm not saying goaltending hasn't been a problem and I'm not sure anyone else has either. And while looking at Lu, our starter, the play of the goalie hasn't been a problem so much as health has. That said, and as I've pointed out before, there's 31 teams in the best league in the world. How many of those teams have a backup that you'd want to be your starter? This is the best we as humans can do, and like him or not Reimer is one of the 60 best goalies in the world. And then as I take him over a couple starters...so if HE sucks...yknow where I'm going with this...
CHGoalie27
Don't blame the goalie!
CHGoalie27
Don't blame the goalie!
@FinlandPanther going down the list of active NHL goalies there are starters I wouldn't take over Reimer.
letsgrowcactus
Registered User
- Jan 21, 2017
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I'll give you Mike Smith; who else?
Murray has been struggling a lot but he still has that crazy upside if he returns to form. Schneider's no longer a starter. Who am I missing?
For the record I was a big Reimer fan but he looks simply terrible there this year. Maybe he can snap out of it but right now he's a problem.
If you’re going to say, D make mistakes every game, then logically you have to accept that G make mistakes every game too. But instead the argument seems to be, since G is the last D, mistakes here become more noticeable when the puck goes in, and then G is at fault.
In reality, given how fast the game is, decisions by F and D and G seconds before a goal is scored all matter. Thus it STILL becomes a comparative argument of who’s more at fault when a score happens.
I honestly don’t see this being solved here because people are dug in. I’m primarily objecting to the (IMO) shortsighted view that our Gs are the clear and obvious culprits and just getting someone better would make us a playoff team or more. (I’m not trying to argue that our Gs are just fine, lol. We need a real NHL backup at the very least.)
Therefore, at the next level up, it’s Boughner’s fault too. Look at a comparative team and see for example how the Oilers are doing under Hitch. Small sample, but changing away from Boughner to Q (if available) might also right the ship by reducing a high ratio of high danger chances against. Point being, if the other team has 10 shots in 2 periods and score 2 goals but both were high risk situations, that’s no better than say 30 shots and 1 high risker.
This may be unpopular opinion but just because a goalie is in the NHL does not make him guaranteed better than ones who don’t play there.
Goal 3 was a great deflection high in the corner through the player’s legs. Goal 4 wasn’t crap by Lu he definitely could have had it.
lou has had it.i take reimer over lou!!!!! we should have won that game in regulation and then lou can't stop 1 player during the shoot out and what's even more unbelievable is that every ranger made the same exact move and lou couldn't stop any of them. another game where lou was severely outplayed in net by an opposing goalie. i'm afraid he just doesn't have it anymore. he's been great and i respect him, he'll probably play some good games in the future, but i fear his bad games will far outnumber his good games. could be time to call it a career.
Android 16
Registered User
It's the timing of the goals that's killer.
That SHG was atrocious. Had no business being in the NHL.
That SHG was atrocious. Had no business being in the NHL.
- Oct 7, 2006
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Nobody here is saying the goaltending hasn't been poor and can't be better. Nobody, not one person here. Everybody here wants better goaltending. What some are saying is that even with better goaltending, this team is only average and fighting for a playoff spot. I can understand why there is debate around this. The team has never scored as much as it has now, the shots are down, and we don't seem to be giving up too many scoring chances. But I think this all needs to be taken into context and I really don't think this team is that good. Even with better goaltending, we're only competing for a WC spot, we aren't locks.
Our offense looks way better than in years past, but guess what? Everybody else's does too. We're 10th in goals scored per game, which is great. BUT that is helped by having the most power play opportunities and a higher power play %. Give us average power play opportunities and we're probably just middle of the pack in scoring. I keep hearing how great it is we have guys that are scoring at PPG average, and yes that's great, but this season is not like any season we've had in probably 30 years. There are like 50 other players that are PPG or higher, so what we're doing isn't anything special. It feels like it is, because the Panthers have always had problems scoring, but compared to the rest of the league it's really not that great. If you look at high danger chances, we're in the bottom third of the league at 5v5, so again, not that great. I think a lot of this has to do with the lack of contribution outside of our major guys (huberg, barkov, hoff, dads, yandle), we really lack depth with troch out.
Our D is ok, it's probably about league average. I don't really feel like looking up all the stats, but I remember when I looked it up previously, our high danger chances against were a bit better than league average which is about what my eye test tells me. I think it's gotten better now that Kis is in and Petro out (hopefully permanently), and Ek has gotten much better in past 5-10 games. But there's still problems and it could be way better. Did you know Matheson leads the league in giveaways by a long mile? Doesn't surprise me given how many times I get upset at him with the puck. Bottom line, our D is ok now, but it's not a top tier D.
I also don't think Boog is terrible, but he can be upgraded. I cringe whenever Boog gives an interview. His "we have no excuses, but we're tired, at least we got a point" spiel is getting old. Our guys are way too passive with the lead. We aren't always ready to play. We play with so little intensity. This is generally harder to assess, separating what's on the players vs. coach, so I'll give this a pass, but I don't think anyone can argue he's anything special.
So if we had league average goaltending, are we a lock for the playoffs? I don't really think it's as certain as some here think. I've posted about this before, but if we just applied league average sv% to our shots against, we'd have something like another 12 goals, that's good enough for a +4 goal differential. But Boston in WC1 has +4, Montreal has +1 in WC2, Pitts has +5 and isn't even in a WC spot. I don't think it's so cut and dry. Take into account score effects and stuff, and we may not actually have scored as many goals if we don't let in as much, we always sit back when we have the lead. So with average goaltending, we're competing for a WC spot, but we're not a lock.
Basically, this team needs better goaltending for sure, that's undeniable. Nobody says otherwise. BUT there are a lot of other things we can improve on too, it's not just in net. Our offense, our D, our coaching is just about league average. If those areas were above average or excellent, who knows, maybe we'd be in a WC spot now. What I do know is that unless those areas are also addressed, adding better goaltending won't get us over the hump.
Our offense looks way better than in years past, but guess what? Everybody else's does too. We're 10th in goals scored per game, which is great. BUT that is helped by having the most power play opportunities and a higher power play %. Give us average power play opportunities and we're probably just middle of the pack in scoring. I keep hearing how great it is we have guys that are scoring at PPG average, and yes that's great, but this season is not like any season we've had in probably 30 years. There are like 50 other players that are PPG or higher, so what we're doing isn't anything special. It feels like it is, because the Panthers have always had problems scoring, but compared to the rest of the league it's really not that great. If you look at high danger chances, we're in the bottom third of the league at 5v5, so again, not that great. I think a lot of this has to do with the lack of contribution outside of our major guys (huberg, barkov, hoff, dads, yandle), we really lack depth with troch out.
Our D is ok, it's probably about league average. I don't really feel like looking up all the stats, but I remember when I looked it up previously, our high danger chances against were a bit better than league average which is about what my eye test tells me. I think it's gotten better now that Kis is in and Petro out (hopefully permanently), and Ek has gotten much better in past 5-10 games. But there's still problems and it could be way better. Did you know Matheson leads the league in giveaways by a long mile? Doesn't surprise me given how many times I get upset at him with the puck. Bottom line, our D is ok now, but it's not a top tier D.
I also don't think Boog is terrible, but he can be upgraded. I cringe whenever Boog gives an interview. His "we have no excuses, but we're tired, at least we got a point" spiel is getting old. Our guys are way too passive with the lead. We aren't always ready to play. We play with so little intensity. This is generally harder to assess, separating what's on the players vs. coach, so I'll give this a pass, but I don't think anyone can argue he's anything special.
So if we had league average goaltending, are we a lock for the playoffs? I don't really think it's as certain as some here think. I've posted about this before, but if we just applied league average sv% to our shots against, we'd have something like another 12 goals, that's good enough for a +4 goal differential. But Boston in WC1 has +4, Montreal has +1 in WC2, Pitts has +5 and isn't even in a WC spot. I don't think it's so cut and dry. Take into account score effects and stuff, and we may not actually have scored as many goals if we don't let in as much, we always sit back when we have the lead. So with average goaltending, we're competing for a WC spot, but we're not a lock.
Basically, this team needs better goaltending for sure, that's undeniable. Nobody says otherwise. BUT there are a lot of other things we can improve on too, it's not just in net. Our offense, our D, our coaching is just about league average. If those areas were above average or excellent, who knows, maybe we'd be in a WC spot now. What I do know is that unless those areas are also addressed, adding better goaltending won't get us over the hump.
GermanPanther
Foundation Defense
Hey everyone, all Goals on the Goalie and its the Goalie mistake?? I rewatch all the Goals from the Rangers maybe 5-10 times. And i find only a single Goal where Loungo has to make the safe.
Goal 1. Rangers alone infront the Net, it goes on Huberdeau or ekblad one of the two should stay with Zibanejad, huberdeau pass him by and go after the Puck, ekblad stand somewhere up the Goal and rushed back. I dont see where this was on Loungo.
Goal 2 ranger: I think not much to say about as, Ekblad you suck on the defensiv Side of the Game, that Goal goes so hard on you so 100000000% on you. So Puck focused, why you chase the Puck carrier on a 2on2 situation. Stay with your player still a 2on2 situation and 2 Second later a 4on2 for Panthers.
Goal 3 for the Rangers: A heck of a Goal. The Puck goes between the Legs of Belesky and he redirect it between the Leg into the Net. And you can see his legs right to the short side Post of Luongo. Impossible to catch for Loungo.
Goal 4 its on Loungo this was a glove or Shoulder save, even if it was a good shot the reaction to the shot comes after the Puck passed him and it was no hard shot so a catch you can make.
So we addition all up.
2 Goals go on the defensive play infront the Own Net, 2 times a Ranger stand alone infront of our own Net.
1 Goal was skill and luck
1 on the Goalie.
But to say now its all on the Goalie i would like not to agree on it. Also it is not the first time Goals against happen on us with weak D play and also with Ekblad or the 1st Line in play.
But in all the addition to the Goals beofre we get against us, the Goalie Situation getting worse and Loungo who loves to win and would like to give all he can do to get the Panthers back on track. But no matter what he tries, its never enough.
I said enough about Goalie Situation at all, but this Game goes not on him.
Goal 1. Rangers alone infront the Net, it goes on Huberdeau or ekblad one of the two should stay with Zibanejad, huberdeau pass him by and go after the Puck, ekblad stand somewhere up the Goal and rushed back. I dont see where this was on Loungo.
Goal 2 ranger: I think not much to say about as, Ekblad you suck on the defensiv Side of the Game, that Goal goes so hard on you so 100000000% on you. So Puck focused, why you chase the Puck carrier on a 2on2 situation. Stay with your player still a 2on2 situation and 2 Second later a 4on2 for Panthers.
Goal 3 for the Rangers: A heck of a Goal. The Puck goes between the Legs of Belesky and he redirect it between the Leg into the Net. And you can see his legs right to the short side Post of Luongo. Impossible to catch for Loungo.
Goal 4 its on Loungo this was a glove or Shoulder save, even if it was a good shot the reaction to the shot comes after the Puck passed him and it was no hard shot so a catch you can make.
So we addition all up.
2 Goals go on the defensive play infront the Own Net, 2 times a Ranger stand alone infront of our own Net.
1 Goal was skill and luck
1 on the Goalie.
But to say now its all on the Goalie i would like not to agree on it. Also it is not the first time Goals against happen on us with weak D play and also with Ekblad or the 1st Line in play.
But in all the addition to the Goals beofre we get against us, the Goalie Situation getting worse and Loungo who loves to win and would like to give all he can do to get the Panthers back on track. But no matter what he tries, its never enough.
I said enough about Goalie Situation at all, but this Game goes not on him.
- Oct 7, 2006
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I think it's fair to say our team is league average defense, offense, coaching and near league bottom goaltending. But I think what some of us are trying to say is that if any of the other parts of our game are better, we would be competing for a playoff spot today. I think it's simply unacceptable at this point in the rebuild that we don't have better defense and offense.
Nobody is saying the goalies are not bad, but this is a TEAM game. The team wins or loses together. If your goalies suck, the rest of your team needs to be better. If your offense sucks, your D and goalies need to be better. And so on. Even the elite teams have some areas that are better than others, few are elite in all areas.
Nah man. Just flat out wrong. I’m sick of people making excuses for our goalies. It’s f***ing sickening the save percentage we have and yes it is 100 percent on our goalies. For the millionth time every single f***ing team gives up these exact Salem plays yet we’re the only team with the god aweful goaltending numbers. It’s just a fact and no longer debateable. There’s gonna be high danger chances in the future. The goalie has to make more than the routine saves just like every other decent goalie in the league does. Period. Cut and dry simple
Our goaltending is bottom rung. If it was league average were in a playoff spot. Period. Cut and dry. Simple. Not debatable
- Oct 7, 2006
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No it's not cut and dry. As I already laid out earlier, league average goaltending gets us maybe another 10-12 goals. that does not mean automatic playoff spot. We are 2nd worse sv% overall, but we're actually only 7th worse at 5v5. There are other teams with worse goaltending, as hard as that is to believe.
GermanPanther
Foundation Defense
Even if you are sick on this, i dont make any comments on this Situation, cause for me you all far to late on this Point. But something different.
But definetly this Games goes not on the Goalie. holy shit if Ekblad stay with his man and Huberdeau stay with Zibanejad we win this Game 4-2. So yeah its all on the Goalies, ohhh no it wasn´t at all.
A Top3 Pick and 2 1st Round Picks, 2 Top 3 Picks should be able to make defensive plays on this Hockey Level. maybe your Goalie Situation maybe right on other Games not on this one.
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