Post-Game Talk: #34 | FLYERS (A) vs. Sabres (H) | Monday, Mar. 29, 2021 | Flyers win 4-3 OT

[TCTC]

Myers’ lack of shooting accuracy has become comical. Particularly tonight, he couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. Even Jones finally brought it up at one point, that’s how bad it was.

There’s just zero finesse or touch to his game. Repeatedly blasts shots wide. Repeatedly wings pucks around the boards either into traffic or for needless icings.

Also, Couturier is quite clearly hurt. Perhaps an aggravation of his rib issue, perhaps his back.

I will be surprised if he ever scores more than 5 goals in a season. And not for lack of trying. He has almost twice as many shots on goal as Braun.
I wonder if the hype got to his head and he's trying to be a player he just can't be.

 

[MorgantiDrinksBlood]

So Sabres have 2 points in last 17 games. Two OT/SO points. Both against Flyers... This team is just... sad.

Sad is an understatement we’re at the point of a pathetic joke now I believe.

 

[TCTC]

Also, kudos to Jim Jackson for asking Giroux, in the post game interview, if he or any of the players said anything in the locker room during the 2nd intermission. It was an excellent question.

And the answer — in which G said he didn’t, but Braun & Laughton did — was eye-opening.

1. As much as I’ve not wanted to buy into it over the years, signs really do point to this team having a locker-room leadership void. We saw how much Pronger’s locker room presence meant. We know this team has been plagued by slow starts throughout the Giroux captaincy, despite numerous coaches. And now we hear that Braun & Laughton were the two players to step up vocally, of all people, when they needed a kick in the ass. They aren’t even alternate captains!

2. You can really see they probably sorely miss Niskanen’s leadership & locker room presence almost as much as his defensive play.

Giroux certainly is a good lead-by-example type (as he showed in the 3rd & OT, & many times throughout his career), but you need vocal leaders, as well. I probably have been wrong in the past to downplay leadership as an issue for the Flyers.

Jackson seemed a bit taken aback by Giroux’s answer in his post-interview outtro, & when the post-game crew interviewed Jackson, it was the first thing he brought up. It’s pretty clear his eyes were opened by the answer, too.

Interesting stuff.

It would've been huge for this team to add a guy like Pietrangelo.

I think Giroux is a fine captain, but maybe this leadership group has too many lead by example type of players. Couturier isn't the most vocal player and I can't see Provorov giving a big speech in the locker room either. Voracek and Hayes talk a lot, but their personalities don't scream natural leader to me.
It definitely shouldn't have to be Laughton and Braun to step up in the locker room.

 

[David St Hubbins]

That made me think of "Mach" from Spinal Tap.

that song title applies so,well,to this coaching staff

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Also, kudos to Jim Jackson for asking Giroux, in the post game interview, if he or any of the players said anything in the locker room during the 2nd intermission. It was an excellent question.

And the answer — in which G said he didn’t, but Braun & Laughton did — was eye-opening.

1. As much as I’ve not wanted to buy into it over the years, signs really do point to this team having a locker-room leadership void. We saw how much Pronger’s locker room presence meant. We know this team has been plagued by slow starts throughout the Giroux captaincy, despite numerous coaches. And now we hear that Braun & Laughton were the two players to step up vocally, of all people, when they needed a kick in the ass. They aren’t even alternate captains!

2. You can really see they probably sorely miss Niskanen’s leadership & locker room presence almost as much as his defensive play.

Giroux certainly is a good lead-by-example type (as he showed in the 3rd & OT, & many times throughout his career), but you need vocal leaders, as well. I probably have been wrong in the past to downplay leadership as an issue for the Flyers.

Jackson seemed a bit taken aback by Giroux’s answer in his post-interview outtro, & when the post-game crew interviewed Jackson, it was the first thing he brought up. It’s pretty clear his eyes were opened by the answer, too.

Interesting stuff.

yeah pls let us all blame Giroux and the lack of leadership
blame Ghost for everything else and make Hart the next Bobrovsky.

Trade them all 3 to one team and i can be a fan of this team. They will carry this team to the stanley cup and i can enjoy my life without reading SHIT LIKE THIS!

THX

 

[Tripod]

It's weird to me to see some of the bitching.

I have had a coach not come in the room during intermission before. And it came after him blasting us in the 1st intermission and we still played like garbage in the 2nd.

You sit, and wait to get blasted again. But then you realize, he isn't coming in. So what happens is instead of it being coach vs players, the players start talking how the team is shit. You put all the focus on each other.

And as we heard, it was Laughton and Braun who emerged as the vocal ones. Not who I would have expected, but good for them.

As for the benching of Farabee....AV has played him lots DESPITE certain defensive mistakes. This was a message being sent because AV expects more.

It was clear he was shortening the bench to 3 lines and as GB said, he put the vet core on the top 2 lines then went with the line that had been playing well thru the game.

And it worked. Some will never give AV any credit for his part in the win or the tactics he used. But they worked. Bitching about TOI when a coach shortens the bench for a whole period is pointless.

And now next game, the benched will have a chance to redeem themselves. Personally I would leave the top 2 lines the same and have Farabee with Laughton because they played well together when Couts was out hurt.

Let Lindblom Patrick and NAK play together.

 

[Appleyard]

Could be. I did think of that possibility, & I hope it’s the case.

However, with how flat this team has been for years at starts of seasons, & at the beginnings of important games, I’m inclined to begin lending more credence to the idea of a potential void in vocal leadership.

It is quite plausible, though, that G just didn’t want to take public credit for the 3rd period turnaround & gave it to his teammates.

I think as well it is likely just natural group dynamics.

In any team sport different people will speak up... and some guys are very vocal at different times despite no formal "leadership" position.

I have been in a locker-room during a national university cup semi-final where we were tied at half time and our back-up goalie who did not play in the game got up and was very vocal. It was the only freaking time we heard his Northern Irish twangs that season when he was not in the bar... but it "worked".

On a worse "team" someone would have told him to pipe down (our next captain for sure would have, which was partially why he was not a great captain...), sit down and shut up as who the f*** was he. But we all knew despite his lack of ability he cared so much, and I guess to a degree it helped.


Plus... guys like Yzerman and Beliveau are considered two of the greatest captains ever and by all accounts were rarely vocal.


Captaincy is also over-rated in almost every sport that is not cricket. (where you are literally THE coach when the game is being played and decide on tactics for large portions of the game.) It for sure matters, but not to the degree than some take it to.

 

[deadhead]

giroux said a lot that pronger was more vocal than richards during the cup run. Some captians lead by example on the ice and other players are more vocal (like hayes). Nothing wrong with that...

also on your farabeee point where he got the short end of the stick. I think AV blamed him for that montour goal. Montour just walked right in but hayes did the exact same f***ing thing farabee did but he still gets ice time like no other. Be consistent it what most people want as well, just my observations

The wingers have the D-men, so you're comparing apples and oranges, kinda like blaming the CB when the safety was supposed to provide deep help. Farabee blew his assignment, thing with AV is he'll make his point, then put the player back out there.

AV has to be frustrated with this team, I think Jones pointed out that they had stressed getting the puck on net and bodies on net pre-game, so what do we see for two periods, over passing, a reluctance to shoot and no one going to the net. If I'm playing the Flyers, I tell my defensemen to play the passing lanes and let them shoot - which is what we see. This has been going on for years, and I'm starting to think some players are coach resistant, either dumb or stubborn.

 

[flyersnorth]

They won, but does it matter? Lol I'm so conflicted!

We get treated to the same 40 minutes of garbage hockey almost every single game.

This is such an unlikeable team for me right now. They broke my spirit with the second straight thrashing from the Rags. They've looked AHL-level for an entire month. Playoffs are a major longshot.

So now they've won two in a row ... and I just don't care.

Thanks, Flyers!

 

[deadhead]

The goaltending remains the primary issue.

Elliott had some nice saves the 1st period, then he lets in 2 goals that most goalie stop in their sleep.
So what should have been a 1-0 deficit by a team that came out flat became a 3-0 deficit that required a heroic 3rd period.
The good thing is they didn't go belly up after he helped them dig a deep hole.

Try a flip side analysis - think about how many games the Flyers would have won if they could have flipped the goalies.
We've seen since the COVID break the Flyers bombard some goalies, and only get a couple goals out of a dozen solid scoring chances.

 

[Appleyard]

The goaltending remains the primary issue.

Elliott had some nice saves the 1st period, then he lets in 2 goals that most goalie stop in their sleep.
So what should have been a 1-0 deficit by a team that came out flat became a 3-0 deficit that required a heroic 3rd period.
The good thing is they didn't go belly up after he helped them dig a deep hole.

Try a flip side analysis - think about how many games the Flyers would have won if they could have flipped the goalies.
We've seen since the COVID break the Flyers bombard some goalies, and only get a couple goals out of a dozen solid scoring chances.

Yeh.

Goalies and PK have been like 90% of the problems in March.

This is one of the worst months of team goaltending in league history, when you look at ExGF (which is not perfect, but tracks amazingly vs goals over decent spans!) especially it is kind of comical how many goals it is "likely" have been fault of netminding.

AV has obviously got his warts. But he was not wrong a while back when he said about "process" being better. At 5v5 in March Flyers have generally outplayed opponents... that must be extremely frustrating for him that losing more than ever despite team being more on "same page" than first 15 games or so.

Ofc, still some ridiculous breakdowns and bad games. But if they had got bang average net-minding through March they would be in a play-off spot now I am certain.

 

[Appleyard]

To show that, at 5v5:

January:
44.07% Corsi, 45.05% ExGF
52.27% GF

February:
49.50% Corsi, 49.41% ExGF
58.82% GF

March:
54.48% Corsi, 50.66% ExGF
32.50% GF

Actually absurd.

 

[bennysflyers16]

I’m guessing the posters here that approve benching Farabee for Raffl and NAK are the same group that love the Thompson and Grant trades.

You can’t defend your boy AV on this , it is beyond moronic. If you think his coaching was the catalyst for the comeback, you may need to seek help.

 

[VladDrag]

But it has to be one of the wingers in that situation , there is no one else to blame.

To me, there's a lot wrong during that play. It stems from a poor breakout, and bad decision from Lindblom originally.

During the board battle, Ghost is in no man's land trying to get involved in the board battle. He needed to push to more to the middle of the ice (maybe around the faceoff circle). If he's there, Morin can push a bit more to the high slot (this is important later). Jake is at the top of the right boards (and he's a right winger). He's defending the pass to the point man. He's probably not in the right position, but he's also not out to lunch, either... He's doing what he thinks he needs to do.

Once the puck gets to Jokiharju, Morin attempts to defend Lazar who is going to the net. If he was more in the high slot, he could have rotated to Jokiharju, and Ghost could have defended the pass.

Yes, Jake should have been in a better spot, but hockey is about a 5-man unit, and very clearly, there were a lot of mistakes during this play....Including that subpar goaltending from Elliot.

 

[deadhead]

I’m guessing the posters here that approve benching Farabee for Raffl and NAK are the same group that love the Thompson and Grant trades.

You can’t defend your boy AV on this , it is beyond moronic. If you think his coaching was the catalyst for the comeback, you may need to seek help.

People assume these moves are impulsive, but then you get stories about the coaches stressing things and players go out and ignore what they've been told on the ice. Farabee not only blew a defensive assignment, he also made a bad pass when he had an open shot. AV was both trying desperately to win the game, but also send his young players a message about both mental mistakes and playing harder (win some damn board battles!). Young players have a tendency to "drift" over the course of a season - and there is no "bad cop" in the locker room. So AV benches guys for a game or a period, to give them a wake up call.

There are things I see that I doubt are due to coaching, over passing for example, or leaving too early on a change of possession in the D-zone - when you see TK at the opposing blue line when the D-man is still in the D-zone, you think that was coached? For one thing, what's he going to do with a stretch pass when he has to stop and lose his momentum to keep from going offsides? Some of these are mental errors, some of these are due to pressing, trying to do too much and not sticking to your assignment.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It's weird to me to see some of the bitching.

I have had a coach not come in the room during intermission before. And it came after him blasting us in the 1st intermission and we still played like garbage in the 2nd.

You sit, and wait to get blasted again. But then you realize, he isn't coming in. So what happens is instead of it being coach vs players, the players start talking how the team is shit. You put all the focus on each other.

And as we heard, it was Laughton and Braun who emerged as the vocal ones. Not who I would have expected, but good for them.

As for the benching of Farabee....AV has played him lots DESPITE certain defensive mistakes. This was a message being sent because AV expects more.

It was clear he was shortening the bench to 3 lines and as GB said, he put the vet core on the top 2 lines then went with the line that had been playing well thru the game.

And it worked. Some will never give AV any credit for his part in the win or the tactics he used. But they worked. Bitching about TOI when a coach shortens the bench for a whole period is pointless.

And now next game, the benched will have a chance to redeem themselves. Personally I would leave the top 2 lines the same and have Farabee with Laughton because they played well together when Couts was out hurt.

Let Lindblom Patrick and NAK play together.

Spot on.

 

[dragonoffrost]

I think people are reading a little too much into the “ Braun and Laughton vocal leaders” crap. Voracek is a vocal guy and tells it like it is, Giroux had spoken up in the past and called out the team play. Sometimes, when someone other than the usual suspects speak up, it actually speaks volumes. To me G mentioning Braun and Laughton speaking up was just giving credit to 2 guys that don’t usually speak up I would think. Let’s not turn this into a Giroux doesn’t lead and he’s not a good leader narrative. Remember, Giroux himself gave the credit to Laughton and Braun. Would a true leader or captain do that?

Laughton has been mentioned as being vocal before in the locker room when things go sideways. I think he's kinda taken the Simmonds bad cop role.

 

[Philly Fanatik]

The goaltending remains the primary issue.

Elliott had some nice saves the 1st period, then he lets in 2 goals that most goalie stop in their sleep.
So what should have been a 1-0 deficit by a team that came out flat became a 3-0 deficit that required a heroic 3rd period.
The good thing is they didn't go belly up after he helped them dig a deep hole.

Try a flip side analysis - think about how many games the Flyers would have won if they could have flipped the goalies.
We've seen since the COVID break the Flyers bombard some goalies, and only get a couple goals out of a dozen solid scoring chances.

...the main reason for the Flyers downfall in my opinion are the defensemen. Vladislav Tretiak would be swiss cheese if he played behind these guys!

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Laughton has been mentioned as being vocal before in the locker room when things go sideways. I think he's kinda taken the Simmonds bad cop role.

Laughton was captain in Oshawa in the OHL, and captained Canada's WJC team even though he played a 4th line role. He was known for leadership qualities in his junior career, and now that he is a veteran NHLer it doesn't surprise me that he'd be one to step up into a leadership role.

 

[deadhead]

...the main reason for the Flyers downfall in my opinion are the defensemen. Vladislav Tretiak would be swiss cheese if he played behind these guys!

xGA and HDCA/60 (how many tough saves) are imperfect proxies, but they give a sense whether Flyer goalies are unduly burdened.
Compare to the league, Flyers are actually a tad above average, and since the COVID break, close to the top third.

Even on the PK, which has been bad, Flyers aren't at the bottom.

Just look at what opposing goalies do when we pepper them with shots, many close in.

Defensive mistakes haven't help, but goalies are paid to erase those mistakes.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They played 40 minutes of confused, aimless, structureless hockey. The coach stepped away, the players took over, and then they won.

This does not strike as a glowing review of an incompetent staff, and it's also not a stunt that tends to be repeatable.

 

[Beef Invictus]

On the positive note, they're still doing the entry thing reminiscent of Bruce's Caps and that is a good, positive change. Set up a solid chance by Giroux from Hayes, and by Hayes standards it was lightning quick puck movement on entry.

 

[mr4tno]

Last night was the worst possible scenario - they played like absolute horseshit and still won. This team is more than 1 player away and I fear the future will be gutted in the next couple of weeks....

 

[TB87]

it’s hard to be this wrong constantly but this guy does it with aplomb.

 

[TCTC]

Laughton was captain in Oshawa in the OHL, and captained Canada's WJC team even though he played a 4th line role. He was known for leadership qualities in his junior career, and now that he is a veteran NHLer it doesn't surprise me that he'd be one to step up into a leadership role.

That's probably where the Mike Richards comparisons came from.

If he signs a new contract, I can see him wear an A at some point.