Post-Game Talk: #30: FLYERS at Oilers, Friday, Dec. 14, 2018, 9:00 pm ET

[Jtown]

Only to see Hughes have an underwhelming or injury plagued career in a Flyers uniform.

Or have dave scott in all his excitment say “ jake hughes” andwe get a career echler

 

[Fight4yourRight]

This team is far too talented to be losing this much, in such pathetic style. Even with such a dreadful "system" in place by high school coach Haktard, Ian "Slapshot to the Skull" Laperriere, and Knobhead, who looks to be aiming for the worst PP in Flyers history at this point, they should still be managing to overcome and stay around .500. I.e. they've simply given up on their coaches. And that's good news for the fans who want to see an immediate change.

 

[Tripod]

Oilers fans game reactions from 1 page.

Hitch's game management is amazing. Feels good to have such a cerebral coach for once. He had a couple bumps at the start, trusting the ID line to defend a lead in the last minute, but he's learned fast who he can trust and who to lean on in which situations. So far so good.

They're horribly coached. I thought for sure the coach would be fired after the previous game, though I didn't realize they had a road trip so soon after. I think he's probably done after the trip. But according to Flyers fans, he has more lives than a cat, so who knows. I've always kinda liked the Flyers. They deserve better than that, but I guess I'm glad the Hack stayed on for at least this game.

Yeah teams volume perimeter shooting because the prime passing lanes are clogged doesn’t worry me at all.

Look at how few 2 on 1s or wide open cross seam passing plays we give up.

If teams want to take an open perimeter shot against our 6’7 athletic beast, go right ahead.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Oilers fans game reactions from 1 page.

Actually, that's me that said the 2nd post you quoted (as well as the 1st, which is correct).

And yeah, I thought your GM would've gotten rid of Hakstol by now. I also totally spaced out on there being a game tonight and that the Flyers playing so soon after previous game (I missed the game tonight because of that). I guess the soonest he would be gone is after the road trip, but you guys also said this guy seems to have more lives than a dozen cats, so I don't know and I don't get it. As mentioned, I've always had a soft spot for the Flyers and think you deserve better. Hopefully that happens soon.

 

[deadhead]

Hitch's game management: keep David away from Couts, sic him on Giroux at center. So we have a coach telling us that Giroux isn't a 1C, at least defensively.

There's a lot more problems than Hakstol. Anyone who has watched this road trip and thinks just changing coaches will fix this team (we're not Edmonton which just needed some discipline and structure and to play the backup goalie) is a fool. It's time to clean house.

If Fletcher decides this team can't make the playoffs (and I think at this point he'd like to delay until it's so obvious he can't be pushed into a bad trade) look for a serious fire sale at the TDL. At this point, it's time to commit to finishing the rebuild. Hextall tried to have it both ways, now it's time to admit that doesn't work, move out some veterans who've shown they can't win and get some elite young players.

This team is stuck in "tweener ville." It has no identity, below average size, average speed and average skill, and even if they get a bump from a new coach (which they got from Berube in 2013-14, and Hakstol in 2015-16) it won't be sustainable.

It's not like a new coach will make Voracek, JVR, Simmonds or Ghost different players, or elevate Raffl, Laughton, Hagg or Gudas. They are what they are. And it's not good enough. And Weise, MacDonald, Weal and Lehtera aren't the reason this team isn't winning.

We're past "fire the coach." We're at "fire the team."

 

[Garbage Goal]

I just despise Holmgren. Club president of what exactly? The man screwed them with his last few years as GM and basically dropped a grenade on the franchise this season.

Yet he decides to keep the man most responsible for the struggles employed, and tells the new GM to evaluate the players with Hak still in charge.

Holmgren is destroying this franchise.

I said that in his last few years as GM when he was bleeding assets with almost nothing to show for it. Then he got promoted.

So I guess I’m just not surprised he’s continuing to f*** up everything. More surprised so few fans let him escape criticism when he can be directly tied to everything that’s wrong, including Hak.

 

[Cloned]

Hitch's game management: keep David away from Couts, sic him on Giroux at center. So we have a coach telling us that Giroux isn't a 1C, at least defensively.

There's a lot more problems than Hakstol. Anyone who has watched this road trip and thinks just changing coaches will fix this team (we're not Edmonton which just needed some discipline and structure and to play the backup goalie) is a fool. It's time to clean house.

If Fletcher decides this team can't make the playoffs (and I think at this point he'd like to delay until it's so obvious he can't be pushed into a bad trade) look for a serious fire sale at the TDL. At this point, it's time to commit to finishing the rebuild. Hextall tried to have it both ways, now it's time to admit that doesn't work, move out some veterans who've shown they can't win and get some elite young players.

This team is stuck in "tweener ville." It has no identity, below average size, average speed and average skill, and even if they get a bump from a new coach (which they got from Berube in 2013-14, and Hakstol in 2015-16) it won't be sustainable.

It's not like a new coach will make Voracek, JVR, Simmonds or Ghost different players, or elevate Raffl, Laughton, Hagg or Gudas. They are what they are. And it's not good enough. And Weise, MacDonald, Weal and Lehtera aren't the reason this team isn't winning.

We're past "fire the coach." We're at "fire the team."

To be fair, your team has a lot more depth than my Oilers and a lot more talent on D, at least on paper.

Goaltending is the big equalizer yes, but you’d be surprised how much a new coach can change things. Ten games ago most Oilers fans were saying the exact same thing about our team. A bad coach can make your entire team look far worse than it actually is.

A better coach probably wins you the game against Calgary and likely gets you at least a tie tonight against my team.

 

[Garbage Goal]

A reminder: since the surprise win over the Pens and the four-day break, the Flyers have endured

- a deflating OT loss to CBJ after Sanheim brought them back
- [a fluky win against the Sabres in which they scored six goals in a row]
- a crushing 6-goal loss to the Jets
- a soul-devouring collapse and OT loss to the Flames
- a boring, numbing 3-goal loss to the Oil Slick

This road swing has been about as bad as we expected. They're fifth from the bottom of the league at this very second and quickly losing any chance of making the playoffs. If they needed, say, 94 points for the second wildcard, they'd need to play at a 104-pt pace the rest of the way.

The coach should have been fired weeks ago. His replacement is going to get them on a roll and they're going to end up missing by a handful of points.

People should forget about the playoffs at this point. Before the road trip, at the Sens game, I said they’re likely to lose most of their games on the trip due to strength of competition. Even at that point we were a long shot for the playoffs.

Right now it would be a Herculean feat because it’s not just about playing at a 104+ point pace, it’s also about outpacing the long list of teams in front of us and winning our games in hand or opponents squandering theirs.

It’s not happening. Never mind that Hak and Lappy are still here. They surrendered the season we were supposed to compete the millisecond that fired everyone but the two worst culprits.

 

[Bigkarl]

Hitch's game management: keep David away from Couts, sic him on Giroux at center. So we have a coach telling us that Giroux isn't a 1C, at least defensively.

There's a lot more problems than Hakstol. Anyone who has watched this road trip and thinks just changing coaches will fix this team (we're not Edmonton which just needed some discipline and structure and to play the backup goalie) is a fool. It's time to clean house.

If Fletcher decides this team can't make the playoffs (and I think at this point he'd like to delay until it's so obvious he can't be pushed into a bad trade) look for a serious fire sale at the TDL. At this point, it's time to commit to finishing the rebuild. Hextall tried to have it both ways, now it's time to admit that doesn't work, move out some veterans who've shown they can't win and get some elite young players.

This team is stuck in "tweener ville." It has no identity, below average size, average speed and average skill, and even if they get a bump from a new coach (which they got from Berube in 2013-14, and Hakstol in 2015-16) it won't be sustainable.

It's not like a new coach will make Voracek, JVR, Simmonds or Ghost different players, or elevate Raffl, Laughton, Hagg or Gudas. They are what they are. And it's not good enough. And Weise, MacDonald, Weal and Lehtera aren't the reason this team isn't winning.

We're past "fire the coach." We're at "fire the team."

Why do you insist that they shouldn’t do anything that doesn’t fix everything wrong with the team? It’s the stupidest argument I’ve ever seen on these boards, and you use it all the time. The team is flawed and won’t be fixed simply by changing the coach, so let’s not ever change the coach.

They are a disaster. They get blown out of more games than they are competitive in. The coach is a joke. The team is obviously flawed. The coach is obviously a complete failure. That is indesputable at this point. Firing the coach would be the quickest way to improve the team. They almost certainly can’t play any worse then they are right now, and would most likely play better, if for no other reason then a shake up in the locker room.

There is such a thing as incremental improvement. Does firing the coach fix everything? Of course not. Does it instantly make them a better team. Almost unquestionably yes.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Since Nov 2nd, Giroux is tied for 1st in ES points.

He has 3 PP points since then. Kucherov has 15.

Hard to believe it's the PP points that are hurting us/him.

Between his production this year and last it’s fair to say we have one of the best players in the league. Yet we’re one of the worst teams in the league.

The blatant incompetence is at absurd, satirical levels. At this point I want Giroux traded just so he can win a Cup somewhere instead of wasting the latter half of his career in this shithole.

 

[deadhead]

This is the same coach that had them at a 108 point pace from January 1 to the end of last season.
Sure, the goalies are really bad, but they weren't very good the second half of last season.
The team can play better, it bounces back every other year to mediocre and gets beat the first round of the playoffs. This has been going on since 2011-12.

Point is this isn't a good team, Hakstol may be dragging it down this year. but he's not dragging down a good team, he's dragging down the same mediocre team he elevated the season before.

There just is no theme, they're not fast, they're not skilled, they're not physical, a little bit of everything but nothing you can build around. A new coach can't play up tempo because they lack enough players with the speed to keep up. The lack of identify isn't due to the coach, it's due to a mix of players that isn't coherent, and the first thing a top coach would do is go to his GM and ask for changes.

Hextall's mistake was to not complete blowing the team up in 2014-15.
Fletcher should finish what Hextall started, not try to limp through this year and make a tweak or two next season.
If they keep losing, hopefully Scott will realize it and give Fletcher the green light to make major changes instead of trying to sneak into the playoffs by selling the future.

 

[deadhead]

To be fair, your team has a lot more depth than my Oilers and a lot more talent on D, at least on paper.

Goaltending is the big equalizer yes, but you’d be surprised how much a new coach can change things. Ten games ago most Oilers fans were saying the exact same thing about our team. A bad coach can make your entire team look far worse than it actually is.

A better coach probably wins you the game against Calgary and likely gets you at least a tie tonight against my team.

Hitchock couldn't turn Talbot into a good goalie, so he simply made Koskinen the starter.
Our "Koskinen" is in the AHL at age 20 learning how to play goalie, so we don't have that option, until maybe next year.

You can't make the Flyers more "disciplined" or committed to defense, we give up among the fewest scoring chances in the league, hard to get more conservative than that - and a new coach can't make us into TB or Toronto, because we don't have that kind of offensive talent.

We outplayed your Oilers:
58.9% Corsi
23 to 16 scoring chances
12 to 3 high danger scoring chances

Philadelphia Flyers @ Edmonton Oilers, 2018-12-14

Koskinen outplayed Stolarz, and the Flyers couldn't make the big play when they needed it.
The Flyers make too many passes b/c they're afraid to shoot, this has been going on for years, at some point it's the players, some players have a "killer" instinct, others don't.

 

[Cloned]

Hitchock couldn't turn Talbot into a good goalie, so he simply made Koskinen the starter.
Our "Koskinen" is in the AHL at age 20 learning how to play goalie, so we don't have that option, until maybe next year.

You can't make the Flyers more "disciplined" or committed to defense, we give up among the fewest scoring chances in the league, hard to get more conservative than that - and a new coach can't make us into TB or Toronto, because we don't have that kind of offensive talent.

We outplayed your Oilers:
58.9% Corsi
23 to 16 scoring chances
12 to 3 high danger scoring chances

Philadelphia Flyers @ Edmonton Oilers, 2018-12-14

Koskinen outplayed Stolarz, and the Flyers couldn't make the big play when they needed it.
The Flyers make too many passes b/c they're afraid to shoot, this has been going on for years, at some point it's the players, some players have a "killer" instinct, others don't.

He got Talbot to rebound (amazingly, because I thought the guy was done), something McLellan couldn't do for 1.5 years. Sometimes a new coach can help more than you would think.

Most Oilers fans were saying the exact thing about our roster under McLellan: not enough NHL players, the players suck, the GM sucks, etc. New coach comes in and suddenly those scrub players are playing like actual NHLers and the GM looks better.

Now, Chia still sucks, and there is a strong possibility that Holmgren/Hextall aren't very good either, but that doesn't mean the roster has to perform like crap every night. It's one thing if you're changing an average coach for an average coach (like the Leafs did with Wilson and Maurice), but if you're changing a bad coach (McLellan/Hakstol) into a better coach (Hitchcock/Quenneville), it can make a big difference.

And honestly from an outsider's POV, your roster doesn't look that bad. It's got lots of talent on D and some intriguing pieces at forward.

 

[MessierII]

Hitchock couldn't turn Talbot into a good goalie, so he simply made Koskinen the starter.
Our "Koskinen" is in the AHL at age 20 learning how to play goalie, so we don't have that option, until maybe next year.

You can't make the Flyers more "disciplined" or committed to defense, we give up among the fewest scoring chances in the league, hard to get more conservative than that - and a new coach can't make us into TB or Toronto, because we don't have that kind of offensive talent.

We outplayed your Oilers:
58.9% Corsi
23 to 16 scoring chances
12 to 3 high danger scoring chances

Philadelphia Flyers @ Edmonton Oilers, 2018-12-14

Koskinen outplayed Stolarz, and the Flyers couldn't make the big play when they needed it.
The Flyers make too many passes b/c they're afraid to shoot, this has been going on for years, at some point it's the players, some players have a "killer" instinct, others don't.

The oilers are also missing 3/4 of their top 4 D and played in Winnipeg last night in a hard fought OT game.

I agree with your premise though. Philly’s biggest problem is the classic philly problem. Goaltending.

 

[Garbage Goal]

The oilers are also missing 3/4 of their top 4 D and played in Winnipeg last night in a hard fought OT game.

I agree with your premise though. Philly’s biggest problem is the classic philly problem. Goaltending.

Yeah and nobody wants to play in Edmonton because it's freezing and there's nothing to do.

Now can you kindly go back to your own board with your uninformed outsider opinions that default to thoughtless stereotypes?

 

[deadhead]

And honestly from an outsider's POV, your roster doesn't look that bad. It's got lots of talent on D and some intriguing pieces at forward.

It's the fit that's the problem, we have 3 talented defensemen, but they don't fit together well.
We have talented forwards, but some are slow (JVR), some are hard to fit (Voracek, Simmonds), some create matchup issues (Giroux at C where opposing coaches match him against their 1st line), some are too inexperienced (Patrick).

This isn't a team that underachieves because it's full of veterans who need a kick or has a lot of talent but lacked discipline and structure (Edmonton before Hitch arrived).
It underachieves because it's the island of misfit toys.

Hextall tried to rebuild while remaining competitive, so he kept a veteran core that kept the team respectable but wasn't good enough to take them past mediocre, and the kids are just now arriving (over the next three years we have a flood of talent on the way) - which got him fired.

 

[flyers0909]

Hak elevated them to the playoffs. Jesus

 

[Cloned]

It's the fit that's the problem, we have 3 talented defensemen, but they don't fit together well.
We have talented forwards, but some are slow (JVR), some are hard to fit (Voracek, Simmonds), some create matchup issues (Giroux at C where opposing coaches match him against their 1st line), some are too inexperienced (Patrick).

This isn't a team that underachieves because it's full of veterans who need a kick or has a lot of talent but lacked discipline and structure (Edmonton before Hitch arrived).
It underachieves because it's the island of misfit toys.

Hextall tried to rebuild while remaining competitive, so he kept a veteran core that kept the team respectable but wasn't good enough to take them past mediocre, and the kids are just now arriving (over the next three years we have a flood of talent on the way) - which got him fired.

Far be it for me to argue with you about your own team's roster, but if Hitch can make lemonade out of lemons in Edmonton (which has far less talent than you might think, beyond McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, a handful of defenders and a 6'5" goalie), I'd imagine a better coach can at least get the Flyers to a playoff spot.

I've watched a lot of bad hockey coaches over the last decade plus with the Oilers, and Hakstol looks just as bad as the worst of them (Eakins). The only thing keeping him from having an all-time bad season like Eakins had with the Oilers is the fact that the Flyers' roster is too talented to outright tank, even with a terrible coach at the helm. Get a better coach and I'd be surprised if you guys didn't make some noise this season.

 

[kelmitchell]

Its really embarassing that our team is becomming the joke of the nhl

 

[dats81]

We have come to a point where I would embrace Hitchcock as a Coach here in Philly. There was a time where I hated his guts and wanted him far far away from this place.

Now after having witnessed the imcompetence of the likes of Stevens, Berube and Hakstol he looks like a genius behind the bench.

 

[BritainStix]

Deadhead just stop ffs.

I love how you cant see that haks system has been found out by every team in the league.

Just stop

 

[DancingPanther]

Ok, I'm a lotta drunk and a little high, but did I just see the goalie demand to get pulled? Only for the coach to be lime "yeah good call, come on out I guess"

Love it.

 

[big ape]

Yeah and nobody wants to play in Edmonton because it's freezing and there's nothing to do.

Now can you kindly go back to your own board with your uninformed outsider opinions that default to thoughtless stereotypes?

Great bar scene , lots of Snow candy Just ask Hall. And he was pissed to have to leave.

 

[Audible Velvet]

Great bar scene , lots of Snow candy Just ask Hall. And he was pissed to have to leave.

That you Mango?

 

[x DeCruze]

Deadhead just stop ffs.

I love how you cant see that haks system has been found out by every team in the league.

Just stop

Seriously not sure how Hak escapes most to all blame with him every time. Even the playoff appearances with Hak were nothing to brag about, they looked passive and got dominated most of the playoff games and that was the system not the players. Hak is just terrible at adjusting in game strategies.