Value of: #3 or #5 picks

[bernmeister]

Are you stoned?

This might be the most ridiculous proposal I've seen in a long ass time.

not at all
am still tweaking but in overview

- Oil want to trade up, give signif young assets. Check

- Rangers want to trade up, give signif young assets. Check
- Sens need lots of good pieces, get some immediate help + lots of youth/picks to draft or swap for some plug and play known players, also check.

My prop is variant on type of return Sens get.
You are not getting like Draistil + Oil 2020 for 3 and 5OA.
You're not getting similar to that.
​

 

[Samsquanch]

not at all
am still tweaking but in overview

- Oil want to trade up, give signif young assets. Check

- Rangers want to trade up, give signif young assets. Check
- Sens need lots of good pieces, get some immediate help + lots of youth/picks to draft or swap for some plug and play known players, also check.

My prop is variant on type of return Sens get.
You are not getting like Draistil + Oil 2020 for 3 and 5OA.
You're not getting similar to that.
​

Just wow..

Thank god you gave us Sens fans that reality check at the end there...We wouldnt want to sound delusional.

We should probably just accept this package of ten B-grade assets and be done with those pesky #3 and #5 picks while they still have a bit of value left. LA is basically doing us a favour at this point....

Glad that we have a guy like you thats looking out for our best interests! You just let us know if theres any more trades that we can help you guys out with..

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Are you stoned?

This might be the most ridiculous proposal I've seen in a long ass time.

That's the kind of trades he always makes. Rangers get a truckload of gold for a few pieces of junkyard scrap.

 

[bernmeister]

That's the kind of trades he always makes. Rangers get a truckload of gold for a few pieces of junkyard scrap.

my deals are no more partisan than what usually is on these boards.

people pretend they want coke for pepsi, setting aside if there is usually enough profit for either side for that, but they really want as close to a swindle as possible.

 

[bernmeister]

Just wow..

Thank god you gave us Sens fans that reality check at the end there...We wouldnt want to sound delusional.

We should probably just accept this package of ten B-grade assets and be done with those pesky #3 and #5 picks while they still have a bit of value left. LA is basically doing us a favour at this point....

Glad that we have a guy like you thats looking out for our best interests! You just let us know if theres any more trades that we can help you guys out with..

Hey, don't blame me for your situation.

It's not insulting to say Sens need a lot of help in multiple areas.

You want to go super slow, you go one piece at a time, and hope you draft well.

BUF needs to accelerate futures for known values sooner than later if it wants to make Eichel happy.

OTT doesn't have to go there, but like I said, it is unrealistic to think 3 and 5 gets something like Drai and late EDM 1st.

An approach along my lines gives most hits of some return now plus ample futures.

If you wanna suggest another route, pls feel free to do so --- but let's not have a mere verbal statement; instead pls give some analysis showing substance to your position.

 

[sens13]

Hey, don't blame me for your situation.

It's not insulting to say Sens need a lot of help in multiple areas.

You want to go super slow, you go one piece at a time, and hope you draft well.

BUF needs to accelerate futures for known values sooner than later if it wants to make Eichel happy.

OTT doesn't have to go there, but like I said, it is unrealistic to think 3 and 5 gets something like Drai and late EDM 1st.

An approach along my lines gives most hits of some return now plus ample futures.

If you wanna suggest another route, pls feel free to do so --- but let's not have a mere verbal statement; instead pls give some analysis showing substance to your position.

lol there's no conversation to have because your proposal is so garbage. But I means that's typical of you. Everyone knows about the rangers fan who spews hot garbage all the time.

How about you tell me how it's fair that ottawa gives up 2 top 5 picks and 2 seconds and ends up with 4 late firsts, a 2nd line tweener, and a one hit d-man?

Try to explain that. Seems like you have no idea how to value top 5 picks.

Probably one of the worst proposals I've read in while. Get your self checked. You might be delusional!

2 elite players will help the sens much more than the trash your offering. Championships are won by teams headed by elite players. Not teams headed by meh players. Late 1st round picks don't have the value you think. Not to mention that not every late pick hits. The probablilty of top 5 picks hitting is much more. So sens trade 2 guaranteed elite players for 4 magic beans, a 2nd line tweener, and a one hit d-man. Wow just saying it again made me almost barf.

 

[Kupo]

Bern when your proposals look like this...

...... You’re doing something wrong.

 

[sens13]

my deals are no more partisan than what usually is on these boards.

people pretend they want coke for pepsi, setting aside if there is usually enough profit for either side for that, but they really want as close to a swindle as possible.

So your admitting your proposals are trash? Damn. everyone knew that but just shows your stupidity when you openly admit it.

 

[Big Muddy]

Bern when your proposals look like this...

...... You’re doing something wrong.

Ya, when I look at a proposal that takes a page to describe, I ignore it and move on quickly. Those kind of proposals are typically trash-bin level quality.

 

[CanadienShark]

3 way
to Oil
2020 3OA [OTT via SJ]

to Sens
+ EDM 2020 1st, NYR 2020 1st, CAR/TOR 2020 1st, NYR 2020 3rd, NYR 2021 1ST
+ Buchnevich [rfa, next season 3.25 per] + Deangelo [deal pending project 5.5 ish mid term, more short term, less long term]

to NYR
OTT 2020 1st 5OA
Broberg
CBJ 2020 and 2021 2nd

Analysis:
Oil gets the pick it wants
Rangers the next pick + Broberg
Sens get ample 1sts and other pick value, top RD to pair w/Chabot plus a guy who can play either W first or second line

--------
separate deal
OTT 2021 4th + NYR 2020 6th + three 2020 7ths (NYR, NAS, VAN)
+ Smith 4.35 expires next season, bonus already paid
for
Gaborik rights 4.875 ltir + Sens 2021 3rd

On paper I expect OTT saves a little money and gets lesser picks to let NY upgrade from OTT 4 to OTT 3 next year.

This is a classic Bern post. A little shorter than usual, but right on point with the absurdity.

 

[CanadienShark]

I'm blown away by how negative the response is to this thread.

There are a bunch of #3 and #5 flops or guys that became average players in recent history. Teams would kill to be able to go and trade the picks that became Bogosian or Gudbrandson or Luke Schenn or Alzner or Galchenyuk or Strome or Turris or Drouin or Niederreiter or Strome or Dal Colle ...That's 11 picks out of the last 22 picks in these spots that you'd probably go back and take the trade if given the opportunity. There are others that are pushes.

I get this is a prospects forum, but does that list not give you any pause at all?

And for the sens, that's before you even consider the salary aspects. The Sens just traded Erik Karlsson and Mark Stone for underwhelming returns because we couldn't afford them and they were due to get paid.

If we rock this lottery and land our own version of Matthews and Marner, we're going to be $22 million invested in a few years when these two need to get paid. That's about a 3rd of our cap tied up in two players, and will never happen. We'll end up trading them then. I think the value of the pick is higher now than the value of the guy about to be paid (if he hits, which is a coin toss).

I want to win a cup, not watch a few stars headlining an AHL team for a couple seasons. I trade these picks for quantity of slightly lesser stars that are established, and try to build a deep young contender without stars, like how Vegas shocked everyone in their first season.

As much as people complain about the premise, I think you win this trade about 65% of the time, push about 15% of the time and lose a star like Price for the last 20%.

This is hilarious. Vegas hasn't won a cup even despite adding star players since their Cinderella year. Your whole idea is to ice a roster of misfits and hope they catch fire? That's not a plan, that's a prayer.

 

[Tkachuckycheese]

Ottawa is in full rebuild, but we're a budget team and I'm worried we can't compete with expensive superstars eating up too big a share of our budget space.

If Sens decide to win by committee and team depth, what good pieces would you offer up for the #3 and/or #5 picks?
Needs to be youth, picks or cost controlled assets.

You are scared to have superstars on the Sens and have to pay them? Isn't your proposal simply the same old Sens mentality? Let's have cheap players and never take the next step to be an elite team? Are you friends with Melnyk?

Youth picks = drafted players at 3 and 5.
Cost control = drafted players at 3 and 5.

You want to trade for more players that will need to paid earlier than the 3 years of ELC they will be getting with drafted players. I truly think before these drafted players have their next contract Melnyk won't be in the picture.

Let's just have bottom 6 players forever and not take the next step ever lol

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Hey, don't blame me for your situation.

It's not insulting to say Sens need a lot of help in multiple areas.

You want to go super slow, you go one piece at a time, and hope you draft well.

BUF needs to accelerate futures for known values sooner than later if it wants to make Eichel happy.

OTT doesn't have to go there, but like I said, it is unrealistic to think 3 and 5 gets something like Drai and late EDM 1st.

An approach along my lines gives most hits of some return now plus ample futures.

If you wanna suggest another route, pls feel free to do so --- but let's not have a mere verbal statement; instead pls give some analysis showing substance to your position.

Ok here ya go.

The Sens are loaded with prospects at all positions. The main question is if some of their better prospects are going to be able to make the jump into elite territory to become legit top line forwards or top pair defensemen.

What they need most, are blue chip stud prospects up front. Especially a top line center. And the best way to get that, is by hitting a home run with 2 top 5 picks in potentially the best draft since 2003, where the 2nd and 3rd ranked prospects could have probably gone number 1 if drafted in 2 of the past 3 drafts.

The trade you proposed, doesn't fill their glaring needs, and turns their two best chances at filling those needs into a bunch of quantity over quality, and not even enough of that.

So yeah, nonsensical trade is nonsensical.

 

[dumbdick]

This is hilarious. Vegas hasn't won a cup even despite adding star players since their Cinderella year. Your whole idea is to ice a roster of misfits and hope they catch fire? That's not a plan, that's a prayer.

Not misfits. Good but not elite players throughout that we can afford to pay. Effective but not flashy players that are hard to play against, up and down the roster. A playoff-built team that wins by committee.

Dollar for dollar, I think that's a better strategy for a team like the sens.

 

[CanadienShark]

Not misfits. Good but not elite players throughout that we can afford to pay. Effective but not flashy players that are hard to play against, up and down the roster. A playoff-built team that wins by committee.

Dollar for dollar, I think that's a better strategy for a team like the sens.

In order to fill a roster with those sorts, you're going to have to pay them. Having depth for a Stanley Cup won't be cheap.

 

[Canucks LB]

Curious if the sens would do #5 for boeser.

Boeser already established #1 RW goal scorer, young on a good contract.

#5 pick could be a player better than brock, but also could be a huge bust, while Brock is absolutely established and would be a key piece for the sens.

 

[Clamshells]

Curious if the sens would do #5 for boeser.

Boeser already established #1 RW goal scorer, young on a good contract.

#5 pick could be a player better than brock, but also could be a huge bust, while Brock is absolutely established and would be a key piece for the sens.

Not for the 5th, but for other lesser pieces and Ottawa taking on cap, sure.

 

[Pitaya]

As an Oil fan I would offer Broberg + our 1st (20th OA currently) for either 3rd OA straight up or 5th OA + OTT 2nd (33rd OA).

More like Bouchard plus your first for 3rd overall

Stutzle would immediately be your 3rd best forward in a few years time. Just because Edmonton doesnt need a forward as much as a dman doesnt change what the Sens need in value

 

[Pitaya]

Curious if the sens would do #5 for boeser.

Boeser already established #1 RW goal scorer, young on a good contract.

#5 pick could be a player better than brock, but also could be a huge bust, while Brock is absolutely established and would be a key piece for the sens.

Since when is Boeser an already established #1RW?

The guys 5v5 numbers are worse than some teams high end third liners... his highest 5v5 total is 32 which would rank him somewhere in the 80-100 range in a normal season..

 

[kilowatt]

If Drysdale is there at 5, maybe Turcotte for Drysdale. If the Kings draft Byfield, perhaps they trade Turcotte for a blue chip defenseman that they really need.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Looking for quantity of young talented players to fill our whole roster with talent, vs. 2 guys that together might draw so much money that we can't ice much else to support them. Pre-empting a future budget crunch by offering quality for quantity now. Sens fans can't have nice things.

How many contract spots do we have?

 

[dumbdick]

In order to fill a roster with those sorts, you're going to have to pay them. Having depth for a Stanley Cup won't be cheap.

Hence why I'm suggesting trading away these magic beans that might become stars for those other kind of players.

Without more money in salaries, our choice is stars OR depth, not stars AND depth.

 

[10Ducky10]

Ottawa is in full rebuild, but we're a budget team and I'm worried we can't compete with expensive superstars eating up too big a share of our budget space.

If Sens decide to win by committee and team depth, what good pieces would you offer up for the #3 and/or #5 picks?
Needs to be youth, picks or cost controlled assets.

Ehlers, 2020 1st and 2020 1st?

 

[dumbdick]

Ehlers, 2020 1st and 2020 1st?

It's in the ballpark for 5OA I think provided there's no lottery protection on the 2021 1st. That said, I'm not 100% familiar with how well Ehlers is living up to his contract.

 

[dumbdick]

How many contract spots do we have?

I'm committed to making it work.