3rd line center poll

[Gurglesons]

I know what happens if we sign Bonino, we save a ton of assets and time.

This is the frustrating part and the big argument was “we don’t have the cap to spend 4 mil on a 3C.”

That being said Rutherford was trying to make sure he didn’t tie up cap in cup winners. Issue was he tied up cap in even worse role players rather than building on youth. It seems through TB, Pettersson and McCann, he’s realizing what actually won us those cups.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

and potentially have a worse team. For sure an older team.

We should move Malkin and see if we can get a 1st , 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths and Gustavsson. Malkin is over the hill

 

[Ogrezilla]

We should move Malkin and see if we can get a 1st , 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths and Gustavsson. Malkin is over the hill

yeah because Malkin fits exactly what I said about potentially being a worse team. Bonino is pretty close to the same level.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

I know what happens if we sign Bonino, we save a ton of assets and time.

I would take the 26 year old Bjugstad and the 22 year old McCann than 30 year old Bonino. Yes even with the assets. Team is younger and better with those players. It was time to move on on that is what makes Rutherford so much better than Shero who never knew when it is time to move on.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

This is the frustrating part and the big argument was “we don’t have the cap to spend 4 mil on a 3C.”

That being said Rutherford was trying to make sure he didn’t tie up cap in cup winners. Issue was he tied up cap in even worse role players rather than building on youth. It seems through TB, Pettersson and McCann, he’s realizing what actually won us those cups.

Pearson might be the next mistake he needs to correcr

 

[Gurglesons]

I would take the 26 year old Bjugstad and the 22 year old McCann than 30 year old Bonino. Yes even with the assets. Team is younger and better with those players. It was time to move on on that is what makes Rutherford so much better than Shero who never knew when it is time to move on.

Yeah, but imagine if we had Bonino and acquired McDonagh and our defense was something like..

Dumo - Letang
McDonagh - Schultz
Cole - Oleksiak

Heading into the playoffs last year.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pearson might be the next mistake he needs to correcr

Pearson is basically Hagelin except he scores goals and the coach doesn’t use him on the PK. (Even though LA used him.)

Really don’t understand why he is a whipping boy.

 

[Ugene Magic]

This is the frustrating part and the big argument was “we don’t have the cap to spend 4 mil on a 3C.”

That being said Rutherford was trying to make sure he didn’t tie up cap in cup winners. Issue was he tied up cap in even worse role players rather than building on youth. It seems through TB, Pettersson and McCann, he’s realizing what actually won us those cups.

The Pens could keep key guys and bring up guys they made real progress by adding them in the first place.

They got freebies in ZAR, Johnson and Riikola to go along with whom they drafted.

There was a way for them, they just seem to veer off the path of their success.

I seriously ask if they were really all in for a 3-peat. What they did certainly says otherwise.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah, but imagine if we had Bonino and acquired McDonagh and our defense was something like..

Dumo - Letang
McDonagh - Schultz
Cole - Oleksiak

Heading into the playoffs last year.

That's why this is impossible. You can't actually answer this question without knowing those other "what if's"

 

[Gurglesons]

That's why this is impossible. You can't actually answer this question without knowing those other "what if's"

I don’t think it is impossible. We’ve spent nearly 18 months trying to correct letting Bonino walking and are on try 3.

For being such a replaceable player it is funny that we can’t seem to replace him. Hopefully, McCann is the long term solution there.

 

[Peat]

But they could have still did both, just last season saw nothing done worth while. They actually stripped themselves from competing at all.

We didn't compete last season because half of our top end forwards got injured at the wrong moment and because our 1D and goaltender had bad seasons peaking in a really bad series against Washington, for largely freak reasons.

The tampering around the edges with the depth had little to do with it imo.

It would’ve also given the cap structure to not afford signings like Hunwick and JJ.

The best argument for resigning Bones I've seen yet!

Yeah, but imagine if we had Bonino and acquired McDonagh and our defense was something like..

Dumo - Letang
McDonagh - Schultz
Cole - Oleksiak

Heading into the playoffs last year.

The second best reason. Although we don't know if the extra assets available would have resulted in NYR trading him to us instead of Tampa.

And we could have still just got Sheahan for half the cap hit and traded for McDonagh rather than Brassard. Some might say Sheahan didn't perform at a level to justify that but there's not much proof Bonino would have either.

 

[Gurglesons]

We didn't compete last season because half of our top end forwards got injured at the wrong moment and because our 1D and goaltender had bad seasons peaking in a really bad series against Washington, for largely freak reasons.

The tampering around the edges with the depth had little to do with it imo.



The best argument for resigning Bones I've seen yet!



The second best reason. Although we don't know if the extra assets available would have resulted in NYR trading him to us instead of Tampa.

And we could have still just got Sheahan for half the cap hit and traded for McDonagh rather than Brassard. Some might say Sheahan didn't perform at a level to justify that but there's not much proof Bonino would have either.

Regular season you have an argument. In the playoffs he would’ve provided a step up it healthy. Then again, last year if Brassard is healthy I think we beat the Caps.

 

[Ugene Magic]

We didn't compete last season because half of our top end forwards got injured at the wrong moment and because our 1D and goaltender had bad seasons peaking in a really bad series against Washington, for largely freak reasons.

The tampering around the edges with the depth had little to do with it imo.

They had no depth, they were using their depth pieces as starters. Injuries happen, they also happen both years they won the cup, but due to their depth they still won.

 

[Gurglesons]

They had no depth, they were using their depth pieces as starters. Injuries happen, they also happen both years they won the cup, but due to their depth they still won.

At no time in the 15-16 or 16-17 runs was our entire second line and 3C injured.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

We should move Malkin and see if we can get a 1st , 2nd, 3rd, two 4ths and Gustavsson. Malkin is over the hill

Ok, now we are getting ridiculous. This is almost worthy of putting you on ignore!

 

[Ugene Magic]

At no time in the 15-16 or 16-17 runs was our entire second line and 3C injured.

No, just Maatta, Daley and Fleury recovering from a concussion. There were probably other injuries never talked about.

They had depth out the wazoo.

2016/17 saw plenty and that depth still was there.

The point is, there wouldn't be a problem had they made key signings here. It's not as if they didn't have a 3c playing injured before. Bonino blocking many shots looking like he'd be done.

Problem is they had no depth, they could score, but they couldn't defend worth a damn.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Bottom line is we can’t go back in time but the best thing about Rutherford compared to Shero is he knows when to move on and make changes. Shero signed players he should of moved on from and made the team one of the oldest and slowest teams around the core. Rutherford takes over and in a years time turns that old slow team around the core to a team much younger and the fastest team in the league.

This season Rutherford also started turning the team younger by trading for 4 players 26, 26, 22, and 22 for 3 UFA’s all older than those players and a RFA that wasn’t fitting in and playing 4th line duty. Also team adds other young players like Aston-Reese 24, Blueger 24, Riikola 25, and Simon 24. This is the way to go then signing vets like Bonino 30 or any of those other players talked about like Daley 35, Cole 29 and Reaves 32, and Hagelin 30.

This whole premise is a joke though. So your team trades for a rental and gives up a 1st and a top prospect and you don’t win the Cup. Hindsight that was a bad trade. Doing hindsight you can always find something to change. Monday morning quarterbacking is worthless. The great thing about Rutherford he hasn’t used 1st round picks or good prospects on rentals like Shero did. Rutherford uses them for players with term and moves on from those players in other deals if they don’t work out. Rutherford’s asset management has been top notch and that is why we have won 2 Cups and currently built a pretty young group around our core. Considering every player is under team control for next season besides Cullen and Rhuwedel Rutherford has been a genius of managing this team.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, just Maatta, Daley and Fleury recovering from a concussion. There were probably other injuries never talked about.

They had depth out the wazoo.

2016/17 saw plenty and that depth still was there.

The point is, there wouldn't be a problem had they made key signings here. It's not as if they didn't have a 3c playing injured before. Bonino blocking many shots looking like he'd be done.

Problem is they had no depth, they could score, but they couldn't defend worth a damn.

“Behind” Fleury we had Murray. Maatta missed a game. Behind him and Daley we had Pouliot and Schultz.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

I don’t think it is impossible. We’ve spent nearly 18 months trying to correct letting Bonino walking and are on try 3.

For being such a replaceable player it is funny that we can’t seem to replace him. Hopefully, McCann is the long term solution there.

I think this trade gives you two players to try and replace Bonino with. McCann has been Panthers 7th leading scoring forward past two seasons which of course doing the math made him the best 3rd line player on the team this year and last. Also Bjugstad can be the answer at 3C also if he proves to work well with Kessel. Bjugstad’s best season was at Center when he was 22 and lead the Panthers in goals with 24 and was 3rd in points and 2nd in PPG. So I think he can also be the Bonino answer. Honestly I don’t know if Bonino would of been the Bonino answer either. His first year with Kessel was brilliant in the playoffs but the next season the HBK did not work. Bonino still was a decent 3C but not what Rutherford wanted which was a 3C that could provide another top scoring line like HBK did. Hopefully we have the fix now and we will know in June. All I know is I rather have the 26 year old Bjugstad and 22 year old McCann than the 30 year old Bonino.

 

[Empoleon8771]

For as many people are criticizing the idea, I'm confused why the votes in this are 22-1

I really don't get why these votes aren't spread out more even. Are people just overrating the picks or making up scenarios to pick the first option? I also think the poll choices are worded specifically to skew results towards the Bonino vote, the options should just be "re-sign Bonino and make no trades" or "do what the Penguins did". Including stuff like keeping Cole (who wasn't going to re-sign with the team) and mentioning the 1st is dishonest wording IMO.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Pearson is basically Hagelin except he scores goals and the coach doesn’t use him on the PK. (Even though LA used him.)

Really don’t understand why he is a whipping boy.

I actually like him myself. Some of his power moves like when he outmuscled Doughty when he scored against Kings was very impressive. He has size, speed, and a good shot and defensively responsible. All things that can be used with the right line mates. Averaged 40 points a year over the past 3 years and only 26 so he should still have something left.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

For as many people are criticizing the idea, I'm confused why the votes in this are 22-1

I really don't get why these votes aren't spread out more even. Are people just overrating the picks or making up scenarios to pick the first option? I also think the poll choices are worded specifically to skew results towards the Bonino vote, the options should just be "re-sign Bonino and make no trades" or "do what the Penguins did". Including stuff like keeping Cole (who wasn't going to re-sign with the team) and mentioning the 1st is dishonest wording IMO.

Because how the poll is worded and options given. When people actually discuss it then the poor logic of the poll question and choices given are exposed. I can make the same poll like this.

Should Rutherford have resigned Bonino 30, Daley 35, Cole 29, Reaves 32, Hagelin 30 for long term contracts of 3-5 years?

A. Yes, keep the vets like Shero did with resigning Kunitz, Dupuis, and Scuderi.

B. No time to get younger and find a better match for Kessel on the 3rd line with Bjugstad 26, McCann 22, Pearson 26, Pettersson 22, Riikola 25, Blueger 24.

See how your polling question and answer choices can influence the poll. Once the discussion started it was down hill from that point on.

 

[Peat]

Regular season you have an argument. In the playoffs he would’ve provided a step up it healthy. Then again, last year if Brassard is healthy I think we beat the Caps.

Hmm, yeah, I'd give that a fair probability - but probably not to the point of saving us.

They had no depth, they were using their depth pieces as starters. Injuries happen, they also happen both years they won the cup, but due to their depth they still won.

Oh, I thought you mean depth as in bottom 6/bottom pairing, not 13th-14th forwards and 7th-8th dmen.

Regardless, the identity of those players isn't meaningful when you have major collapses of form from your best players, largely due to injuries. Not unless you've fluked out and your depth pieces are MAF/Murray level for a lucky run or two. And we never had that level of problem at any point in the Cup Runs.

And tbh, when the injured players are mainly still playing through the injuries, the identity of the 14th/15th forwards etc.etc. is particularly meaningless as they'd never hit the ice anyway.

Murray, Letang, Kessel, Malkin, Brassard. That's why we bombed out of the cup.

For as many people are criticizing the idea, I'm confused why the votes in this are 22-1

I really don't get why these votes aren't spread out more even. Are people just overrating the picks or making up scenarios to pick the first option? I also think the poll choices are worded specifically to skew results towards the Bonino vote, the options should just be "re-sign Bonino and make no trades" or "do what the Penguins did". Including stuff like keeping Cole (who wasn't going to re-sign with the team) and mentioning the 1st is dishonest wording IMO.

I haven't voted because I think its a really bad option. I guess I might be a bit surprised that the OP hasn't had more vocal support from those voters though

 

[EightyOne]

Both options in poll sucked lol

It hurt mentally and physically to select.

 

[BronzeSpruce]

Pearson is basically Hagelin except he scores goals and the coach doesn’t use him on the PK. (Even though LA used him.)

Really don’t understand why he is a whipping boy.

Because he makes to much and signed to long for what he’s bringing.