Speculation: 5/22/19 Sharks Roster Discussion 2019-2020

[Jaleel619]

I dont care. Im a real shark.

 

[Lebanezer]

I dont care. Im a real shark.

You think because you want Micheal Haley to play you’re a “real shark.” What does that even mean?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

You think because you want Micheal Haley to play you’re a “real shark.” What does that even mean?

Grit is the answer. Does not matter what the question is.

 

[hohosaregood]

Yea no, Hayley gives Kane room to actually, ya know, focus on playing hockey.

I don't have anything against fighting or grit, but Haley's just not a good enforcer. He's not a good pest, he's not a big hitter, he's not a great fighter, and he's not a very good player. Overall, he's a pretty low end asset. He's also really predictable when it comes to picking his fights. The other team knows exactly what they need to do to get him in the penalty box.

However, he played well during the playoffs, more so than most of us expected but I still don't want him on the team.

 

[hohosaregood]

I dont care. Im a real shark.

I want a real grinder/enforcer.

 

[Jargon]

Burns at forward, Haley in the lineup, maybe Jones can take Burns' spot on D and Vlasic plays goalie?

 

[WSS11]

I want a real grinder/enforcer.

man I wish we had a prime Torres

 

[Pavelski2112]

man I wish we had a prime Torres

Man, Torres when he wasn't injured or suspended was a godsend. The perfect bottom-sixer.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

man I wish we had a prime Torres

LOL. Maybe its a good thing we don't have 1st round picks the next 2 drafts. You know DW would be targetting one of the big PF's who can't skate ..

 

[hohosaregood]

Man, Torres when he wasn't injured or suspended was a godsend. The perfect bottom-sixer.

It kinda sucks how we've had some pretty great bottom 6 guys but never all at the same time. Prime Torres-Desjardins-Wingels/Melker would be pretty awesome. Too bad they all missed each other by a couple years.

 

[WSS11]

LOL. Maybe its a good thing we don't have 1st round picks the next 2 drafts. You know DW would be targetting one of the big PF's who can't skate ..

That’s the he thing though, Torres was fast and made the opposing defense cough up the puck with his forecheck. We could easily find one of those in the draft.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He has to be really unhappy in his situation to be considering going to LA. He is not even guaranteed a playoff chance there but if his family is unhappy there, he has to do what is best for them.

That being said, only he is responsible for the situation he is in.

If the wife wants to come back to California and he wants to avoid the turmoil that comes with Toronto media and fans lambasting a declining player. But given his one year left, going to a non-contender to start the year isn't that big of a deal because he can be moved at the deadline as a rental for a shot at the Cup.

 

[Pavelski2112]

If the wife wants to come back to California and he wants to avoid the turmoil that comes with Toronto media and fans lambasting a declining player. But given his one year left, going to a non-contender to start the year isn't that big of a deal because he can be moved at the deadline as a rental for a shot at the Cup.

Yea, so he should go to somewhere like Pheonix.

f*** LA, he knows what it means for a guy with his past to play there.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yea, so he should go to somewhere like Pheonix.

**** LA, he knows what it means for a guy with his past to play there.

If Arizona shows interest in making a deal that makes sense for Toronto. LA has expiring contracts that they could move in this sort of a deal. Arizona doesn't really. The Leafs would probably have to focus on more of a pay-to-take sort of deal with Arizona instead of a shuffling of contracts sort of deal with LA.

 

[NewMuzu24]

Hi Folks. Long-time reader/lurker diving in on a slow Friday afternoon! Been a Sharks fan since 91 and going into year 4 of being an STH. Hoping to have some fun and, no doubt, lively discussions in shared suffering with you fine people.

Built a roster in CapFriendly ($83M cap) based on the following assumptions:
-EK65 bails; DW lands Duchene as consolation
-Braun, Dell, Melker all traded for picks/prospects with no retention or salary coming back
-I did not consider/plan for the expansion draft
-Timo and Banker sign 2-yr bridge deals, a Ch-prospect makes the jump
-Heed and Ryan are brought back on affordable deals, PDB actually plays them, and they are replacement level
-Suomela brought back and is a replacement level 3rd liner (likely the biggest stretch here)
-Jumbo takes big discount and stays for $1.2M

Roster:
Meier (4.5M) – Duchene (9.2M) – Pavelski (5.0M)
Kane (7.0M) – Hertl (5.625M) – Ch-something (0.8M)
Labanc (3.25M) – Couture (8.0M) – Suomela (1.2M)
Radil (0.7M) – Thornton (1.2M) – Sorensen (1.5M)
Goodrow (0.925M) – True (0.8M)

Simek (0.675M) – Burns (8.0M)
Vlasic (7.0M) – Heed (1.2M)
Dillon (3.25M) – Ryan (1.0M)
Middleton (0.735M)

Jones (5.75M) - McElhinney (1.8M)

Cap Used: $80,486,667
Cap Space: $2,513,333

Some thoughts/concerns:
-The Defense. Don’t love it. Can someone decent be had in FA for ~3M to replace Ryan or Heed? Or trade Dillon+ for a marginal upgrade that someone else might be moving due to a logjam/cap crunch? Can trade Dillon instead of Braun depending on preference.
-Goaltending. I know McElhenney had a good season in CAR, but he is 35. Could he be had that cheap on a 1-2 yr deal to be backup or 1B if none of our prospects are ready? I’m, for some reason, optimistic that last season was the worst Jones we’ll get for a couple seasons.
-Pavs. I don’t love the idea of giving him term, but I assumed someone offered him a Marleau contract (18.75M over 3yrs) and DW countered with a frontloaded/signing bonus-ed 20M over 4yrs and Pavs says yes because he’s awesome. Brings down cap hit, still under 35 so if he retires it’s fine. If not him, do we try to keep Nyquist? Go after someone like Ferland? I know those aren't equal to Pavs but are options in the same price range.
-Wishful thinking on contracts (likely)? If these players are good enough the $2.5 in cap space can be sprinkled around to be more realistic.
-Suomela. Even if he can be a replacement level 4th liner, he and Sorensen can swap depending on who is hot. Doubt this would/should happen. Could take a flyer on someone in FA for ~2M as a 3rd line winger. Could bring back Donskoi here @ ~3.2M? Might we just keep Melker and ride that straight to hell? Looking at it now I think that whole RW side is a problem.
-I feel that in general there’s not enough upgrade over last year’s roster to move the needle. It would take that forward group being as dominant as I can imagine them being and Boughner having a marked positive effect on the D play to really get there. Also better goaltending, but I can’t imagine it getting worse than last year…

Anyway, thought I’d give it a go. I promise not to have walls of text in the future. Cheers!

 

[PackShark]

If Arizona shows interest in making a deal that makes sense for Toronto. LA has expiring contracts that they could move in this sort of a deal. Arizona doesn't really. The Leafs would probably have to focus on more of a pay-to-take sort of deal with Arizona instead of a shuffling of contracts sort of deal with LA.

My speculation is that Blake/Tmac probably tell Patty that they’ll do him a solid at the deadline and send him to a contender if there’s interest. So kinda makes sense for him to waive to go there if that’s the case.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Hi Folks. Long-time reader/lurker diving in on a slow Friday afternoon! Been a Sharks fan since 91 and going into year 4 of being an STH. Hoping to have some fun and, no doubt, lively discussions in shared suffering with you fine people.

Built a roster in CapFriendly ($83M cap) based on the following assumptions:
-EK65 bails; DW lands Duchene as consolation
-Braun, Dell, Melker all traded for picks/prospects with no retention or salary coming back
-I did not consider/plan for the expansion draft
-Timo and Banker sign 2-yr bridge deals, a Ch-prospect makes the jump
-Heed and Ryan are brought back on affordable deals, PDB actually plays them, and they are replacement level
-Suomela brought back and is a replacement level 3rd liner (likely the biggest stretch here)
-Jumbo takes big discount and stays for $1.2M

Roster:
Meier (4.5M) – Duchene (9.2M) – Pavelski (5.0M)
Kane (7.0M) – Hertl (5.625M) – Ch-something (0.8M)
Labanc (3.25M) – Couture (8.0M) – Suomela (1.2M)
Radil (0.7M) – Thornton (1.2M) – Sorensen (1.5M)
Goodrow (0.925M) – True (0.8M)

Simek (0.675M) – Burns (8.0M)
Vlasic (7.0M) – Heed (1.2M)
Dillon (3.25M) – Ryan (1.0M)
Middleton (0.735M)

Jones (5.75M) - McElhinney (1.8M)

Cap Used: $80,486,667
Cap Space: $2,513,333

Some thoughts/concerns:
-The Defense. Don’t love it. Can someone decent be had in FA for ~3M to replace Ryan or Heed? Or trade Dillon+ for a marginal upgrade that someone else might be moving due to a logjam/cap crunch? Can trade Dillon instead of Braun depending on preference.
-Goaltending. I know McElhenney had a good season in CAR, but he is 35. Could he be had that cheap on a 1-2 yr deal to be backup or 1B if none of our prospects are ready? I’m, for some reason, optimistic that last season was the worst Jones we’ll get for a couple seasons.
-Pavs. I don’t love the idea of giving him term, but I assumed someone offered him a Marleau contract (18.75M over 3yrs) and DW countered with a frontloaded/signing bonus-ed 20M over 4yrs and Pavs says yes because he’s awesome. Brings down cap hit, still under 35 so if he retires it’s fine. If not him, do we try to keep Nyquist? Go after someone like Ferland? I know those aren't equal to Pavs but are options in the same price range.
-Wishful thinking on contracts (likely)? If these players are good enough the $2.5 in cap space can be sprinkled around to be more realistic.
-Suomela. Even if he can be a replacement level 4th liner, he and Sorensen can swap depending on who is hot. Doubt this would/should happen. Could take a flyer on someone in FA for ~2M as a 3rd line winger. Could bring back Donskoi here @ ~3.2M? Might we just keep Melker and ride that straight to hell? Looking at it now I think that whole RW side is a problem.
-I feel that in general there’s not enough upgrade over last year’s roster to move the needle. It would take that forward group being as dominant as I can imagine them being and Boughner having a marked positive effect on the D play to really get there. Also better goaltending, but I can’t imagine it getting worse than last year…

Anyway, thought I’d give it a go. I promise not to have walls of text in the future. Cheers!

Like the ideas but:

Pavs is not making enough. I expect him to make close to 7M.
Duchene is making a little too much. I was think 9M but 9.2M is close enough.
That D definitely is middle-of-the-line at best. Bigger problem is that they only have 1 real puck-mover in Burns. Heed is ok but cannot be trusted in a top-4 D role. Not yet anyway.
Couture in a 3rd line role is not a good idea. Better to move Pavs to 3C and move Couture to wing next to Duchene.

Also, welcome to the boards.

 

[WTFetus]

He has to be really unhappy in his situation to be considering going to LA. He is not even guaranteed a playoff chance there but if his family is unhappy there, he has to do what is best for them.

That being said, only he is responsible for the situation he is in.

Plus, out of all his recent coaches (Wilson, McLellan, Deboer, Babcock), he had the best relationship with McLellan and vice versa.

 

[Wedontneedroads]

Any lineup with Dillon in it is a no-go for me. He is fine in the regular season, but come post season he can't hang with the heightened competition.

If this team really wants to win a Cup they need to start looking for playoff performers that can get it done when you are down to 4 teams left.

The Blues are a great example. Bortuzzo is essentially their Dillon, and was light years better than Dillon in that series.

I don't think Dillon is the only reason we lost, but you have to look at positions like that on the team and try to fix them if you are serious about winning.

 

[NewMuzu24]

Like the ideas but:

Pavs is not making enough. I expect him to make close to 7M.
Duchene is making a little too much. I was think 9M but 9.2M is close enough.
That D definitely is middle-of-the-line at best. Bigger problem is that they only have 1 real puck-mover in Burns. Heed is ok but cannot be trusted in a top-4 D role. Not yet anyway.
Couture in a 3rd line role is not a good idea. Better to move Pavs to 3C and move Couture to wing next to Duchene.

Also, welcome to the boards.

Thanks for the welcome and feedback!

Agreed on Pavs. Just wondering how much longevity is going to play into his next deal. Hard to imagine him playing 3 or 4 more good years with his speed and the beatings he takes in front of the net. That won't prevent him from getting 6-7M from someone though.

Also don't want to pay him $6.25M+ to play on line 3, although it doesn't matter where he plays if he can put up 30+ again. Wondering if that money is better spent on Myers/Gardiner or two marginal upgrades elsewhere.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Zaitsev is absolutely brutal. Leafs are getting incredibly lucky he wants out.

You need to watch his KHL highlights. Dude has some skill. I think he needs some good NHL coaching. If he's uncoachable then sure, avoid like the plague, but he looks to have size, skill and good skating ability.

 

[sampler]

Thanks for the welcome and feedback!

Agreed on Pavs. Just wondering how much longevity is going to play into his next deal. Hard to imagine him playing 3 or 4 more good years with his speed and the beatings he takes in front of the net. That won't prevent him from getting 6-7M from someone though.

Also don't want to pay him $6.25M+ to play on line 3, although it doesn't matter where he plays if he can put up 30+ again. Wondering if that money is better spent on Myers/Gardiner or two marginal upgrades elsewhere.

With pavs is largely about what he brings off the ice as much as on it. I mean nearly 40 goals is pretty damn good on the ice and tips and hands dont age really. That said, his lack of speed will get more apparent and I worry about his defensive play given that slow backcheck.

However, pavs value is in being extraordinarily respected not just throughout the sharks organization but throughout the entire hockey world. Hell, he is known as captain america and helped bring the US to within a goal of gold. He has been a captain and leader dating back to his national championship Wisconsin team.

For on ice production, he likely lands 7M anyways (I mean 38 goals is impressive), but what makes it less risky is that his hands should stay good and his heart and leadership never fade. I think if he walks, the culture of the team is completely altered and I would worry big time about chemistry. DeBoer aint a stud at building that, so I would fear a meltdown in the room at the first major adversity.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I think if he walks, the culture of the team is completely altered and I would worry big time about chemistry.

Oh goodness, I hope we don't alter the culture of a team that has won exactly *checks notes* 0 Stanley Cups!

I'm all for keeping Pavelski, but if him leaving changes the culture, that is not a point in favor of retaining him.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Oh goodness, I hope we don't alter the culture of a team that has won exactly *checks notes* 0 Stanley Cups!

I'm all for keeping Pavelski, but if him leaving changes the culture, that is not a point in favor of retaining him.

To be fair, since becoming captain, Pavs has led us to a Cup Final and another Conference Final in 4 years.

 

[Jargon]

To be fair, since becoming captain, Pavs has led us to a Cup Final and another Conference Final in 4 years.

Yep. And the team has consistently fought back and showed grit and fought against adversity. I’m not sure that’s all Pavs but it does feel like he’s the heart of the team and the players really follow and respect him.

I’d love for him to be back.