2nd best goalie prospect in the world?

Status
Not open for further replies.

paxtang

Registered User
May 1, 2003
2,242
0
Harrisburg
mattihp said:
I am as a big Niittymäki and TPS fan as there is... But Niittymäki won't ever make it as a starter unless he has a strong backup. These other guys have the potential to be lone starters.

Explain.
 

f1nn

Registered User
Jan 12, 2004
2,993
150
Espoo, Finland
big_steve said:
Pardon my language but this is a dilly of a pickle, for me anyway. Hmm..........let me think:
1. Kari Lehtonen
2. Hannu Toivonen
3. Antero Niittymaki
4. Marc-Andre Fleury/Cam Ward(not sure who to go with here)
6. Henrik Lundqvist(wasn't that great at WHC & hasn't played on NA ice but has played great in the SEL, I feel this is an appropriate ranking)

IMO, as an NHLer, MA Fleury will either be in the top of that list (or second) or the very bottom.

I agree
 

MojoJojo

Registered User
Jan 31, 2003
9,353
0
Philadelphia
Visit site
007 said:
It is hard to compare Lundqvist to Toivonen or MAF right now, and he may not be as good, but Lundqvist > Tellqvist, no doubt about it.

Personally, I'm surprised with Niittymäki: I haven't seen him play in a long time, but I always thought he looked so small playing deep in the net. I thought he might go the way of Jarmo Myllys.

Nitty has become a lot more aggressive, and challenges the shooter much more. He is a small goalie though, thats his biggest weakness. He makes up for it by coming out of the net and using his quick glove hand and fast side to side motion.
 

Ola

Registered User
Apr 10, 2004
34,597
11,595
Sweden
I've seen allot of Toivonen and Nittymäki and IMO they aren't even close to Lundqvist. They are good prospects, Toivonen a better one then Nittymäki IMO, but neither have the same potential as Lundqvist. Henrik have the potential to become the best in the game. He had a weak WCH, and that shows that he isn't their yet. But you have to remember that it probably where the best WCH ever played and that Lundqvist didn't get much help from his defense. He also had won a championship in the SEL only two weeks before the WCH and had played 70+ games that season already and he is still really young.

Also some people talk about him not having player in NA as a negative thing, I can't understand that. NA is the ultimate challenge for a goaltender. For Lundqvist to beeing able to develop his game as much as he have without having played in NA yet is fantastic. He is so much better now then a bunch of experienced starters in the NHL. Toivonen and Nittymäki are standouts right now but you have to remember that its in the AHL. The talent level their isn't on the same planet as the one in the WCH and SEL. Lundqvist also made the 1st allstar team last year in a really good WCH. There have been allot of hype on Lundqvist lately, but I belive people will be suprised next year at how good he really is.
 

FlyersFan10*

Guest
Hedberg16 said:
There should be no debate. Marc-Andre Fleury is the second best goalie PROSPECT in the world

No, he isn't. Far from it. Niitymaki and Toivenen are far superior to Marc-Andre Fleury. Actually, I'd say that Andy Chiodo has to be put ahead on the depth chart in Pittsburgh. When you consider that it was Chiodo who carried the baby Pens in the playoffs as far as they did, that man should be saluted.

Hedberg16 said:
Marc-Andre Fleury may not be a better goalie than Lundqvist now, but he is definately the number 2 goalie prospect in the world.
\

Once again, no he isn't. Niitymaki and Toivenen are way ahead of Fleury on the prospect charts. Let's face the facts. The Finns are now producing the top goalie prospects and Niitymaki and Toivenen are just two of the three top goalie prospects in the game right now.

As for Fleury, it's like he never recovered from the gold medal game back in 2004. The man fell apart when his team needed him. They spotted him a huge lead to work with and he blew it. No other kinder way to put it. He's got to get his mental sharpness back again. I think there is a confidence issue with Fleury right now and it's something that the coaching staff are going to have to try to straighten out.

Until his confidence issues are resolved, then Fleury shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Niitymaki, Toivenen or Lehtonen.
 

God Bless Canada

Registered User
Jul 11, 2004
11,793
17
Bentley reunion
One thing to remember about Niittymaki: he's 25. He's not a 21-year-old excelling in the AHL. Ward, Harding and Toivonen are. That's why I don't have Niittymaki as high as some.
 

paxtang

Registered User
May 1, 2003
2,242
0
Harrisburg
God Bless Canada said:
One thing to remember about Niittymaki: he's 25. He's not a 21-year-old excelling in the AHL. Ward, Harding and Toivonen are. That's why I don't have Niittymaki as high as some.

But Nitty was good last year, and he was good in Finland. He's had one bad year so far.
 

Big McLargehuge

Fragile Traveler
May 9, 2002
72,188
7,741
S. Pasadena, CA
FlyersFan10 said:
No, he isn't. Far from it. Niitymaki and Toivenen are far superior to Marc-Andre Fleury. Actually, I'd say that Andy Chiodo has to be put ahead on the depth chart in Pittsburgh. When you consider that it was Chiodo who carried the baby Pens in the playoffs as far as they did, that man should be saluted.

:biglaugh:
 

mattihp

Registered User
Aug 2, 2004
20,421
2,905
Uppsala, Sweden
paxtang said:
He excels when he has the confidence that there's someone to back him up. On TPS he was always in a combo with another great goalie in Norrena, and they complemented each other very well, taking turns in being the starter. Niittymäki will be awesome against some teams, but not so good against gritty teams where they'll try to play the puck in close. It is good to have a security man with Niitty.
 

Habsfan 32

Registered User
Aug 18, 2004
6,316
2
Way up north...
FlyersFan10 said:
No, he isn't. Far from it. Niitymaki and Toivenen are far superior to Marc-Andre Fleury. Actually, I'd say that Andy Chiodo has to be put ahead on the depth chart in Pittsburgh. When you consider that it was Chiodo who carried the baby Pens in the playoffs as far as they did, that man should be saluted.

I don't think Chiodo is ahead of Fleury my friend. I mean Chiodo is a great goaltending prospect and I really like him but he's not better then Fleury. Fleury has the potential to be the best goalie in the world and Chiodo will likely be traded and become a good number one goalie.
 

faucon

Registered User
May 11, 2005
59
0
Ola said:
I've seen allot of Toivonen and Nittymäki and IMO they aren't even close to Lundqvist. They are good prospects, Toivonen a better one then Nittymäki IMO, but neither have the same potential as Lundqvist. Henrik have the potential to become the best in the game. He had a weak WCH, and that shows that he isn't their yet. But you have to remember that it probably where the best WCH ever played and that Lundqvist didn't get much help from his defense. He also had won a championship in the SEL only two weeks before the WCH and had played 70+ games that season already and he is still really young.

Also some people talk about him not having player in NA as a negative thing, I can't understand that. NA is the ultimate challenge for a goaltender. For Lundqvist to beeing able to develop his game as much as he have without having played in NA yet is fantastic. He is so much better now then a bunch of experienced starters in the NHL. Toivonen and Nittymäki are standouts right now but you have to remember that its in the AHL. The talent level their isn't on the same planet as the one in the WCH and SEL. Lundqvist also made the 1st allstar team last year in a really good WCH. There have been allot of hype on Lundqvist lately, but I belive people will be suprised next year at how good he really is.

:clap:

2nd best goalie prospect in the world : Lundqvist. Next year ... you'll see.

My opinion about Fleury ... this guy is overrated.
 

Le Golie

...
Jul 4, 2002
8,541
464
Chiodo ahead of Fleury.....classic. :biglaugh:

Some people have a very difficult time with 'potential' and being able to identify player ceilings.
 

paxtang

Registered User
May 1, 2003
2,242
0
Harrisburg
sevenSteen said:
Yes, but he's 25.

You missed the point. He was a solid goaltending prospect when he was 21 as well. Just because he's older and has progressed doesn't make him a lesser prospect, it just makes him more advanced.

mattihp: I haven't seen any problem with Nitty and gritty teams. He played the majority of games this year, with Little getting very few games.
 

SwisshockeyAcademy

Registered User
Dec 11, 2002
3,094
1
Visit site
Le Golie said:
Chiodo ahead of Fleury.....classic. :biglaugh:

Some people have a very difficult time with 'potential' and being able to identify player ceilings.
Fleury still has some things to figure out but the new regulations on equipment make him even more of a prospect than he already was. Chiodo has done a nice job but he is more likely to be in the ECHL when Fleury takes over for Pittsburgh in two to three years. I really like Toivonen and Lehtonen for the same reason i like Fleury. Breathtaking quickness and agility. Such quick legs.
 

MojoJojo

Registered User
Jan 31, 2003
9,353
0
Philadelphia
Visit site
DoobieDoobieDo said:
The keyword is POTENTIAL.

I think likelihood to reach that potential should be takn into consideration as well. When he was drafted, MAC had more potential than any other goaltender (including Lehtonen), but he's starting to look like a head case. Inconsistent, melts down in big games, quite often very sloppy. His reflexes are world class, but on balance theres more to ranking a prospect. O'sullivan, and Kostitsyn for example have as much potential as any forwards in the 03 draft, but fell due to concerns about their health and attitude. I seen no reason not to apply the same logic to goal tenders. Having seen MAC stink up the joint to high heaven (as well as that first NHL game Vs LA when he stopped like 50 shots), I have to rank him lower than #2, much lower.

Partially the blame goes to the Penguins organization BTW, for not having a goalie coach. What a waste of talent to draft this guy at #1 and then let him drift through the AHL on his own.
 

mattihp

Registered User
Aug 2, 2004
20,421
2,905
Uppsala, Sweden
MojoJojo said:
I think likelihood to reach that potential should be takn into consideration as well. When he was drafted, MAC had more potential than any other goaltender (including Lehtonen), but he's starting to look like a head case. Inconsistent, melts down in big games, quite often very sloppy. His reflexes are world class, but on balance theres more to ranking a prospect. O'sullivan, and Kostitsyn for example have as much potential as anyone in the 03 draft, but fell due to concerns about their health and attitude. I seen no reason not to apply the same logic to goal tenders. Having seen MAC stink up the joint to high heaven (as well as that first NHL game Vs LA when he stopped like 50 shots), I have to rank him lower than #2, much lower.

Partially the blame goes to the Penguins organization BTW, for not having a goalie coach. What a waste of talent to draft this guy at #1 and then let him drift through the AHL on his own.
Point is that a great goalie can develop all through his career too..
 

Til the End of Time

Registered User
May 18, 2003
7,853
1
Santa Monica, CA
Visit site
The moral of the story is that the Penguins should be contracted if they continue to mess up the development of Fleury.

It has been said that the Penguins are going to get a goalie coach once the lockout is over. Hopefully this shall come to pass, or this franchise is hopeless.
 

f1nn

Registered User
Jan 12, 2004
2,993
150
Espoo, Finland
Ola said:
I've seen allot of Toivonen and Nittymäki and IMO they aren't even close to Lundqvist. They are good prospects, Toivonen a better one then Nittymäki IMO, but neither have the same potential as Lundqvist. Henrik have the potential to become the best in the game. He had a weak WCH, and that shows that he isn't their yet. But you have to remember that it probably where the best WCH ever played and that Lundqvist didn't get much help from his defense. He also had won a championship in the SEL only two weeks before the WCH and had played 70+ games that season already and he is still really young.

Also some people talk about him not having player in NA as a negative thing, I can't understand that. NA is the ultimate challenge for a goaltender. For Lundqvist to beeing able to develop his game as much as he have without having played in NA yet is fantastic. He is so much better now then a bunch of experienced starters in the NHL. Toivonen and Nittymäki are standouts right now but you have to remember that its in the AHL. The talent level their isn't on the same planet as the one in the WCH and SEL. Lundqvist also made the 1st allstar team last year in a really good WCH. There have been allot of hype on Lundqvist lately, but I belive people will be suprised next year at how good he really is.

You are kidding right? that was nowhere near the best WCH ever played...
 

Jacob

as seen on TV
Feb 27, 2002
49,341
24,731
MojoJojo said:
I think likelihood to reach that potential should be takn into consideration as well. When he was drafted, MAC had more potential than any other goaltender (including Lehtonen), but he's starting to look like a head case. Inconsistent, melts down in big games, quite often very sloppy. His reflexes are world class, but on balance theres more to ranking a prospect. O'sullivan, and Kostitsyn for example have as much potential as any forwards in the 03 draft, but fell due to concerns about their health and attitude. I seen no reason not to apply the same logic to goal tenders. Having seen MAC stink up the joint to high heaven (as well as that first NHL game Vs LA when he stopped like 50 shots), I have to rank him lower than #2, much lower.

Partially the blame goes to the Penguins organization BTW, for not having a goalie coach. What a waste of talent to draft this guy at #1 and then let him drift through the AHL on his own.
They had Lorne Molleken who worked with the goaltenders in practice in the NHL, and they have both Gilles Meloche and Gilles Lefebvre as part-time goalie coach and goaltending consultant, respectively, in the AHL.

I'm assuming of course that MAC is somehow referring to Fleury.
 
Last edited:

Hunter Gathers

The Crown
Feb 27, 2002
106,463
11,444
parts unknown
DoobieDoobieDo said:
The keyword is POTENTIAL.

YES. AND THAT'S WHAT YOU RANK PROSPECTS ON.

I have NO idea what you use as your ranking system, but I use potential and their play in their leagues. What else do you want to use to rank with??
 

jb**

Guest
JR#9 said:
All the Pens fans will say Fluery, all the B's fans will say Hannu and all the NYR fans will say Lundquist.

Miller IMO is too old for this group.
As a Flyers fan I say Nittimaki, has played I say pretty well in his second year in the AHL, probably fluery though
 

NYRangers

Registered User
Aug 11, 2004
2,850
0
Gotta love it.

A couple of months ago everyone was going nuts over Lundqvist, and a few smartly said, "whats with the sudden love for Lundqvist?".

Now look at Ward.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->