Post-Game Talk: #30: FLYERS at Oilers, Friday, Dec. 14, 2018, 9:00 pm ET

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
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jvr screams to me Dave Scott. It was so out of charachter for hexy

I wonder if that's one of the things Fletcher was talking about to players:

"James, sorry about things working out this way, is there anywhere you'd prefer to be traded?"
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
Sponsor
Sep 28, 2014
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JVR was high risk (overall play, salary usage - even with expansion exposure factor), low reward (we already had one of those PP net guys in Simmer, was the signing really going to make PP2 a threat?).

Facepalm signing for sure, yet to really improve the team

With JVR, I'm actually looked at Year 2 as when it will pay bigger dividends.

Frost feeding JVR could be an amazing 2nd or 3rd line combo, much like Frost-Katchouk was for the Soo. Give Frosty a finisher and he will score goals off of his stick.

Giroux - Couturier - Konecny
Lindblom - Patrick - Voracek (if not traded)
JVR - Frost - Whoever (Allison? Player acquired via trade?)
 

Captain Dave Poulin

Imaginary Cat
Apr 30, 2015
68,015
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Tokyo, JP
Yeah I know obtuse people can be college teachers too

tenor.gif
 

David St Hubbins

Well, you're not as confused as he is.
Jan 24, 2016
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It's funny to me that the roster is inarguably improved over last year, our franchise player is still playing out of his mind, and yet the team is byballaaccounts, playing worse.

All the excuses we relied on last year to say Hak wasn't as bad as we thought are gone. At what point do you just have to accept that Hakstol is a major factor in the poor performance of this team?
This is exactly the point that so many choose to ignore. In no position did we get worse. In many positions we got better talent, either through growth in maturity or by adding. Yet the results are worse.

So either the coaching is the main problem, or the team performance regressed despite increased talent level. Which must be laid at the feet of coaching.

So for those who think the talent is the problem, please list out the players who are less talented, less healthy, less capable than last year the the “not coaching” reason for their decline. Please, enlighten us. Provide your expert assessment as to why the players are worse this year than last, despite the “capable” coaching that they are gifted.
 

David St Hubbins

Well, you're not as confused as he is.
Jan 24, 2016
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The team is playing bad, but I'm not sure the roster is improved, overall.

Goalies are worse, which is hard to believe, but true. Worst in the league by a wide margin.
Ghost is visibly slower than last year, I doubt that is due to coaching. There's something wrong with him.
Manning was replaced by Folin, wash. Folin is better defensively, a cipher on offense.

The big upgrade was JVR, but he doesn't fit anywhere. What they needed was a fast RW, not a slow LW.
Vorobyev turned out to be worse than Filppula.
Everyone else is the same, except Couts had a horrid first month due to the MCL

Provorov has regressed, but really no one else.
Patrick may not be scoring as much as last year's second half, but shows great defensive instincts and drive.
Lindblom has been up and down, but he couldn't score to save his life last year.
Sanheim is playing better this year. As is Simmonds.

The PK has finally turned around, but the PP is dreadful, and that's supposed to be Knob's domain.

They overachieved last year, underachieving this year.

I'd say even with a good coach, they're a 95 point team +/- 5 (i.e. 100 if things go right, 90 if things go wrong).
Which is why I don't think even Q can get them to the playoffs this year, they need to play at a 105+ pace now to make the playoffs, and I don't see that kind of talent right now.

Why did they regress? Why are the PP and PK historically bad?
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
7,151
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No, we are not. Myself I was more patient than a few around here, but the last couple of years with the exception of a couple of stretches have been hard to watch.
This team brings no entertainment value. Watching this team is like having a front row seat to someone getting a root canal.
Losing sucks. It is even worse when the entertainment value is non existent.
We need a coaching purge. Now.

It largely depends on what the actual situation is. If Fletcher has already hired Q for the new year then I think you guys are overreacting. Having an interim for a few games is such a waste of time and is pretty ridiculous looking organizationally wise. If there isn't a current plan in place then Hakstol and co. need to be relieved of all their duties immediately.

I have a a very hard time imagining that Fletcher is totally fine with the current situation and isn't doing anything about it.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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This is exactly the point that so many choose to ignore. In no position did we get worse. In many positions we got better talent, either through growth in maturity or by adding. Yet the results are worse.

So either the coaching is the main problem, or the team performance regressed despite increased talent level. Which must be laid at the feet of coaching.

So for those who think the talent is the problem, please list out the players who are less talented, less healthy, less capable than last year the the “not coaching” reason for their decline. Please, enlighten us. Provide your expert assessment as to why the players are worse this year than last, despite the “capable” coaching that they are gifted.

Ghost is definitely less talented, he''s slower than last year..
JVR was the only significant addition.
Provorov has regressed, the rest are the same, Sanheim improved.
The goalies are far worse.

The team play has regressed, but the increase in talent isn't enough to overcome the worst goalies in the NHL.

This is still a 95 point team, to become a playoff contender a new coach won't be enough.
You need to rework the top 9, reworked the defensive pairs and find a real goalie.
I think it's highly unlikely this can be done at the TDL without seriously mortgaging the future.
 

David St Hubbins

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Jan 24, 2016
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Ghost is definitely less talented, he''s slower than last year..
JVR was the only significant addition.
Provorov has regressed, the rest are the same, Sanheim improved.
The goalies are far worse.

The team play has regressed, but the increase in talent isn't enough to overcome the worst goalies in the NHL.

This is still a 95 point team, to become a playoff contender a new coach won't be enough.
You need to rework the top 9, reworked the defensive pairs and find a real goalie.
I think it's highly unlikely this can be done at the TDL without seriously mortgaging the future.

Uhh, why? If it’s not the coach/system/usage, why are they regressing? And JVR wasn’t the only significant addition: Simmonds played hurt all last year. He’s healthy now. Addition.

Tell us why?
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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For some people, if Ghost is doing well, it’s because he’s gained back speed from his ACL injury. If he’s in a rut, it’s because he’s now slow. In consecutive seasons yet.

Actually, I thought it was a hip/groin, similar to Giroux. The ACL was in the AHL.
Giroux bounced back 100%, Ghost looked slower last year than his rookie year, and looks even slower this year.
 

Foggy14

Registered User
Sep 13, 2017
1,902
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JVR was high risk (overall play, salary usage - even with expansion exposure factor), low reward (we already had one of those PP net guys in Simmer, was the signing really going to make PP2 a threat?).

Facepalm signing for sure, yet to really improve the team

jvr screams to me Dave Scott. It was so out of charachter for hexy

Bingo.

Trades for veterans to help his struggling penalty kill last summer were also not made. Scott acknowledged Tuesday that he attended last summer's NHL draft in Dallas anticipating pulling off a big trade.

"Didn't happen,'' said Scott. "And again, Ron was the guy and he was committed to this thing. … We came back from the draft. I was disappointed that we didn't get more done. I went out to see [Ron] on a Tuesday and I think he signed JVR on a Friday.''
James van Riemsdyk received a five-year, $35 million deal after John Tavares made it clear he was not interested in playing for the Flyers.

Said Scott, "It's nice when you can give somebody a blank check and you don't ask them to trade somebody away. It's all upside.''

With Ron Hextall gone, the Flyers are Dave Scott’s team now | Sam Donnellon

Well, not exactly "all upside."

But I'm with Reb in thinking that JVR could make more sense next season, provided we don't extend Simmer and move him for assets prior to the February deadline.

 
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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Armored Train
JVR is a fine move. If Ron didn't want to do it then Ron was really never going to take the team over the top.


The problem with JVR here is poor usage.
 

GapToothedWonder

Registered User
Dec 20, 2013
5,196
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Paris of the Praries
For some people, if Ghost is doing well, it’s because he’s gained back speed from his ACL injury. If he’s in a rut, it’s because he’s now slow. In consecutive seasons yet.

On that note I have felt like Ghost might be playing a little banged up right now. Or maybe his confidence is just fully shattered at this point.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
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Pennsylvania
For some people, if Ghost is doing well, it’s because he’s gained back speed from his ACL injury. If he’s in a rut, it’s because he’s now slow. In consecutive seasons yet.
The Ghost complaints have been incredibly stupid this year.

Saying he's not playing well is not only a legit complaint, but a fact. However, it's gone so far past reasonable, at this point, that it blows my mind (and I'm not even talking about the contrarian hater making up imaginary flaws and mistakes). People saying he's expendable and should be traded is such insane short-sightedness that I honestly lose respect for their overall hockey knowledge.

Having a bad season when the entire team (except for literally like 4 or 5 players) looks awful isn't the end of his career and doesn't magically rewrite the past. We saw what he could do last season... and that's be one of the best defensemen in the league. He's an incredibly unique and valuable player, on top of being on a f***ing great contract, so trading him should be completely off the table.
 

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