GDT: #32: Sharks @ Senators, 4:30PM Pacific, CSN-CA

[TomasHertlsRooster]

The one positive to take from this game is that Thornton's back. If he keeps playing this way, our record is going to start looking a lot better.

We do need another offensive defenseman, though.

Dillon-Burns
Vlasic-Braun
Martin-New offensive RD

This is what we need to see. Depending on how Dillon and Martin perform, maybe switch them, but Dillon has actually looked pretty good lately.

 

[Alwalys]

I can count the number of lost puck races on one hand, how the **** did this game end up like this. ****ing pissed.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

More often than not? Jones is 14-10-1 this season and Stalock is 2-5-0. Jones has allowed 3+ goals in 38% of his starts while Stalock has allowed 3+ in 83% of his starts. A league average backup would be somewhere in between that, giving us a better chance to win on any given night. I'm not expecting Stalock to win these types of games, but limiting a team to less than three goals more often is what I expect a backup goalie to provide.

I get it, the defense sucks. Wilson will have to do something by the TDL if we are going to make a run this year. The return of one of the better defensive forwards in the league (Couture) may help, but I'd like to add another piece to stabilize the second or third pair.

You're under the assumption with that response that the defense is that sucky all the time. They're not. When they are, Jones still loses those games more often than not.

There is really no evidence to support that a 'league average backup' is somewhere in the middle of that. What will give the team a better chance to win is the defense stepping up their game and preventing goals against and chances against because they're simply not getting the job done 5 on 5 and it's more pronounced when Stalock is in net.

 

[Bleedred]

I can count the number of lost puck races on one hand, how the **** did this game end up like this. ****ing pissed.

It's the Senators. That last goal they scored tonight was a prime example of how they score. They're more opportunistic than anything and have little structure or system. I mean, they're not like Colorado bad or anything. Or Toronto under Carlyle.

That's why they get beat up on pretty easily the last couple times they've made the playoffs. If Anderson didn't provide some good goaltending, they would have been swept by Montreal in round 1. They were tore a new one in 5 by a Pittsburgh team that wound up being swept by Boston in the next round back in 2013.

They played like that under Paulrus and under Cameron.

 

[Bleedred]

You're under the assumption with that response that the defense is that sucky all the time. They're not. When they are, Jones still loses those games more often than not.

There is really no evidence to support that a 'league average backup' is somewhere in the middle of that. What will give the team a better chance to win is the defense stepping up their game and preventing goals against and chances against because they're simply not getting the job done 5 on 5 and it's more pronounced when Stalock is in net.

There is enough evidence to support that a league average backup plays better than Stalock the last two years.

I didn't have a problem with Stalock tonight, goal 1 was pretty stoppable.

Just saying though.

 

[Alwalys]

It's the Senators. That last goal they scored tonight was a prime example of how they score. They're more opportunistic than anything and have little structure or system. I mean, they're not like Colorado bad or anything. Or Toronto under Carlyle.

That's why they get beat up on pretty easily the last couple times they've made the playoffs. If Anderson didn't provide some good goaltending, they would have been swept by Montreal in round 1. They were tore a new one in 5 by a Pittsburgh team that wound up being swept by Boston in the next round back in 2013.

They played like that under Paulrus and under Cameron.

That goal only happened because of the situation. They are the worst, softest team we have played yet on this trip. Zero defensive or offensive pressure.

 

[hohosaregood]

I blame Zubrys. A good hockey player would've tapped home those sweet Jumbo feeds into the net. Mike Brown would've done it anyways

 

[Pinkfloyd]

There is enough evidence to support that a league average backup plays better than Stalock the last two years.

I didn't have a problem with Stalock tonight, goal 1 was pretty stoppable.

Just saying though.

The problem with statements like that is that it lacks context. A 'league average backup' isn't playing behind the kind of defense that has regularly been iced when Stalock plays. A 'league average backup' isn't changing the defense's tendencies to suck when the backup is in net and that level of a goalie is also not making any more saves against the types of chances given up in the games Stalock has played.

People need to bury the idea that you can just put so and so there and the numbers improve. It's nowhere near that simplistic.

 

[Bleedred]

That goal only happened because of the situation. They are the worst, softest team we have played yet on this trip. Zero defensive or offensive pressure.

Somehow they're in a playoff spot too. I think they're one of the most overrated teams in the league. Not overrated as in people actually think they're a legit contender. Just overrated in the sense that everyone in the media ALWAYS picks them to be a playoff lock. They made the playoffs in 2013 because of unsustainable goaltending, then they missed the playoffs the next year because that goaltending regressed. They made the playoffs last year because of an unsustainable 2 months of goaltending from an AHL goaltender.

They're in the bottom 5 or 10 in shots against EVERY year, in the lower half of the league in shots for more often than not.

Like I said, they're good entertainment for a playoff beating. Every year there's a pretender that makes the playoffs, sometimes one per conference. And every year those teams are usually ripped apart by the other teams like a pack of zombies feeding on humans. Even if it's not in round 1, it usually happens in round 2.

 

[Bleedred]

The problem with statements like that is that it lacks context. A 'league average backup' isn't playing behind the kind of defense that has regularly been iced when Stalock plays. A 'league average backup' isn't changing the defense's tendencies to suck when the backup is in net and that level of a goalie is also not making any more saves against the types of chances given up in the games Stalock has played.

People need to bury the idea that you can just put so and so there and the numbers improve. It's nowhere near that simplistic.

I'm not of the belief that defense destroys a goaltender's play over a span of 30+ games, only in much smaller sample sizes.

I've been hearing for years that the Oilers goaltenders suck because their defense is bad. In reality, part of the reason their defense (as in goals against) is so bad is because their goaltending is weak as hell and they go dumpster diving or shopping at dollar tree for their goaltenders. Same with Arizona too. But Lindback has stunk on ALL 3 teams he's played on in the last 4 years and Smith was always a mediocre starting goaltender. Lindback was terrible for Tampa Bay and Bishop has been solid. The other goaltenders there have been good too, outside of Nabby's skeleton.

There's just as many BAD teams with horrendous defense, that actually have goaltenders playing well. Jonathan Bernier was amazing for one year behind a 35+ shot against Toronto. Now they have some structure and are playing respectably and he looks like a sieve that can't stop a half a mile per hour beachball from 100 feet out.

Ottawa is a good example too. They have averaged well over 30+ shots against the last half decade+ and Anderson has been awesome for the most part for them. With just one mediocre year in there.

As a Devils fan, the Devils were a mess last season and Schneider was absolutely amazing. It didn't get the team into a playoff spot, but it sure kept them from picking second or third overall and they looked respectable in the goals against category.

At some point, the defense needs to stop being blamed. Both guys play behind the same defense and one has been much better. Of the 3 goaltenders that have played for this team in the last 2 seasons, 2 have performed at an above average level, while the other has been below average at best. Not counting Grosenick, as he only played 2 games.

 

[Nighthock]

I blame Semenov. Jerk.

 

[Bleedred]

Don't get me wrong, the defense played just as bad for Jones last night and he allowed 4 goals also.

But I can't get behind the idea that the defense plays any worse in front of Stalock than it does in front of Jones.

Yeah of course in the luck of the draw, there might be games where the team will play worse in front of Stalock than Jones. Especially when you're only playing once a week like Stalock.

If Stalock stops goal number 1 tonight and a few stinkers in other games, he might not have won most of his games. But he would look a lot more respectable in the save percentage and goals against categories.

 

[Alwalys]

Jones faced tougher chances imo. I actually think he might have had the shutout tonight.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Stalock has a ****ing welt on his head. Stalock isn't to blame for this loss.

If you play, no excuses. It wasn't an excuse when Toskala screwed up against Edmonton, it cannot be an excuse now. If Stalock was injured he had a great opportunity to tell his coach that and get off the ice.

For all the talk about depth, the bottom 6 was full of skill and speed, and did mostly nothing. Against a soft defense, the Sharks should have been driving the net.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Team just out of sorts in that 3rd. Fatigue likely played a role, but 2-1 so far. Just win one if the next two and it's a successful road trip.

 

[Alwalys]

At least they are coming out like gangbusters in the first. Better than ******** the bed I suppose

 

[OrrNumber4]

Team just out of sorts in that 3rd. Fatigue likely played a role, but 2-1 so far. Just win one if the next two and it's a successful road trip.

Normally I would agree with you, but with this atrocious home record, the Sharks need to be impeccable on the road.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm not of the belief that defense destroys a goaltender's play over a span of 30+ games, only in much smaller sample sizes.

I've been hearing for years that the Oilers goaltenders suck because their defense is bad. In reality, part of the reason their defense (as in goals against) is so bad is because their goaltending is weak as hell and they go dumpster diving or shopping at dollar tree for their goaltenders. Same with Arizona too. But Lindback has stunk on ALL 3 teams he's played on in the last 4 years and Smith was always a mediocre starting goaltender. Lindback was terrible for Tampa Bay and Bishop has been solid. The other goaltenders there have been good too, outside of Nabby's skeleton.

There's just as many BAD teams with horrendous defense, that actually have goaltenders playing well. Jonathan Bernier was amazing for one year behind a 35+ shot against Toronto. Now they have some structure and are playing respectably and he looks like a sieve that can't stop a half a mile per hour beachball from 100 feet out.

Ottawa is a good example too. They have averaged well over 30+ shots against the last half decade+ and Anderson has been awesome for the most part for them. With just one mediocre year in there.

As a Devils fan, the Devils were a mess last season and Schneider was absolutely amazing. It didn't get the team into a playoff spot, but it sure kept them from picking second or third overall and they looked respectable in the goals against category.

At some point, the defense needs to stop being blamed. Both guys play behind the same defense and one has been much better. Of the 3 goaltenders that have played for this team in the last 2 seasons, 2 have performed at an above average level, while the other has been below average at best. Not counting Grosenick, as he only played 2 games.

If it were a starter's run of 30 games, you'd have a good case but the inconsistencies of the starts for a backup throw a wrench into that argument. Pointing to Edmonton and Arizona isn't really helping that argument either because both have trash for defense. But in the end, those arguments are more talking about the starters on those teams...not the backups. The starter SHOULD be better than the backup behind the same defense. The two you're pointing to are the starters...not the backup. The backup goaltending position is a whole different animal with much different expectations and benchmarks given the significantly different things associated with the job. It's easier to be the starter than it is to be the backup.

 

[CCM19]

Somehow they're in a playoff spot too. I think they're one of the most overrated teams in the league. Not overrated as in people actually think they're a legit contender. Just overrated in the sense that everyone in the media ALWAYS picks them to be a playoff lock. They made the playoffs in 2013 because of unsustainable goaltending, then they missed the playoffs the next year because that goaltending regressed. They made the playoffs last year because of an unsustainable 2 months of goaltending from an AHL goaltender.

They're in the bottom 5 or 10 in shots against EVERY year, in the lower half of the league in shots for more often than not.

Like I said, they're good entertainment for a playoff beating. Every year there's a pretender that makes the playoffs, sometimes one per conference. And every year those teams are usually ripped apart by the other teams like a pack of zombies feeding on humans. Even if it's not in round 1, it usually happens in round 2.

What did Ottawa ever do to you? I don't understand all the hate towards them, they find ways to win games and that's all that matters TBH. You talk about these playoff "beat downs" they had yet you fail to talk about the beat down they put on against the Habs. Were you a hockey fan at that time by chance?

 

[Alwalys]

What did Ottawa ever do to you? I don't understand all the hate towards them, they find ways to win games and that's all that matters TBH. You talk about these playoff "beat downs" they had yet you fail to talk about the beat down they put on against the Habs. Were you a hockey fan at that time by chance?

From what I saw tonight Ottawa ****ing sucks. Worse team than Edmonton before mcdavid.

Anderson appears to be the only reason they are not bottom scrapers. Worse than Colorado with Anderson,.

 

[Bleedred]

If it were a starter's run of 30 games, you'd have a good case but the inconsistencies of the starts for a backup throw a wrench into that argument. Pointing to Edmonton and Arizona isn't really helping that argument either because both have trash for defense. But in the end, those arguments are more talking about the starters on those teams...not the backups. The starter SHOULD be better than the backup behind the same defense. The two you're pointing to are the starters...not the backup. The backup goaltending position is a whole different animal with much different expectations and benchmarks given the significantly different things associated with the job. It's easier to be the starter than it is to be the backup.

Do you believe the team actually chooses to play worse in front of Stalock? Or just the luck of the draw that they happen to crap the bed when he's in?

I think the defense (particularly the team defense and not just defensemen when I see defense) **** the bed both of the last two night's, they offense was just able to bail them out last night. Or better yet, the team already had 2 on the board before they started playing badly. Tonight they only had 1 at that point.

 

[hohosaregood]

What did Ottawa ever do to you? I don't understand all the hate towards them, they find ways to win games and that's all that matters TBH. You talk about these playoff "beat downs" they had yet you fail to talk about the beat down they put on against the Habs. Were you a hockey fan at that time by chance?

I don't think you know what you're getting into. You're questioning irrational hate. That's not a path that has any winner.

 

[Bleedred]

What did Ottawa ever do to you? I don't understand all the hate towards them, they find ways to win games and that's all that matters TBH. You talk about these playoff "beat downs" they had yet you fail to talk about the beat down they put on against the Habs. Were you a hockey fan at that time by chance?

No I wasn't a hockey fan at the time. I just started watching two weeks ago.

I've been a hockey fan since before Ottawa (this incarnation at least) was a team. And I hate when fans come and feel the need to defend their team on other teams board when they're being crapped on.

Yeah the beat down they put on the Habs in round 1 in 2013? And then they turned around and got ***** slapped by a Pens team that was swept the next round and scored like 4 or 5 goals the entire season.

I hate when fans of other teams ask me why I don't like their teams. Because I CAN , how about that?

But you do deserve an answer. You wanna know why I REALLY hate the Senators more than anything? After their cheapskate owner called the Devils a boring team, I'm a Devils fan, Sharks are my second favorite team. And while the Devils have been boring the last few years, I think he was talking about the Devils teams of their glory days. Like the one that beat Ottawa in the 03 ECF, when Ottawa had a good chance at winning the cup that year.

 

[Alwalys]

I don't think you know what you're getting into. You're questioning irrational hate. That's not a path that has any winner.

The analysis in question was actually quite objective. Ottawa is terrible.

 

[Bleedred]

From what I saw tonight Ottawa ****ing sucks. Worse team than Edmonton before mcdavid.

Anderson appears to be the only reason they are not bottom scrapers. Worse than Colorado with Anderson,.

I don't think they're quite as bad as Edmonton or anything, but amazing goaltending and some opportunistic scoring is what keeps them in the playoff race annually. There's no doubt about that.

I still don't dislike Ottawa to the level of Calgary, Winnipeg, CBJ, Buffalo, and all of the direct rivals of the NJD and SJS.