3rd line center poll

[Empoleon8771]

Ask yourself this. Assuming the roster players do their part and walk in FA does that really matter at this point with it being a hindsight question? Would you do this:

Pens trade : 1st, 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths , Gustavsson

To FLA for

Bjugstad and McCann

Do you think that would be overpayment?

Probably not, no. A 1st for McCann is pretty close, which leaves a Gustavsson, a 2nd, a 3rd and 2 4ths for Bjugstad. That's a lot of quantity, but not much quality.

Ok say you lose Reaves Cole Wilson to FA after that year does that change things for you?

It doesn’t for me because that still mean that at the end of the day the you paid a 1st, 2nd, 3rd two 4ths and a top goalie prospect to be in 3rd line center turmoil for 2 years , Bjugstad and Mccann

That makes it worse. One big thing that would make me heavily consider changing my stance is the Penguins re-signing Cole and not signing Johnson.

Ok that’s fair, doesn’t change my mind at all anyways, so would you rather resign Bonino , keep Reaves, Cole for the playoff run even if to let them walk in FA, Wilson would be in the pressbox and spot duty, keep your goalie prospect and actually use your 1st, 2nd, 3rd and two 4ths. or use all the formentioned assests to acquire Sheahan and brassard then trade them for Bjugstad and McCann this year?

I would take the latter because you'd be a worse team by doing the former.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

In terms of trading picks for NHL players with term... Tomas Tatar was a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Travis Hamonic was a 1st and 2 2nds. That pick list for two NHL forwards who can play centre, one a guy who's paced above 40 points in 4 of his 6 NHL seasons and the other a young former first rounder with a lot of cost control left with a 32 point pace despite mainly playing 4th line this season, isn't all that outrageous when you consider that Hartman (a good comparable for McCann) went for a 1st last deadline and that Bjugstad is comparable with the guys I listed.

You could also have gotten Erik Karlsson So I don’t think that end of your argument really holds up.

As to the 2nd part, Bonino is in the same boat you describe, 30-40 pt player who wouldn’t cost you anything assest wise, considering they both have the same cap hit as well.

The younger 1st rounder player is a bonus for sure but in this case you could use your 1st or 2nd or 3rd, or 4th or 4th to draft and develope a player, or hell in this case you could trade your 1st for McCann and still have a 2nd, 3rd and two 4ths so at the end of the day your net positive.

So at the end of the day again in your mind Bjugstad and McCann are worth the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths, Gustavsson?

I’m not trying to be a dick here its just someone told me that in this scenario no one would go the route or resigning Bonino even given the hindsight of what it took to get Bjugstad and McCann.

This whole post is absurd but to think given hindsight you wouldn’t just resign bonino and save all those assests is crazy In my mind.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

Probably not, no. A 1st for McCann is pretty close, which leaves a Gustavsson, a 2nd, a 3rd and 2 4ths for Bjugstad. That's a lot of quantity, but not much quality.



That makes it worse. One big thing that would make me heavily consider changing my stance is the Penguins re-signing Cole and not signing Johnson.



I would take the latter because you'd be a worse team by doing the former.

I would say saving the 1st, 2nd ,3rd, two 4ths and Gustavsson would be enough but also keep in mind Tom Wilson ran rough shot over the pens, i know he did eventually get suspended for the end of the series and we got beat without and the Caps beat reaves team in the finals but I’m sure that changes the dynamic a bit in that series, even if it doesn’t change anything I’d still like to see Reaves beat the S**T out of Wilson in the series.

Cole resigning here was never gonna happen, just how it was, i wish we would but i bet we would have faired a bit better in the playoffs with Cole in the line up for the playoff run. Again impossible to predict

So you’re firmly in the camp of Bjugstad and McCann are worth a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths and Gustavsson camp. Opposed to resigning Bonino for “free”

 

[Andy99]

The whole point of this exercise is absurd....you have to assume that everything else remains the same if you sign Bonino...but the cap world doesn’t work that way...if you sign Bonino at $4.1 for four years, then it affects other decisions the team will have made...other players may or may not be signed, other players may be traded...maybe Schultz, Dumo, Jake can’t be re-signed...there will have been other repercussions on the roster...everything else doesn’t remain static...it’s why you can’t play this game

 

[BronzeSpruce]

The whole point of this exercise is absurd....you have to assume that everything else remains the same if you sign Bonino...but the cap world doesn’t work that way...if you sign Bonino at $4.1 for four years, then it affects other decisions the team will have made...other players may or may not be signed, other players may be traded...maybe Schultz, Dumo, Jake can’t be re-signed...there will have been other repercussions on the roster...everything else doesn’t remain static...it’s why you can’t play this game

It is absurd, i was told my someone that basically they wouldnt sign bonino knowing that the Sheahan and brassard experiments didnt work, and that we used all those asests to aquire thos players just to end up with Bjugstad which is the same cap hit at bonino would have been at 4.1

 

[OnMyOwn]

I’d take Bjugstad over Bonino at 4.1, anyway.

 

[Ogrezilla]

It is absurd, i was told my someone that basically they wouldnt sign bonino knowing that the Sheahan and brassard experiments didnt work, and that we used all those asests to aquire thos players just to end up with Bjugstad which is the same cap hit at bonino would have been at 4.1

he's also younger, potentially better, and not the only guy we got.

 

[pistolpete11]

The answer is of course it depends. It depends on what they would have used those assets for. It depends on what other signings may or may not have happened because of it. It depends on how Bjugstad and McCann end up...

But to play along....

Yeah, I'd rather have resigned Bonino. They have used a lot of assets and wasted time trying to find someone exactly like Bonino and to this point, we're still not sure we have found them.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

I’d take Bjugstad over Bonino at 4.1, anyway.

Not asking straight up.

Question here is would you take Bjugstad over Bonino, Gustavsson, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and two 4ths, plus playoffs with Reaves and Cole?

 

[Shady Machine]

I wanted to re-sign Bones at the time so I’ll stick with that. That said, I’m happy with what JR was able to do after the Brass trade didn’t work out.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

Not asking straight up.

Question here is would you take Bjugstad and McCann over Bonino, Gustavsson, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and two 4ths, plus playoffs with Reaves and Cole?

 

[BronzeSpruce]

I wanted to re-sign Bones at the time so I’ll stick with that. That said, I’m happy with what JR was able to do after the Brass trade didn’t work out.

I am as well, I don’t want that to be lost here, i like Bjugstad and McCann

I just posted in another forum how funny it was that we wouldn’t resign him at 4.1 mil because paying your 3rd line center 4.1 million was to much. Now after expending a lot of assests, we have settled on a 3rd line center with a 4.1 cap hit.

 

[Andy99]

It is absurd, i was told my someone that basically they wouldnt sign bonino knowing that the Sheahan and brassard experiments didnt work, and that we used all those asests to aquire thos players just to end up with Bjugstad which is the same cap hit at bonino would have been at 4.1

Even though the cap hit is the same, the rationale for not signing Bonino for the four years he wanted was 1) his age, going to be 30 and 2) JR didn’t think it would help the team return to the SCF to just keep all the same players who had played so many PO games and won cups (under the theory the same drive wouldn’t be there). He let every UFA go that summer. This reasoning was right....and Bjugstad is a fresh player, a lot younger, with none of the PO wear and hopefully he’ll be hungry for a cup....so it’s not the same thing even though the cap hit turned out to be the same

 

[Ogrezilla]

I am as well, I don’t want that to be lost here, i like Bjugstad and McCann

I just posted in another forum how funny it was that we wouldn’t resign him at 4.1 mil because paying your 3rd line center 4.1 million was to much. Now after expending a lot of assests, we have settled on a 3rd line center with a 4.1 cap hit.

Did we? Or did we trade for a 4.1 mil top 6 wing who can fill in at center while Malkin is hurt?

 

[BronzeSpruce]

Even though the cap hit is the same, the rationale for not signing Bonino for the four years he wanted was 1) his age, going to be 30 and 2) JR didn’t think it would help the team return to the SCF to just keep all the same players who had played so many PO games and won cups (under the theory the same drive wouldn’t be there). He let every UFA go that summer. This reasoning was right....and Bjugstad is a fresh player, a lot younger, with none of the PO wear and hopefully he’ll be hungry for a cup....so it’s not the same thing even though the cap hit turned out to be the same

This is the first rational response I’ve gotten with this absurd hypothetically hindsight question. But going back to my argument i have to ask if arriving at Bjugstad and McCann was worth everything we gave up to get here. Because Bonino is playing well in Nashville, better than Bjugstad and Mccann have ever played.

 

[Turin]

Let’s give Bjug and McCann more than two games first.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

Did we? Or did we trade for a 4.1 mil top 6 wing who can fill in at center while Malkin is hurt?

Remains to be seen. Hey if Bjugstad is the 2nd coming ill be happy, but in this instance with the price being a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths and goalie prosepct i would’ve picked someone else. Think Arizona would have taken that for Domi?

 

[cygnus47]

McCann is a bigger piece than Bjugstad. Check out his junior highlights. We got a 22 year old top 6+ potential centre under contract for two more years for 1.something million. Bonino was awesome when HBK was working in 2016, but that was the extent of his good play here. There's no way I re-sign Bonino for 4.1 even knowing Sheahan and Brassard don't work. Signing guys to crap contracts just because you have no better option at that moment is how you end up with a disastrous cap situation.

Re: the trade thing, it's probably an overpayment, but that's not how it works. We had those players for two years, you don't get guys interest-free. Well...except Oleksiak I guess...

 

[Ogrezilla]

Remains to be seen. Hey if Bjugstad is the 2nd coming ill be happy, but in this instance with the price being a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths and goalie prosepct i would’ve picked someone else. Think Arizona would have taken that for Domi?

no.

 

[Andy99]

This is the first rational response I’ve gotten with this absurd hypothetically hindsight question. But going back to my argument i have to ask if arriving at Bjugstad and McCann was worth everything we gave up to get here. Because Bonino is playing well in Nashville, better than Bjugstad and Mccann have ever played.

And again, my “answer” is that your question cannot be answered (and Bonino playing well there this year cannot be compared to how he would have played here, plus he’s been playing a lot of 2C there because Turris has been injured)...there would be so many repercussions of signing him on the roster that this wouldn’t be the same team...that hypothetical Pens team last year may not even have made the POs (btw Bonino played terribly last year coming off injury)...

 

[Peat]

You could also have gotten Erik Karlsson So I don’t think that end of your argument really holds up.

You couldn't have got Karlsson because Dorion was desperate to deal out west and in any case, that one off crazy special case doesn't change that its a fair deal by most lights.

As to the 2nd part, Bonino is in the same boat you describe, 30-40 pt player who wouldn’t cost you anything assest wise, considering they both have the same cap hit as well.

The younger 1st rounder player is a bonus for sure but in this case you could use your 1st or 2nd or 3rd, or 4th or 4th to draft and develope a player, or hell in this case you could trade your 1st for McCann and still have a 2nd, 3rd and two 4ths so at the end of the day your net positive.

So at the end of the day again in your mind Bjugstad and McCann are worth the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths, Gustavsson?

Its roughly fair trade value. I'll wait and see on how they do here before before saying whether I like the trade, but its fair value.

I’m not trying to be a dick here its just someone told me that in this scenario no one would go the route or resigning Bonino even given the hindsight of what it took to get Bjugstad and McCann.

This whole post is absurd but to think given hindsight you wouldn’t just resign bonino and save all those assests is crazy In my mind.

I would have rather let Bonino walk, trust Sheahan, and spend the assets on something else.

If it absolutely has to be one or the other... I don't know. We can judge how not keeping Bonino has gone to date, but we don't know the ending. If Bjugstad and McCann hit their ceilings here, total win, totally worth it. And we can't judge how Bonino would have gone, but there's a possibility it would have been not great and we'd still be searching for options. He wasn't great for Nashville last season (boxcars look amazing this season though), I wasn't happy with him a lot of his time here as 3C... maybe it wouldn't have worked here, maybe we'd have traded him last season. And I don't know what we'd have used the assets on either. I can definitely see some opportunities that came up where maybe they'd have made a difference and could have been huge (McDonagh), but we don't know for sure.

I'd probably lean towards Bonino, but I don't like either option.

 

[Common Sense]

Write in vote for re-signing Marcel Goc

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Re-sign Bonino is the option I went with.

I'm assuming he'd be one of the ones traded once the team needed a shake up.

I don't think he'd still be here. But suffering through Rowney, McKegg, Sheahan (this season), and Brassard was just too much.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

Let’s give Bjug and McCann more than two games first.

McCann is a bigger piece than Bjugstad. Check out his junior highlights. We got a 22 year old top 6+ potential centre under contract for two more years for 1.something million. Bonino was awesome when HBK was working in 2016, but that was the extent of his good play here. There's no way I re-sign Bonino for 4.1 even knowing Sheahan and Brassard don't work. Signing guys to crap contracts just because you have no better option at that moment is how you end up with a disastrous cap situation.

Re: the trade thing, it's probably an overpayment, but that's not how it works. We had those players for two years, you don't get guys interest-free. Well...except Oleksiak I guess...

I hear ya, but again it boils down to are they worth all the assests given up to end at them?

Again you have to ask yourself in this scenario

Bjugstad, Mccann> Bonino, Reaves, Cole, Wilson, Gustavsson, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths

It’s an absurd question but someone told me in hindsight not one fan would just resign bonino and save the assests

 

[HuskerTornado]

Write in vote for re-signing Marcel Goc

can we get Zigomanis back too?