Post-Game Talk: #45 | Stars at Flyers | January 18, 2024 | Flyers win 5-1

[Flyerfan4life]

i feel like ive seen this movie before..

squeak into POs..

exit first round.. no high draft pick no changes at all! except yet another wasted season..


yahhh... just enjoy the wins alright...

 

[Beef Invictus]

A hockey team isn't a house, and it's possible to fix a team without getting rid of every single piece.

Can you list the examples of this working

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

The irony is not lost on me here.

We’ve all been here long enough to remember when “tanking” was defined as trading multiple non core pieces and playing youth to see what they had.

That definition was then magically given to what a “rebuild” is. Said person that did that proceeded to act like he thought of the idea himself and didn’t fight against that very thing for months/years.

 

[trostol]

their winning that's great...goes a long way to boost the confidence of the kids..but in the more than 2 3 year long run..its fools gold because they do not have the organizational depth to sustain it longer than that. They have kids playing about their heads but none i would call elite talent, with as far as i can see..just 1 elite talent in the pipeline

So in reality they should still be selling to bring the prospect pool up..but they won't. Or I should say i would be shocked if they did

 

[Kelmitchell2]

their winning that's great...goes a long way to boost the confidence of the kids..but in the more than 2 3 year long run..its fools gold because they do not have the organizational depth to sustain it longer than that. They have kids playing about their heads but none i would call elite talent, with as far as i can see..just 1 elite talent in the pipeline

So in reality they should still be selling to bring the prospect pool up..but they won't. Or I should say i would be shocked if they did

Clearly you haven't seen Owen "elite" Tippett

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I responded to a second person who compared this to a house though. Where do you think the term ‘rebuild’ comes from?

You can "build" and "rebuild" a zillion things besides houses, and plenty of things can be "rebuilt" using some of the existing parts.

 

[TCTC]

their winning that's great...goes a long way to boost the confidence of the kids..but in the more than 2 3 year long run..its fools gold because they do not have the organizational depth to sustain it longer than that. They have kids playing about their heads but none i would call elite talent, with as far as i can see..just 1 elite talent in the pipeline

So in reality they should still be selling to bring the prospect pool up..but they won't. Or I should say i would be shocked if they did

We already have two 1sts (and potentially two 2nds) this year though. It's not like there will be no opportunity to add to the pool without selling.
And how big is the chance to add elite talent by trading Seeler, Walker, or Laughton? They'll bring us mid to late 1sts at best.

 

[GKJ]

You can "build" and "rebuild" a zillion things besides houses, and plenty of things can be "rebuilt" using some of the existing parts.

But you’re actually taking it apart and building it back up.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

But you’re actually taking it apart and building it back up.

You don’t think that’s what they’re doing?

New president, new GM, 2nd year coaching staff, 4 rookies, 11 players 26 & under, 8 or 9 players who weren’t on the roster or regulars last yr.

I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[VladDrag]

You don’t think that’s what they’re doing?

New president, new GM, 2nd year coaching staff, 4 rookies, 11 players 26 & under, 8 or 9 players who weren’t on the roster or regulars last yr.

I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about.

How you feeling about Frost?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

their winning that's great...goes a long way to boost the confidence of the kids..but in the more than 2 3 year long run..its fools gold because they do not have the organizational depth to sustain it longer than that. They have kids playing about their heads but none i would call elite talent, with as far as i can see..just 1 elite talent in the pipeline

So in reality they should still be selling to bring the prospect pool up..but they won't. Or I should say i would be shocked if they did

They are never going to sell off as many players as some want around here. They may make 2 or 3 moves which probably won’t be good enough. They aren’t going to trade half the roster between now and the deadline.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You don’t think that’s what they’re doing?

New president, new GM, 2nd year coaching staff, 4 rookies, 11 players 26 & under, 8 or 9 players who weren’t on the roster or regulars last yr.

I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about.

It has not been what they're doing. Not a single prominent management figure is "new" by the way. Promoting from within is "old."


But because I'm positive now, I fully support the way they've continued doing the same stuff they've always done, including only trading guys the coach doesn't like and not anyone with actual value for the future. Continuity is good. It is easy. That's positive. Having results despite your process and not because of it is excellent because it shows you have good luck!

 

[Ghosts Beer]

How you feeling about Frost?

I’m loving it. Who isn’t?

 

[Magua]

How you feeling about Frost?

I'm ready to have the discussion he's better offensively than MacEwen. Possibly better than Nic Petan.

 

[eramosat]

It's also a reflection on how much they missed Couturier.

So true. Fletcher made objectively idiotic GM moves. But he did also get handcuffed by a couple of bad luck events including Couts entirely out, who, now when he's back, reminds us all how good he is at hockeying.

Not that I think Couts' return simply explains 2023-24 Flyer season...not by a long-shot. When the end-of season poll happens, Couts' return will get a lot of votes as will Ersson emergence, Torts' influence, PK supremacy plus the individual upgrade in play from players as varied as Konecny, Sanheim, Tippet, Frost, Walker...man, we are gonna have fun in the end-of-season poll!

 

[Kelmitchell2]

You don’t think that’s what they’re doing?

New president, new GM, 2nd year coaching staff, 4 rookies, 11 players 26 & under, 8 or 9 players who weren’t on the roster or regulars last yr.

I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about.

I mean, signing staal wasn't a rebuild move, neither was keeping Laughton, sanhiem for Krug (fell through) isn't a rebuild move either, so you can't really blame people for not having much faith in a franchise who hasn't given them any reason to be trusted you know?

 

[deadhead]

I mean, signing staal wasn't a rebuild move, neither was keeping Laughton, sanhiem for Krug (fell through) isn't a rebuild move either, so you can't really blame people for not having much faith in a franchise who hasn't given them any reason to be trusted you know?

It was Sanheim (8yrs through 34) for Krug (4 yrs, easily bought out when Michkov comes over) and a 1st rd pick- yes, that's a rebuild move. Sacrificing the present for the future.

Staal was a one year deal for close to minimum wage, for a #7, now #8 D-man. A nothing move.

Keeping Laughton (depending on what was really offered) is a balance between future assets and what he offered as a role model to younger players. Whether keeping him was worth it is debatable.

Dumping Hayes and TDL for minor picks and some cap room ($7M this year, $2 next year, $3.5 in two years) is a rebuild move, albeit a minor one, but more addition by subtraction.

Trading Provorov was a major rebuild move.

 

[Magua]

It was Sanheim (8yrs through 34) for Krug (4 yrs, easily bought out when Michkov comes over) and a 1st rd pick- yes, that's a rebuild move. Sacrificing the present for the future.

Aren't you the same guy who loves to tell us the low %s of 1st round picks hitting? Odds on that pick being a top pair caliber defender? Seems to me like swapping Sanheim, in his prime looking like the top pair stud he's always been, for a 32 year old Krug signed for 3 years, for the addition of a mid-1st, isn't really a present or future move. It was a harebrained idea, initiated by Torts, that the team was saved from making by a NTC. It's horrifying that it was ever that close to done.

And you're also doing the fan fic thing where you're adding a 1st rounder. There was never any report about that. Seravalli-stamped report about a 1st? Fake. You sitting in sweats at the computer deciding a 1st was on the table? It's plausible!

Dumping Hayes and TDL for minor picks and some cap room ($7M this year, $2 next year, $3.5 in two years) is a rebuild move, albeit a minor one, but more addition by subtraction.

Trading Provorov was a major rebuild move.

You said it yourself: addition by subtraction. All of these moves qualify. Addition by subtraction is not rebuilding!

 

[Kelmitchell2]

It was Sanheim (8yrs through 34) for Krug (4 yrs, easily bought out when Michkov comes over) and a 1st rd pick- yes, that's a rebuild move. Sacrificing the present for the future.

Staal was a one year deal for close to minimum wage, for a #7, now #8 D-man. A nothing move.

Keeping Laughton (depending on what was really offered) is a balance between future assets and what he offered as a role model to younger players. Whether keeping him was worth it is debatable.

Dumping Hayes and TDL for minor picks and some cap room ($7M this year, $2 next year, $3.5 in two years) is a rebuild move, albeit a minor one, but more addition by subtraction.

Trading Provorov was a major rebuild move.

I didn't mention the other 2 because those were obvious, but I don't think they wanted to trade sanhiem to help the rebuild, I think it was because they actually valued Krug a bit more if I'm being honest, I could be totally wrong, but the way the targeted him seemed a bit more than just a rebuild move, at least to me

 

[BackWithaVengeance]

Tbh, Attard and Ginning don't look like NHL players. Ginning is 24, and Attard will be 25 in two months. So with Risto untradeable without (and maybe even with) max retention, they need to move Walker or Seeler. Then next season:

Sanheim-Drysdale
York-Risto
Seeler-Zamula
Andrae

or

Sanheim-Drysdale
York-Walker
Zamula-Risto
Andrae

And that's totally fine. I don't follow the Phantoms close enough and appreciate your input. All I am trying to say is trade players if they aren't in your long-term plans or if their value is the most high. They missed their chance on Laughton last year and lucked out on the Sanheim deal thanks to Krug.

I understand that the Flyers are never going to go in a full tank, long year rebuild. İt's just the Flyers way to try to convince their fans base that they always want to be competitive. You like it or you don't but it is what it is. Nevertheless İ have faith in KJ, DB and JT. We'll I have too I guess. I just want them to be professional in every manner and don't get caught up by a great run/good season and continue their rebuild.

 

[deadhead]

I didn't mention the other 2 because those were obvious, but I don't think they wanted to trade sanhiem to help the rebuild, I think it was because they actually valued Krug a bit more if I'm being honest, I could be totally wrong, but the way the targeted him seemed a bit more than just a rebuild move, at least to me

People forget how bad Sanheim was last year, and he was just signed to a 8 year deal, if he doesn't turn it around his contract would have been worse than Risto. I don't think they valued Krug, rather, they would have made that deal b/c they thought they'd be a bottom ten team and by the time they got good, Krug would be an easy buyout. Getting rid of Sanheim was a way to get out from under that contract.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Trading Provorov was a culture move.

 

[freakydallas13]

Was it a rebuild when Torts said wins were more important than developing players?

 

[Fight4yourRight]

have to wonder how Provorov feels sitting way outside of the playoffs, and seeing the Flyers d thrive without him. Couldn’t have happened to a better guy

 

[Rebels57]

have to wonder how Provorov feels sitting way outside of the playoffs, and seeing the Flyers d thrive without him. Couldn’t have happened to a better guy

I'm sure he's really Proud.