Post-Game Talk: #45 | Stars at Flyers | January 18, 2024 | Flyers win 5-1

[BritainStix]

If you’re rebuilding, you deconstruct what you have and remove it and then build on what you tore down. If you rebuild a house, you don’t replace the siding, hire an exterminator to get rid of the bugs, turn an office into a kids bedroom, open a bank account to save for a car, and then do nothing to the actual structure of the house and say you rebuilt it.

The flyers NEED to sell. We have no real prospect depth outside of Bonk and Michov. You don't sustain winning teams by paying overachiever players. It's literally been the flyers plan for the last 3 decades.

This team is competitive right now. Which means with a few more pieces, they can build a sustained run of multiple years at going for the cup. You don't one and done, that's what bad teams do, and they bounce in an out of the playoffs for decades.

If you can get first round picks for Laughton and Walker, you snap their hands off. Walker is going to get paid this offseason. Laughton is a middle 6 complimentary piece that can be replaced from within.

If you can subtract from a team without causing any major holes, then you absolutely do that for a chance at sustained success. Give this young core another 5 first round draft talents in 2 years and watch them fly.

 

[VladDrag]

View attachment 806099

Real mysteries of the universe stuff why this team is surging the last couple weeks and improved on the year. It will debated for years to come.

This is the best part of last night, younger players carried the bulk of the weight. Frost, Tipp, Zamula, Farabee — all shined to various degrees.

That Tippett goal was awesome. I think it’s obvious that a fair amount of luck was on his side there. A no-look laser beam backhand spinn-o-rama goal requires luck no matter who you are. But it’s awesome to see him fully confident. In terms of pure rush offense, I am not sure it gets much better than what Tipp can bring - his speed and size is very unique and hard to get off the puck. If you continue to put him on the wing with TK and Couts, I think his point potential goes from 45-50 to 50-55. That frees up Farabee to play with Frost.

Speaking of Frost, that pass was sick. He continues to lead, or be near the top in on-ice xG. He’s been good the whole season, but the confidence is back and no really looks like a very good center.

Cates also looked good last night. He’s a bottom six winger, just let him be that.

Let’s see what they look like in 10 games, but it’s fun hockey to watch.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

@Captain Dave Poulin just throwing this out there. A "Feel the Jake" tribute video? For old timesies?

I don't make videos, unfortunately. Also, I have never heard that song before lol

 

[mr figgles]

They are bipolar

3-1-0 to start the season
2-6-1
5-0-0
1-3-1
7-0-1
2-4-3
5-0-0
they could just as easily go into another slump and be out of the playoffs.

 

[TCTC]

They are bipolar

3-1-0 to start the season
2-6-1
5-0-0
1-3-1
7-0-1
2-4-3
5-0-0
they could just as easily go into another slump and be out of the playoffs.

I'm sure that's what it looks like for almost any team in the playoff race. In the end all waht counts is the overall record.

 

[Crescent Street]

They are bipolar

3-1-0 to start the season
2-6-1
5-0-0
1-3-1
7-0-1
2-4-3
5-0-0
they could just as easily go into another slump and be out of the playoffs.

I think that speaks more about the rest of the league, than it does the Flyers.

 

[Random Forest]

They were also playing reasonably well during early season slump. They were outshooting teams similar to how they have been lately, but just weren’t converting. The holiday slump was bad play though.

 

[GKJ]

Boston won most games ever in the regular season last year if iam not mistake. How that went?

Don’t know what that has to do with anything? Sources say if you win a lot of games, you’re a very good team.

The flyers NEED to sell. We have no real prospect depth outside of Bonk and Michov. You don't sustain winning teams by paying overachiever players. It's literally been the flyers plan for the last 3 decades.

This team is competitive right now. Which means with a few more pieces, they can build a sustained run of multiple years at going for the cup. You don't one and done, that's what bad teams do, and they bounce in an out of the playoffs for decades.

If you can get first round picks for Laughton and Walker, you snap their hands off. Walker is going to get paid this offseason. Laughton is a middle 6 complimentary piece that can be replaced from within.

If you can subtract from a team without causing any major holes, then you absolutely do that for a chance at sustained success. Give this young core another 5 first round draft talents in 2 years and watch them fly.

If they were truly worried about prospect depth, they would’ve traded Laughton at the draft. They chose not to sell him at what looks like was his highest value, which is what you do when you’ve committed to a rebuild. The time it takes to develop guys in the spots they’re going to draft them, it’s 4 or 5 years when you’re going to need to commit to who you have here already into their 30’s. They’re already not doing what you’re saying, and they’re not going to have 5 1st round picks the next 2 years, they may not even have 3.

 

[Curufinwe]

I get the culture and attitude thing but with Drysdale and (unfortunately) Ristolainen you have to move Walker. His value will never be higher. You have also Zamula, Andrae, Attard & Ginning waiting. Bonk is doing well on a stacked London Knights club but he still needs grow.

Team is doing great right now but the Flyers are at least 2 years and a 1C/top2 D away from contending. I'll take the wins and positive atmosphere but Briere needs to be sensible in his decisions. Amass more vauluable picks and take the team to the next level. There is not a single reason why Shaw can't teach the same things to the young guys in Lehigh Valley.

I could live with a Seeler resigning but would rather see him moved too.

Tbh, Attard and Ginning don't look like NHL players. Ginning is 24, and Attard will be 25 in two months. So with Risto untradeable without (and maybe even with) max retention, they need to move Walker or Seeler. Then next season:

Sanheim-Drysdale
York-Risto
Seeler-Zamula
Andrae

or

Sanheim-Drysdale
York-Walker
Zamula-Risto
Andrae

 

[deadhead]

People keep confusing "rebuilding" with "tanking."
Tanking you strip the house down to the foundation, rebuilding is you make major repairs.

Flyers have elite talent, fans just haven't recognized that b/c of the chaos of the last few years, TK and Farabee are playing at a high 1st line level, Frost, Tippett high 2nd rd, Hart/Ersson top ten, maybe top five goalie tandem.

Foerster, Brink have a lot of upside left, Cates played last night like last season. Poehling is a young 4C you can build that line around.

Drysdale, Sanheim, York, Zamula.

Oldest of that group is 27.

Barkey and Bonk are tearing up the OHL, Michkov the KHL, Zavragin the VHL, Rizzo the NCAA.
They have picks and prospects in the pipeline.

The only players over 27 playing major roles, Couts, Atkinson, Laughton, Walker, Seeler, Risto.

Walker and Seeler are on the block b/c they can't play 7 D-men indefinitely.
Laughton is on the block b/c he's not a center and they need a 3C.
I could see a deal where instead of picks they go for a center 25 and under.
But I can't see them going for a rental other than as a salary dump as part of a deal.

 

[mr figgles]

I'm sure that's what it looks like for almost any team in the playoff race. In the end all waht counts is the overall record.

Their overall record 5 games ago had them about to fall out of the playoffs. They’ll likely slump again and these teams behind them with games in hand will gain on them again.

 

[Hextallent63]

The success the team is having the season is a reflection on just how bad Chuck Fletcher was

 

[JojoTheWhale]

We don’t have to go nuts and start talking about the “elite” talent that they have. It’s patently absurd and only distracts you from the target.

Forget the dopey tanking Holy War from both sides. All progress made by the team because of players who will still be close to prime age when you’re ready to contend is good and meaningful.

 

[deadhead]

When you're in the top of the league in scoring, and you're 23 and 26, are you're going to get much better than that other than a handful of stars? Even if we had the 1st pick, you know the Flyers would end up with Power or Lafrenriere rather than Hughes or Bedard!

Farabee is 2nd 5x5 per 60, TK 22nd.
Tippett 47th, Couts 91st, Brink 139, Frost 141, Atkinson 152, Poehling 217, Laughton 242, Foerster 263.

I'd say Frost (especially since his talk with Torts), Brink and Foerster have substantial upside left.

Now it has to be sustained, but isn't the whole (they have to tank) idea is to get top level offensive players? If you already have two, and Michkov in the pipeline, maybe it's not as urgent as some would suggest.

They need another young top 6 center, but if I have Farabee and Michkov, I can get by with a "Couts" type between them, a physical 2 way center who isn't "elite" but is a reliable workhorse.

 

[BernieParent]

Real mysteries of the universe stuff why this team is surging the last couple weeks and improved on the year. It will debated for years to come.

"Broad News Bears: a Case Report of Unsustainably Significant Overperformance of a Professional Hockey Team Relative to Team Skill Level"

 

[JojoTheWhale]

When you're in the top of the league in scoring, and you're 23 and 26, are you're going to get much better than that other than a handful of stars? Even if we had the 1st pick, you know the Flyers would end up with Power or Lafrenriere rather than Hughes or Bedard!

Farabee is 2nd 5x5 per 60, TK 22nd.
Tippett 47th, Couts 91st, Brink 139, Frost 141, Atkinson 152, Poehling 217, Laughton 242, Foerster 263.

I'd say Frost (especially since his talk with Torts), Brink and Foerster have substantial upside left.

Now it has to be sustained, but isn't the whole (they have to tank) idea is to get top level offensive players? If you already have two, and Michkov in the pipeline, maybe it's not as urgent as some would suggest.

They need another young top 6 center, but if I have Farabee and Michkov, I can get by with a "Couts" type between them, a physical 2 way center who isn't "elite" but is a reliable workhorse.

Some of us were here for the great Rangers Vigneault debates and remember how you bent over backwards to explain how they didn’t have real talent even when they made the Finals, so you had to grade him on that scale. And now this roster has elite talent. I don’t want to have those discussions again. There's no reason to re-litigate the worst coach the Flyers have had in the last 3+ decades. We're all just happy he's gone.

I’m trying to explain to you why you get some of the responses that you do. Everything doesn’t have to be great. Good is ok. Hell, good would be a massive win for this franchise after the last decade.

(especially since his talk with Torts)

Deady. Brother. Just give the guy a compliment if you want to. It’ll be ok.

 

[dats81]

I must confess I have started watching again. Still don't think this is sustainable but whatever, they are fun right now.

 

[GKJ]

People keep confusing "rebuilding" with "tanking."
Tanking you strip the house down to the foundation, rebuilding is you make major repairs.

Flyers have elite talent, fans just haven't recognized that b/c of the chaos of the last few years, TK and Farabee are playing at a high 1st line level, Frost, Tippett high 2nd rd, Hart/Ersson top ten, maybe top five goalie tandem.

Foerster, Brink have a lot of upside left, Cates played last night like last season. Poehling is a young 4C you can build that line around.

Drysdale, Sanheim, York, Zamula.

Oldest of that group is 27.

Barkey and Bonk are tearing up the OHL, Michkov the KHL, Zavragin the VHL, Rizzo the NCAA.
They have picks and prospects in the pipeline.

The only players over 27 playing major roles, Couts, Atkinson, Laughton, Walker, Seeler, Risto.

Walker and Seeler are on the block b/c they can't play 7 D-men indefinitely.
Laughton is on the block b/c he's not a center and they need a 3C.
I could see a deal where instead of picks they go for a center 25 and under.
But I can't see them going for a rental other than as a salary dump as part of a deal.

Really weird to misuse common lexicon terms just to convince yourself you’re being contrarian. You also obviously never had any real discussion with a contractor.

You rebuild a house by rebuilding it. I said this last night.

Repairing is exactly that and is what they’re doing. They took sometime to repair things without any meaningful deconstruction of the structure. They called the exterminator to clear out the rats from the basement and attic, and now are deciding to save for the new car instead.

Tanking is tearing down the house and waiting for the property value to increase before making any more decisions.

 

[Embiid]

I must confess I have started watching again. Still don't think this is sustainable but whatever, they are fun right now.

Yeah they are playing with a lot of confidence and clearly on a strong run. The work and buy- in they are putting in is reaping rewards. It really doesn't take much to recede into an ebb from a flow

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Really weird to misuse common lexicon terms just to convince yourself you’re being contrarian. You also obviously never had any real discussion with a contractor.

You rebuild a house by rebuilding it. I said this last night.

Repairing is exactly that and is what they’re doing. They took sometime to repair things without any meaningful deconstruction of the structure. They called the exterminator to clear out the rats from the basement and attic, and now are deciding to save for the new car instead.

Tanking is tearing down the house and waiting for the property value to increase before making any more decisions.

A hockey team isn't a house, and it's possible to fix a team without getting rid of every single piece.

 

[GKJ]

A hockey team isn't a house, and it's possible to fix a team without getting rid of every single piece.

I responded to a second person who compared this to a house though. Where do you think the term ‘rebuild’ comes from?

 

[deadhead]

Really weird to misuse common lexicon terms just to convince yourself you’re being contrarian. You also obviously never had any real discussion with a contractor.

You rebuild a house by rebuilding it. I said this last night.

Repairing is exactly that and is what they’re doing. They took sometime to repair things without any meaningful deconstruction of the structure. They called the exterminator to clear out the rats from the basement and attic, and now are deciding to save for the new car instead.

Tanking is tearing down the house and waiting for the property value to increase before making any more decisions.

More like tearing out rotted wood and rebuilding the windows, taking the paneling off the basement, clearing out mold and refinishing it, putting in a new kitchen, knocking out some walls, etc. You're not starting from scratch, but you're making major modifications and repairs.

What you described is "reloading." Fix a few things to make the house more functional and comfortable.

I've owned three houses, fixed up a fourth (well, wrote the checks, my wife GC'd) - my wife comes from a construction plumber family.

 

[GKJ]

More like tearing out rotted wood and rebuilding the windows, taking the paneling off the basement, clearing out mold and refinishing it, putting in a new kitchen, knocking out some walls, etc. You're not starting from scratch, but you're making major modifications and repairs.

What you described is "reloading." Fix a few things to make the house more functional and comfortable.

I've owned three houses, fixed up a fourth (well, wrote the checks, my wife GC'd) - my wife comes from a construction plumber family.

Right so you’re the Dave Scott of that operation. Just do a good job writing checks and providing resources. You want to reload you replace the appliances and furniture and refurnish what you need to and pretend it’s a new house.

Rebuilding is exactly that. It’s building it again.

 

[Curufinwe]

The success the team is having the season is a reflection on just how bad Chuck Fletcher was

It's also a reflection on how much they missed Couturier.

 

[mr4tno]

I'm terrified to believe, but you have to give them a hat tip at some point.

They lack the high end power, but are playing well. Don't trade Hart or Ersson. That's a true strength of the team, even though it would help other areas. I know its probably smart, and a luxury but I'd love to keep both guys if at all possible.

Hart's next contract might prevent that.

at some point (probably in 1-2 years) they will have to trade one of them. Unless the NHL remove the salary cap!