Hedberg16 said:I thought being a prospect was about potential, not current ability?
(This is the who's the second best goalie not in the NHL thread)
Patrick - Flames Fan said:That is a fairly weak arguement. That is like saying AO or Malkin shouldn't be highly regarded because while they are amazing in Europe (just like Lundqvist) they haven't played in the AHL, so they aren't highly rated in your books.
DoobieDoobieDo said:I'm going to tackle both issues at once:
First off, Lundqvist has risen in my books but I'm still cautious about penciling him in over some other goaltenders that have already established their careers in NA. They have a leg up on Lundqvist but I think Lundqvist is going to be a solid goaltender when it's all said and done. He is coming over, I know and once he does, I'll grade him appropriately. Right now Toivonen, Lehtonen, Niittymaki are definitely higher than him, Ward is mixed but I would rate him high, and maybe, MAYBE MAF but I'm worried about MAF and his development. At worst, I think Lundqvist would drop out of the top 5 and be around 6-7...
1) Toivonen
2) Lehtonen
3) Niittymaki
In truth all three goaltenders can be switched around
4) MAF (on potential)
5) Ward
6) Lundqvist
Secondly, Brodeur has proven OVER and OVER again he's a solid goaltender in the NHL. Lundqvist has only proven he's a solid goaltender in the SEL. Which one would you take?
MojoJojo said:And how is potential about who is the second best goalie not in the NHL? MAF is no where near the second best goalie not in the NHL.
NYRGoalieGlut said:What the hell is wrong with you? You're an Islanders fan and thus MUST act accordingly and say that Lundqvist sucks, just like Rangers fans trash/trashed Dipietro. Anyway I think that Fleury is definately ahead of Lundqvist as he at least played in NA. For some reason I understood this thread to mean from Europe, I guess I was wrong.
You meant to say led the AHL in save percentage, was among the best in GAA and racked up quite a few wins even though he was a ROOKIE and had Krahn, not so bad himself, as a second netminder in the team. He posted better stats in his first season than Toivonen did in his (or this one for a matter of fact) and Lehtonen (pretty equal this season). He dominated everywhere he played, while Fleury got his shine after the WJC, but after was fairly average. My pick as second best is Ward, with Toivonen not far behind. Fleury has things to prove before being considered a top 5. "Potential" doesn't cut it. He has plenty, but I see him as a boom or bust kind of guy.DoobieDoobieDo said:Ward is underrated IMO. He came into the AHL really low-radar on a questionable Lowell Lock Monster's team and posted some very, very good numbers on what looks like a weak team. I think part of the reason Lowell did good is because of Ward...
He saw over 1400 shots putting him around 10th overall for shots seen and still put some good numbers up.
Right now I would put him over Lundqvist because he's proven and he's on a weak Lowell team.
freakazoid said:You meant to say led the AHL in save percentage, was among the best in GAA and racked up quite a few wins even though he was a ROOKIE and had Krahn, not so bad himself, as a second netminder in the team. He posted better stats in his first season than Toivonen did in his (or this one for a matter of fact) and Lehtonen (pretty equal this season). He dominated everywhere he played, while Fleury got his shine after the WJC, but after was fairly average. My pick as second best is Ward, with Toivonen not far behind. Fleury has things to prove before being considered a top 5. "Potential" doesn't cut it. He has plenty, but I see him as a boom or bust kind of guy.
Excluding the first two months in the NHL, obviously.but after was fairly average.
Handsome B. Wonderful said:ummmm...Fleury...easily.
Agreed! He seems to have all the tools, but as we've seen countless times in the past, European goalies need time to adjust and while he is impressive, I will wait to see how he does in the bigs. Lehtonen is a clear cut #1, with Toivenen a close second.DoobieDoobieDo said:Until Lundqvist comes over and plays in the AHL, he isn't rated very highly in my books...Top 10 sure but...
Big Phil said:I think Fleury is right in the #2 spot. Kari is #1 for now but dont be surprised if Fleury passes him and becomes the better goalie. Remember before the 2004 WJC everyone thought Fleury would be great. But one blunder and he's not all of a sudden? Come on. He outlayed Kari by a mile in the '03 WJC. So for me its Fleury at #2 and he shouldnt be too far behind #1.
It is hard to compare Lundqvist to Toivonen or MAF right now, and he may not be as good, but Lundqvist > Tellqvist, no doubt about it.Minnesota Norse Star said:Lundquist = Tellquist .... essentially
I am as a big Niittymäki and TPS fan as there is... But Niittymäki won't ever make it as a starter unless he has a strong backup. These other guys have the potential to be lone starters.big_steve said:Pardon my language but this is a dilly of a pickle, for me anyway. Hmm..........let me think:
1. Kari Lehtonen
2. Hannu Toivonen
3. Antero Niittymaki
4. Marc-Andre Fleury/Cam Ward(not sure who to go with here)
6. Henrik Lundqvist(wasn't that great at WHC & hasn't played on NA ice but has played great in the SEL, I feel this is an appropriate ranking)
IMO, as an NHLer, MA Fleury will either be in the top of that list (or second) or the very bottom.