Post-Game Talk: #29: Coyotes at FLYERS, Thursday, Dec. 5, 2019, 7:00 pm ET

[tictactoe]

I did mention the U.S. Olympics team.

OI give up.. Yotes next SC winner..

 

[DancingPanther]

Just f***ing bury the puck you imbeciles

And move your f***ing feet on the powerplay. Don't listen to the fat canadian

 

[Rebels57]

Kuemper made 1 tough save all game.

Now I understand why his Spctg is so high with how they play.

 

[Beef Invictus]

PP in the flesh:

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

OI give up.. Yotes next SC winner..

No need to surrender. You have the odds in your favor as them winning isn't the likeliest of possibilities. I am just playing on the fact that a former Flyers' tough guy won the Cup last year with a franchise that was winless in its lengthy history and now Arizona is a first place club as of tonight with another former Flyers' player leading the way. It was said mostly in jest which is why I mentioned Dave Brown but also it wouldn't surprise me either. And I too will play the role of Roberto Duran and say "No mas."

 

[Jtown]

Ok I must be an idiot Jake said what I've said all year about the PP.

what did you/ jake say?

 

[wankstifier]

So many insanely stupid coaching decisions tonight. Truly remarkable.

-11 forwards, 7 D is never acceptable when you have a 12 forward and the 7th D is Hagg.
-Giroux being put on the right side of the PP yet again, in addition to the other standard idiotic PP decisions like having Provorov on PP1 and Ghost on PP2
-Benching Frost and putting JVR then Hayes on the top line instead is crazy stupid
-Defensemen usage, as always


Players mess up, like goaltending mistakes, defensive lapses, turnovers, over-passing, missing shots, and so on, but those are completely unavoidable and will always happen, no matter what, to every single player. What is avoidable are coaching mistakes that can be fixed with the snap of their fingers.

We may have been the better team tonight, but we lost and who knows if fixing any of these preventable mistakes could've made the whole difference.

*Disclaimer - this doesn't mean the loss was 100% the coaches fault. Nobody is saying that. But they did a LOT wrong*

I was about to give Vigneault some credit for pulling the goalie to get the lone goal, but he backed off on the pressure. They had another shot down 1, but somehow that was too risky with short time.

 

[Rebels57]

No need to surrender. You have the odds in your favor as them winning isn't the likeliest of possibilities. I am just playing on the fact that a former Flyers' tough guy won the Cup last year with a franchise that was winless in its lengthy history and now Arizona is a first place club as of tonight with another former Flyers' player leading the way. It was said mostly in jest which is why I mentioned Dave Brown but also it wouldn't surprise me either. And I too will play the role of Roberto Duran and say "No mas."

This Coyotes team is a pile of trash. Once they have a big target on them teams will figure out a way through the swamp and slap them back down in the standings where they belong.

 

[Stizzle]

The pimp played tonight?

No, I was just making a point that he could have helped tonight. Arizona kept us to the outside, and he's a good playmaker from the boards.

 

[dragonoffrost]

what did you/ jake say?

Players need to learn what to do in that alignment

 

[Rebels57]

No, I was just making a point that he could have helped tonight. Arizona kept us to the outside, and he's a good playmaker from the boards.

Yeah they better go back to 12-6 and dress Misha next game.

 

[Striiker]

Just for sh*ts and giggles, lets look at the some stats IN A GAME WHERE WE NEVER HAD THE LEAD

Defensemens 5v5 icetime
Sanheim - 17:34
Provorov - 16:52
Niskanen - 14:24
Braun - 14:18
Myers - 13:07
Ghost - 11:00
Hagg - 7:43

Ridiculous. Now you may be thinking "But Striiker, you idiot, maybe Ghost had a bad game?!".
Eye test? Absolutely not, he looked great again in all 3 zones. What do the stats say? Well let's take a looksee...

AVs bottom pair rotation...

5v5 CF%
Ghost: 63.64
Myers: 42.86
Hagg: 20.00

5v5 CF%rel
Ghost: 3.07
Myers: -21.85
Hagg: -46.67

5v5 xGF%
Ghost: 66.01
Myers: 29.02
Hagg: 19.09

5v5 xGF%rel
Ghost: 8.51
Myers: -32.24
Hagg: -41.97

Which forwards did Ghost play the most with? The Hayes line, of course!

Laughton-Hayes-Farabee, as a line:
CF%: 37.50
CF%rel: -29.17
xGF%: 29.15
xGF%rel: -34.10

This is a defensemen who just last game had one of the best games, from any of our D, and then the coaches randomly decide to dress 7 D, bury him, use him with a crap line the most, and not even throw him out at the end of the game when they pulled the goalie. What a joke.
------------------------------------

OK, forget the defensemen, lets take a look at how bad Frost must have been to get benched with the game on the line in the 3rd, and only play 11:31 at 5v5.
Again, eye test says good (except for on the PP), so what do the stats say?

Frost
CF%: 75.00
CF%rel: 19.83
xGF%: 60.30
xGF%rel: 3.18

And the Giroux-Frost-TK line as a whole?

CF%: 80.95 (best on team)
CF%rel: 26.85 (best on team)
xGF%: 82.55 (best on team)
xGF%rel: 28.71 (best on team)

That looks like a line that definitely needed to be split up!

But hey, what do I know, I'm just a fan! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

--------------------------------

Which forwards played the most?

At 5v5
Hayes: 15:43
Laughton: 15:28
Giroux: 14:58
Couturier: 14:45

Obviously dumb. Do the stats back that up?

CF%
Hayes: 48.15
Laughton: 30.77
Giroux: 75.00
Couturier: 69.57

CF%rel
Hayes: -19.12
Laughton: -44.23
Giroux: 21.30
Couturier: 11.94

xGF%
Hayes: 46.01
Laughton: 18.63
Giroux: 83.98
Couturier: 69.87

xGF%rel
Hayes: -16.57
Laughton: -63.62
Giroux: 33.93
Couturier: 18.71

So what's my point here? That these are all things that 90% of this board could have said were terrible ideas before they even happened... and they went awful. The coaches can't keep screwing up like this because these should be layup decisions. If they cant get these right then how can anyone trust them to get tough decisions right?

 

[FLYguy3911]

Frost will be the PP scapegoat for now. Maybe they'll go with 3F and 2D on both units.

 

[pit]

PP in the flesh:

If that's your PP, you should get to a doctor asap.

 

[Ginger Papa]

PP in the flesh:

After seeing a few of your posts like the one above I have to ask:

If you know, please let me know, because I'm kind of a twisted f*ck too

 

[bauer]

PP in the flesh:

​

 

[Ginger Papa]

Just ****ing bury the puck you imbeciles

And move your ****ing feet on the powerplay. Don't listen to the fat canadian

I am Canadian but I take no offense because I understand you are referring to a specific Canadian and you are giving sound advice IMHO. I take nothing personally in this case as I can relate to you my American friend:

Alain, get another voice to run the Power Play Units!

 

[deadhead]

Frustrating game, but nothing to get overly excited about. Like I said pre-game, Zona is Islanders west. Flyers struggle with this kind of game.

Don't think Hagg's 7:43 was the reason they lost.
Do think Elliott's lame attempt on the 1st goal was a big reason, and his lack of balance to recover on the 2nd goal didn't help.
OEL may have dived, but Hayes should know better, no reason for the cross check in that situation.

Farabee is looking a bit like Lindblom a year ago, making plays but not finishing them.
Frost was not a factor, these are the kinds of teams he has to learn to handle, skated around but never really completed anything.
Giroux's first penalty was marginal, the second was stupid.
Voracek is fumbling the puck a lot this year, what's with that? Used to be one of his strong points.

Mama said there'll be days like this
There'll be days like this mama said

 

[Flyer lurker]

Frustrating game, but nothing to get overly excited about. Like I said pre-game, Zona is Islanders west. Flyers struggle with this kind of game.

Don't think Hagg's 7:43 was the reason they lost.
Do think Elliott's lame attempt on the 1st goal was a big reason, and his lack of balance to recover on the 2nd goal didn't help.
OEL may have dived, but Hayes should know better, no reason for the cross check in that situation.

Farabee is looking a bit like Lindblom a year ago, making plays but not finishing them.
Frost was not a factor, these are the kinds of teams he has to learn to handle, skated around but never really completed anything.
Giroux's first penalty was marginal, the second was stupid.
Voracek is fumbling the puck a lot this year, what's with that? Used to be one of his strong points.

Mama said there'll be days like this
There'll be days like this mama said

Clearly its Hagg's fault because he must have been on the ice 60 minutes and and he must have been on the power play the whole time. Hagg wasn't good, and I don't like 7d strategy. But we are not built to win 1-0 2-1 and will have issues against those teams if we don't get a lead early. Kuemper was not great. It was our shots were outside, non-screen shots far too often. JVR unless we are up 5-1 has done nothing in a month. Voracek tonight was coasting Jake again. Frost is pressing and shooting wide/high on what should be quality opportunities. We are unable to attack the opponents blue lines with control. Not end of world but Yotes feel like bad matchup for us. Glad they are out west.

 

[kudymen]

I’m not going to say that was the most boring game I’ve watched in a while as the Flyers have given a lot of examples there over the years but that was really brutal.

I'm pretty sure every other Coyotes team meeting ends with the following dialogue:

"That was brutal to watch, do we want to keep playing like that?"
"Meh, at least we ain't Hakstok"

 

[OzFlyers]

Yep, just take care of the Sens Sunday.

 

[Harhis]

Frustrating game, but nothing to get overly excited about. Like I said pre-game, Zona is Islanders west. Flyers struggle with this kind of game.

Don't think Hagg's 7:43 was the reason they lost.
Do think Elliott's lame attempt on the 1st goal was a big reason, and his lack of balance to recover on the 2nd goal didn't help.
OEL may have dived, but Hayes should know better, no reason for the cross check in that situation.

Farabee is looking a bit like Lindblom a year ago, making plays but not finishing them.
Frost was not a factor, these are the kinds of teams he has to learn to handle, skated around but never really completed anything.
Giroux's first penalty was marginal, the second was stupid.
Voracek is fumbling the puck a lot this year, what's with that? Used to be one of his strong points.

Mama said there'll be days like this
There'll be days like this mama said

May not be the reason they lost, but isn't it stupid to volyntarily play 4vs5 for 7:43? He was horrible, again.

 

[Mike2000z28]

I felt like I already knew the outcome. It reminds me when we go play in florida and collectively we say well that's gonna be a loss. We have always seemed to struggle against the coyotes going by the eye test. Regardless of who's on the team, it feels like they are in our head.

 

[OzFlyers]

I felt like I already knew the outcome. It reminds me when we go play in florida and collectively we say well that's gonna be a loss. We have always seemed to struggle against the coyotes going by the eye test. Regardless of who's on the team, it feels like they are in our head.

Coyotes are playing well. First in the Pacific and just behind the Flyers in point %.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

PP is struggling.

But G JVR TK Frost Provy with G on left wall, it’s not like we are rolling out slop.

Then Couts Ghost Jake Nisky Oskar

Players need to take some of the blame all I’m saying

Yeah, I hate entirely blaming the coaches. But with the way nobody gets open in high danger areas on either unit it feels more like a systems issue. Our PP still looks very stationary, we have enough puck movers on each unit that we should be a threat to make good passes to cutting players from anywhere on the perimeter, but instead settle for constantly rotating the puck around the outside.

Have Frost cut to the corner for G to dish to down low, then have G cut to the center as Provorov cuts towards the half wall for the one timer, just simple little things like that never seem to be happening.