Post-Game Talk: #49: Jets 1 at FLYERS 3, Monday, Jan. 28, 2019, 7:00 pm ET

[BernieParent]

I gave the cat two minutes for instigating. Just sayin'.

The dog embellished.

 

[tucson83]

This is actually hilarious because that year we finished last and didn't get Kane.

so it means dont try again, keep winning every year and getting eliminated in the conference finals by the pens that tanked for their players?

 

[BernieParent]

You must have missed the rule change coming next year where only players whose last names end in 'ughes' are eligible to score goals. Any other player who puts the puck in the net has it count as an own goal.

Did the Leafs request a sounds-like subclause?

 

[deadhead]

Lmfao.

Hart will do well, and we will leap from 7th to get Hughes or Kakko. Book it, my reefer madness mofo. We are going to have our cake and eat it too.

I'd love it, but realistically, Hughes is not a game changer, he's not McDavid, he's not a physical monster like Matthews. Doubt he'll be as good as Crosby who has a stouter build. Better than Nico/Patrick - but it's not the end of the world if we ended up picking 10th.
It's not like a tank guarantees we get him or Kakko.
We'll either get a solid prospect who can help in 2-3 years or great trade bait.

We're gonna have a boatload of talented prospects arriving the next 2 years, we already have a solid young core that's just starting to mature - even Crosby couldn't turn the Pens into instant winners, you need depth and goaltending. We've finally got a goaltender.

Flyers weren't as good as they looked last year, getting 98 points with below par goaltending, or as bad as they've looked this year.
It takes time for prospects to become reliable players, it's easy to forget how young they are:
Hart (20), Patrick (20), TK (21), Provorov (22), Sanheim (22), Lindblom (22), Vorobyev (22), Hagg (23), Laughton (24)

All of these prospects will be knocking on the door in 2 years:
AHL: Myers (22), Friedman (23), NAK (22), Bailey (23), Bunnaman (20), Twarynski (21), Rubtsov (20), Kase (21), Laberge (20)
CHL: Frost (19), Ratcliffe (19), Strome (20), Wylie (19)
NCAA: Farabee (18), O'Brien (19), Cates (18), Kalynuk (21), Allison (21), Laczynski (21)
SHL: Hogberg (20), Sandstrom (22), Fedotov (22)
Ignoring players like St Ivany, Ginning, Ersson, Ustimenko, etc. because they're 3 or more years away

It comes down to Fletcher making smart moves, not trying rush the "process," but using his assets wisely.

 

[Starat327]

Did the Leafs request a sounds-like subclause?

Ooooh man, i hope not. Vancouver-Toronto Finals for the foreseeable future.

 

[Johnk0728]

Who cares about next years draft now..... just keep playing the kids and let Hart get more time in net. If the goalie keeps playing like this and the team keeps playing like this around him; the Flyers could go on a huge winning streak. The other teams might even stop playing their back-up goalies against us. I think its fun to watch Patrick, Sanheim, Lindblom and Vorobyev play while Hart keeps stopping pucks. A whole lot better than watching Weise, Manning, PEB, Vandelvelde etc in years past.

 

[Rebels57]

Who cares about next years draft now..... just keep playing the kids and let Hart get more time in net. If the goalie keeps playing like this and the team keeps playing like this around him; the Flyers could go on a huge winning streak. The other teams might even stop playing their back-up goalies against us. I think its fun to watch Patrick, Sanheim, Lindblom and Vorobyev play while Hart keeps stopping pucks. A whole lot better than watching Weise, Manning, PEB, Vandelvelde etc in years past.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You know what's funny? Even with all of his tears about the Flyers winning and not getting Hughes, we're still right here... one point from picking 3rd, two points from picking 2nd (before the lottery, obviously)...

We could still easily end up with a top pick, on top of finding our franchise goalie and watching the young guys improve. For all we know this little winning streak will end and be followed by a horrible losing streak, so there's no point in complaining this much about our draft position with 33 games to go.

Gordon coaches this team. A losing streak is likely. If the guys lose confidence or aren't clicking they have minimal system to fall back on and then we get a fun downward spiral.

 

[Johnk0728]

Gordon coaches this team. A losing streak is likely. If the guys lose confidence or aren't clicking they have minimal system to fall back on and then we get a fun downward spiral.

Hockey players win games. You guys overrate the coaching system way too much. A system does not replace confidence or good goaltending.

 

[Beef Invictus]

What are you talking about? They had great talent, Hakstol deep sixed them.
Get with the program!

Hextall should have just admitted he was rebuilding and he'd still be the GM.
He inherited a boatload of crap, a half dozen young forwards, no depth, no prospects and no defense (Coburn is the only one left in the league).

Hakstol did in fact make the situation worse by playing the worst players in the worst situations. Glad you're finally understanding this.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hockey players win games. You guys overrate the coaching system way too much. A system does not replace confidence or good goaltending.

You underrate coaching. Look at the turnaround for the Islanders when they got competent coaching. Look how Chicago actually go worse when they downgraded. Look at how the Flyers improved when they were allowed to play offense.

Hakstol got good goaltending until he trashed our goalies. It didn't help. He's had plenty of high end talent. It didn't help. If the players are working towards something supremely stupid, it's all a waste. That was what Hakstol had them doing; working towards futility with his orbital system.

 

[Beef Invictus]

so it means dont try again, keep winning every year and getting eliminated in the conference finals by the pens that tanked for their players?

I think the Oilers may suit you more.

 

[BernieParent]

I'd love it, but realistically, Hughes is not a game changer, he's not McDavid, he's not a physical monster like Matthews. Doubt he'll be as good as Crosby who has a stouter build. Better than Nico/Patrick - but it's not the end of the world if we ended up picking 10th.
It's not like a tank guarantees we get him or Kakko.

Hughes doesn't have to be McDavid, Matthews, or Crosby to be a game changer. I think he has the goods to be a high-level 2C with the chance to be a 1C. Having him and Patrick vying for top dog would be a very pleasant problem to have for years to come.

Parenthetically, I find it odd that you describe Matthews as a "physical monster". From all I have seen and read, a big knock on him is that he tends to move to the periphery when the rough stuff starts.

We'll either get a solid prospect who can help in 2-3 years or great trade bait.

We're gonna have a boatload of talented prospects arriving the next 2 years, we already have a solid young core that's just starting to mature - even Crosby couldn't turn the Pens into instant winners, you need depth and goaltending. We've finally got a goaltender.

I agree with you here. One possible silver lining to falling out of the top 5 (arbitrarily) would be a greater inclination to use the pick for more immediate help, like in a package for Seguin or a true top-pairing Dman. I'm not saying trade it for the sake of getting an NHLer but a high 1st with the range of prospects in the system may be very enticing to someone in the off-season.

 

[deadhead]

Hughes doesn't have to be McDavid, Matthews, or Crosby to be a game changer. I think he has the goods to be a high-level 2C with the chance to be a 1C. Having him and Patrick vying for top dog would be a very pleasant problem to have for years to come.

Parenthetically, I find it odd that you describe Matthews as a "physical monster". From all I have seen and read, a big knock on him is that he tends to move to the periphery when the rough stuff starts.

Just his size and skill package, doesn't mean he uses it now, but the potential is there.

Couts, Patrick, Frost is a heck of a trio down the middle, with Rubtsov on the way (hopefully).

We're seeing Patrick raising his game and starting to use his strength.

Frost is a projection, but so is Hughes, but it's hard to question a guy who was a dominant CHL center D+1 and has raised his game another notch this year at 19. Frost may not be as good as Hughes, but I don't think there's going to be this huge gap (i.e. more like Crosby - Giroux in their primes).

 

[Striiker]

Gordon coaches this team. A losing streak is likely. If the guys lose confidence or aren't clicking they have minimal system to fall back on and then we get a fun downward spiral.

Yeah, Gordon seems to be a good guy, communicates well with the players, and is much more fair with icetime and usage of youth... but he's a horrible head coach, even at the AHL level.

They've been winning the last few games because suddenly they're scoring again, 19 goals in the last 4 games (4.75 G/GP), but that's obviously not sustainable.

 

[BernieParent]

Just his size and skill package, doesn't mean he uses it now, but the potential is there.

Couts, Patrick, Frost is a heck of a trio down the middle, with Rubtsov on the way (hopefully).

We're seeing Patrick raising his game and starting to use his strength.

Frost is a projection, but so is Hughes, but it's hard to question a guy who was a dominant CHL center D+1 and has raised his game another notch this year at 19. Frost may not be as good as Hughes, but I don't think there's going to be this huge gap (i.e. more like Crosby - Giroux in their primes).

I share the POV with several here that yet another name in the prospect mix isn't a big rise in the blood pressure, but a talent like Hughes would be very welcome. I am heartened by the names you mention and have mentioned in the past because, ignoring a top 10 pick this year, the Flyers still have a very impressive pipeline.

Would you or others who have seen him see Hughes as having Kane or Gaudreau potential? I'm being lazy and not going to the Prospects board.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, Gordon seems to be a good guy, communicates well with the players, and is much more fair with icetime and usage of youth... but he's a horrible head coach, even at the AHL level.

They've been winning the last few games because suddenly they're scoring again, 19 goals in the last 4 games (4.75 G/GP), but that's obviously not sustainable.

They said they were diligently working on their defensive coverage and it showed last night, but we'll see how long that lasts.

I think this team could score a decent amount more if they dumped the puck less and focused on controlled entry, but that's Gordonian hockey. I really liked the first couple games where they hadn't embraced the dump-in so much and were combining the old controlled entry with setting up real chances.

 

[Striiker]

They said they were diligently working on their defensive coverage and it showed last night, but we'll see how long that lasts.

I think this team could score a decent amount more if they dumped the puck less and focused on controlled entry, but that's Gordonian hockey. I really liked the first couple games where they hadn't embraced the dump-in so much and were combining the old controlled entry with setting up real chances.

For sure, this team has a lot of talent and should be scoring WAY more than they have been. But they've had two horrible coaches holding them back and actively making them play ways that suppress offense. Perimeter garbage and dump and chase garbage. A complete waste of our players.

 

[forzanerazzurri]

I have never given a rat's ass about getting Hughes.

Tanking was always ridiculous because the talent on the team is too good to finish bottom 3 in the league. In order for that to happen you'd need stuff like Patrick, Lindblom, Provorov, Sanheim and others to struggle to the point where you'd question their future and maybe Fletcher makes panic moves. Not to mention Hart. No one should want that.

Also, you're not getting Quenneville if this team finishes in the bottom 3 and you'll have a harder time getting a top UFA. I'll take Quenneville and Panarin over Jack Hughes.

This Nerazurri guy and Tucson are obviously the same person, we're getting double trolled.

Yeah it's so ridiculous that the team was actually borderline last for the first half of the season. Too good to finish in the bottom 3, except for about half a season, right? Why would fletcher make panic moves if he was facilitating a tank? RFA Players and unemployed Coaches don't give a shit where the team finished last year and if you really believe they are too talented to be so bad, then any coach/RFA with a brain would also know that. You are contradicting yourself throughout your entire post. This team is young. If you wanted to actually tank, there are ways to do it without having to "question the future" of those developing players. The first step would have been leaving hart in the AHL all year. Like this stuff isn't rocket science fellas, but sometimes it is I guess.

 

[BernieParent]

They said they were diligently working on their defensive coverage and it showed last night, but we'll see how long that lasts.

I think this team could score a decent amount more if they dumped the puck less and focused on controlled entry, but that's Gordonian hockey. I really liked the first couple games where they hadn't embraced the dump-in so much and were combining the old controlled entry with setting up real chances.

I don't know which is more frustrating to watch: dump-ins to the offensive zone or dump-outs from the defensive zone. There were at least a half-dozen lazy dump-out fails resulting in prolonged attacking time for the Jets.

 

[Beef Invictus]

For sure, this team has a lot of talent and should be scoring WAY more than they have been. But they've had two horrible coaches holding them back and actively making them play ways that suppress offense. Perimeter garbage and dump and chase garbage. A complete waste of our players.

In terms of falling short under both, my eye is on Voracek. Hakstol's perimeter system meant Voracek's playmaking was neutered since he didn't actually have much to set up. And now Gordon's Heavydump neuters Voracek's entry and possession game.

But, this is the case where the player needs to do more. Voracek has the skill (and matching cap hit) to expect him to find a way to be a force in either scheme. So, buddy, make it work. Make yourself a threat. Adapt. JVR and Patrick have, so get on it.

That he really hasn't and is an inconsistent threat has me ready to move him if that's to be the shakeup. I resisted the notion because it was hard to judge most of the roster under Hak, but I am at peace with it now.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't know which is more frustrating to watch: dump-ins to the offensive zone or dump-outs from the defensive zone. There were at least a half-dozen lazy dump-out fails resulting in prolonged attacking time for the Jets.

Ye Olde Grossmannnnnnnnnnnnnnnne

 

[Striiker]

In terms of falling short under both, my eye is on Voracek. Hakstol's perimeter system meant Voracek's playmaking was neutered since he didn't actually have much to set up. And now Gordon's Heavydump neuters Voracek's entry and possession game.

But, this is the case where the player needs to do more. Voracek has the skill (and matching cap hit) to expect him to find a way to be a force in either scheme. So, buddy, make it work. Make yourself a threat. Adapt.

That he really hasn't and is an inconsistent threat has me ready to move him if that's to be the shakeup. I resisted the notion because it was hard to judge most of the roster under Hak, but I am at peace with it now.

Meh... I don't agree with that. I think his lack of points has people over-analyzing him.

Statistically, he's not even having a bad year, except for on the PP.

Even strength points:
2015-2016 - 32
2016-2017 - 38
2017-2018 - 50
2018-2019 - 31 (pacing for 52, which would be a career high)

Powerplay points:
2015-2016 - 23
2016-2017 - 23
2017-2018 - 35
2018-2019 - 8 (pacing for 13, which would be his lowest since 2011-2012)

 

[CSKA1974]

I love Hart. Wow we finally have a game changing goalie.

But damn you for being so good and having our tank messed up

Actual photograph of Hart messing with the tank

 

[Magua]

I'd love it, but realistically, Hughes is not a game changer, he's not McDavid, he's not a physical monster like Matthews. Doubt he'll be as good as Crosby who has a stouter build. Better than Nico/Patrick - but it's not the end of the world if we ended up picking 10th.

Not a "game changer." Sure, bud. The definition of "game changer" is not reduced to McDavid or else. He has a chance to be a top 3 player in the NHL for a long time with those two "game changers" you listed. Only McDavid plays at the skating, stickhandling, mental speed Hughes does.

Just stop. For someone who thought Patrick was as good as Tavares this season, you sure are minimizing an actually special talent. I doubt you've seen him much (did you see an injured WJC game where he played 10 minutes, is that it? I bet it is), and your statement reeks of sh*tty self-rationalization.