Rumor: 2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Thread: Post Deadline

[CobraAcesS]

I’d argue G is a very big part of the identity of this generation of Avs.

Not with him sitting in the press box for our cup win he isn't, and then also having times he hasn't lived up to his contract.

Again, I really think the playoffs will shake out some of these decisions in the end.

I'm not against keeping G, letting Walker go, and trading Manson then trying to replace him in the top four. I just think it will be much more difficult to find a #4RD to pair with Girard, than it would to find a #4LD to pair with Walker.

 

[henchman21]

Part of it was IMO putting Byram in the right position to succeed. It wasn’t just all on Byram.

Byram was given a lot of opportunities over the years and never held onto the roles. G and Manson got pushed down a lot of Byram. Even Toews got pushed down at times. He just never seized those opportunities. Which, IMO, was caused by Byram’s inability to play a two way game consistently. He could do offense or defense, but never both. And when he went offense, his defense was abysmal and completely untrustworthy for coaches.

We could talk about lots of blame to go around, but he had plenty of opportunities.

Not with him sitting in the press box for our cup win he isn't, and then also having times he hasn't lived up to his contract.

Again, I really think the playoffs will shake out some of these decisions in the end.

I'm not against keeping G, letting Walker go, and trading Manson then trying to replace him in the top four. I just think it will be much more difficult to find a #4RD to pair with Girard, than it would to find a #4LD to pair with Walker.

G has been a core part of the defense since the Avs turned the ship around and a big part of that turn around. He’s one of the longest tenured on the team and done it in a top 4 role.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Byram was given a lot of opportunities over the years and never held onto the roles. G and Manson got pushed down a lot of Byram. Even Toews got pushed down at times. He just never seized those opportunities. Which, IMO, was caused by Byram’s inability to play a two way game consistently. He could do offense or defense, but never both. And when he went offense, his defense was abysmal and completely untrustworthy for coaches.

We could talk about lots of blame to go around, but he had plenty of opportunities.


G has been a core part of the defense since the Avs turned the ship around and a big part of that turn around. He’s one of the longest tenured on the team and done it in a top 4 role.

He's been important. No denying that.

He's just more difficult to find a partner for than Waller IMO.

A lot of this stems from me not trusting Manson enough for next year, but highly valuing him as well. I think you have to replace what he brings in a player who can give you top four minutes reliably. There are different ways to skin the cat though.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

For asset management you trade Manson. You get nothing letting Walker walk. Manson being a physical RHD with 2 more years on his contract can probably get you a 1sr Rd pick back or a very good prospect. Then find his replacement at the TDL with that asset. You are back to 5 top-4 dmen without spending any of your own assets.

 

[henchman21]

He's been important. No denying that.

He's just more difficult to find a partner for than Waller IMO.

A lot of this stems from me not trusting Manson enough for next year, but highly valuing him as well. I think you have to replace what he brings in a player who can give you top four minutes reliably. There are different ways to skin the cat though.

I get not trusting Manson and moving on there. What I don’t get is depleting the defense further. Seems like a very un Avs move who have been very reluctant to pull from that depth. To the point they had to have a replacement lined up to move one.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I hate to say this with the way that Manson is playing and fully acknowledging the absolute need to have a dman playing his style... but, the Avs identity is offense from the blueline forward. The best structure moving forward would probably be:

Toews-Makar
Girard-X
X-Walker

Where hopefully you can get rather cheap defensive dmen to fill in the X spot and use the bottom 4 equally at even strength.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Let's be honest.. it's more likely Walker just leaves as a pricey UFA, we keep the top 4 that are all under contract, and the organization lets Malinski try to be the Walker-lite 3RHD.

 

[henchman21]

I hate to say this with the way that Manson is playing and fully acknowledging the absolute need to have a dman playing his style... but, the Avs identity is offense from the blueline forward. The best structure moving forward would probably be:

Toews-Makar
Girard-X
X-Walker

Where hopefully you can get rather cheap defensive dmen to fill in the X spot and use the bottom 4 equally at even strength.

I’d probably say you roll with Walker on the middle pairing until the deadline… then cough up a 26 first for Larsson.

Let's be honest.. it's more likely Walker just leaves as a pricey UFA, we keep the top 4 that are all under contract, and the organization lets Malinski try to be the 3RHD and Walker-lite.

Yeah Id say that is the most realistic outcome. Comes down to money… if you get Walker for 4.5 or less, then you move Manson. If he costs 5+ you simply move on.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I’d probably say you roll with Walker on the middle pairing until the deadline… then cough up a 26 first for Larsson.


Yeah Id say that is the most realistic outcome. Comes down to money… if you get Walker for 4.5 or less, then you move Manson. If he costs 5+ you simply move on.

That works too.

I just know that Bednar would be happier with a bottom four that consists of Girard AND Walker rather Girard OR Walker. If we can't find two good cheap guys to pair with each during the bargain bin UFA period, training camp PTOs, and waiver claim frenzy I'm fine with a regular season Girard-Walker pairing but these guys will definitely suffer burnout during the regular season as I just can't see the 3rd pair being worth a shit. Just how many minutes a night is Bednar going to give JMFJ-Malinski while trying to win each game like it's game 7 of the SCF because he knows no other way and the players don't either.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I hate to say this with the way that Manson is playing and fully acknowledging the absolute need to have a dman playing his style... but, the Avs identity is offense from the blueline forward. The best structure moving forward would probably be:

Toews-Makar
Girard-X
X-Walker

Where hopefully you can get rather cheap defensive dmen to fill in the X spot and use the bottom 4 equally at even strength.

Let's be honest.. it's more likely Walker just leaves as a pricey UFA, we keep the top 4 that are all under contract, and the organization lets Malinski try to be the Walker-lite 3RHD.

I’d probably say you roll with Walker on the middle pairing until the deadline… then cough up a 26 first for Larsson.


Yeah Id say that is the most realistic outcome. Comes down to money… if you get Walker for 4.5 or less, then you move Manson. If he costs 5+ you simply move on.

I've thought about that whole three puck movers thing, but I struggle to see how we afford it. No I don't think they trade Lehkky, or Mikko unless he actually won't sign for the same or less than Mack.

#1 I don't trust Manson to be Manson next year.

#2 I don't trust G in the playoffs. I can't get beyond that until he proves otherwise.

That works too.

I just know that Bednar would be happier with a bottom four that consists of Girard AND Walker rather Girard OR Walker. If we can't find two good cheap guys to pair with each during the bargain bin UFA period, training camp PTOs, and waiver claim frenzy I'm fine with a regular season Girard-Walker pairing but these guys will definitely suffer burnout during the regular season as I just can't see the 3rd pair being worth a shit. Just how many minutes a night is Bednar going to give JMFJ-Malinski while trying to win each game like it's game 7 of the SCF because he knows no other way and the players don't either.

There will be some kind of weakness going into next season. Pick your poison.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I've thought about that whole three puck movers thing, but I struggle to see how we afford it. No I don't think they trade Lehkky, or Mikko unless he actually won't sign for the same or less than Mack.



There will be some kind of weakness going into next season. Pick your poison.

Definitely. We've all been talking about the impending crunch that comes with paying all your top guys top dollar which was exacerbated by a flat cap for what feels like half a decade. Burakovsky was a merely a flesh wound. This summer is going to hurt. The raise to Toews combined with having to add 6.5Mish for Mitts eats up all of the first cap raise and then some. This is the summer of pain and why I am so deeply appreciative of the extra depth that CMac went and got us at the deadline. I have a feeling next season will be similar to last. Hopefully not because of injuries but just a team that's not got all the parts and pieces. Basically a wasted year as we adjust to a new salary cap structure. Not sure there'll be enough left in the tank for the top guys once Spring arrives as they'll have been overplayed since early October.

Don't mean to sound so negative about next season, especially since we'll be the defending Cup champs. I wish they would allow the defending cup champs a one year +5M to their cap. Maybe Joe and Josh can bring that up at the next Board of Governers/Presidents shin-dig.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Definitely. We've all been talking about the impending crunch that comes with paying all your top guys top dollar which was exacerbated by a flat cap for what feels like half a decade. Burakovsky was a merely a flesh wound. This summer is going to hurt. The raise to Toews combined with having to add 6.5Mish for Mitts eats up all of the first cap raise and then some. This is the summer of pain and why I am so deeply appreciative of the extra depth that CMac went and got us at the deadline. I have a feeling next season will be similar to last. Hopefully not because of injuries but just a team that's not got all the parts and pieces. Basically a wasted year as we adjust to a new salary cap structure. Not sure there'll be enough left in the tank for the top guys once Spring arrives as they'll have been overplayed since early October.

Don't mean to sound so negative about next season, especially since we'll be the defending Cup champs. I wish they would allow the defending cup champs a one year +5M to their cap. Maybe Joe and Josh can bring that up at the next Board of Governers/Presidents shin-dig.

I just really like our chances of filling in the depth with a balanced roster, and the most important roster spots filled going into next year.

My roster has flexibility to actually bank cap space with both Landy, and Mikko, as well as Lehky still on the team, and the #3D, and #4D spots filled.

I guess I should add Colton, since he's been brought up.

Love Drouin, but if he won't take a cheap deal for one more year, and Landy returns he is the Bura player. The luxury top six winger you add at the TDL.

Would I trade Mikko, keep Drouin, and have more flexibility, maybe, if his contract demands force it absolutely.

We know the recipe, just need the ingredients by the playoffs. I want the best chance at that.

Edit.. If we can't recover a 1st for 2025 we're going to have to pay up a prospect that is closer to being ready, and may be a valuable ELC in the future if we have to do any real big game hunting. I want the need for that player minimized if possible.

 

[ABasin]

Let's be honest.. it's more likely Walker just leaves as a pricey UFA, we keep the top 4 that are all under contract, and the organization lets Malinski try to be the Walker-lite 3RHD.

This is the most realistic outcome, yes. And not a bad one either.

 

[PAZ]

Yeah Id say that is the most realistic outcome. Comes down to money… if you get Walker for 4.5 or less, then you move Manson. If he costs 5+ you simply move on.

I think there will be a lot of this.

If Trenin/Duhaime come back for ~$1-1.5 mil, you look to move Wood. If Drouin comes back at $2-3 mil, you move Wood/Colton/Lehky/etc. If Walker comes back at ~$4 mil, you move Manson, etc.

Still need to consider what Rants is going to want for his next contract and if Landy is done or will try and make a comeback. CMac has a lot of work to do this offseason.

 

[Foppa2118]

Not with him sitting in the press box for our cup win he isn't, and then also having times he hasn't lived up to his contract.

Again, I really think the playoffs will shake out some of these decisions in the end.

I'm not against keeping G, letting Walker go, and trading Manson then trying to replace him in the top four. I just think it will be much more difficult to find a #4RD to pair with Girard, than it would to find a #4LD to pair with Walker.

Playoffs are gonna be a big test for Girard. Avs are more reliant on him now than ever.

They're gonna have to go through some physical teams, and they're gonna take big runs at him, and set him up for punishing hits with calculated dump ins and forechecks in a way that he doesn't face in the regular season, knowing what happened the last time he took a big hit.

His body is gonna have to hold up, and he's gonna have to continue to move his feet, and make smart passes under pressure.

 

[Richard88]

Let's be honest.. it's more likely Walker just leaves as a pricey UFA, we keep the top 4 that are all under contract, and the organization lets Malinski try to be the Walker-lite 3RHD.

Here's a list of players traded who had more than one year left remaining on their contracts since CMac joined the Avs:

Byram
Jost
Graves
Duchene

Byram, Jost, and Duchene all wanted to be traded. Graves was a forced move because of the Expansion Draft.

It's one thing to make a trade due to circumstances forcing it (see Graves trade), but it would clearly be quite unlike CMac to trade Manson with two years left on his deal just so he can sign an UFA (Walker) for the same money.

 

[Balthazar]

There's one thing to consider too...if you let an UFA walk you get nothing but if you trade a guy under contract you get something back.

This could make a difference between keeping Walker vs Girard or Manson.

 

[Richard88]

There's one thing to consider too...if you let an UFA walk you get nothing but if you trade a guy under contract you get something back.

This could make a difference between keeping Walker vs Girard or Manson.

The flip side of that is that if you trade guys you only recently signed who don't want to leave then it potentially makes it harder to attract and/or negotiate with free agents in the future.

For example, if you trade Colton or Wood before their NMC's kick in agents may start insisting on full NMC's for the full duration of contracts in the future. Same with trading Manson as soon as his NMC becomes a modified NMC.

Players and agents know that CMac is extremely loyal to players under contract, but that would change if he starts to asset manage.

 

[henchman21]

The flip side of that is that if you trade guys you only recently signed who don't want to leave then it potentially makes it harder to attract and/or negotiate with free agents in the future.

For example, if you trade Colton or Wood before their NMC's kick in agents may start insisting on full NMC's for the full duration of contracts in the future. Same with trading Manson as soon as his NMC becomes a modified NMC.

Players and agents know that CMac is extremely loyal to players under contract, but that would change if he starts to asset manage.

Small technicality. Wood doesn't have any form of trade or movement protection. Colton's is just a NTC.

 

[Muffin]

The flip side of that is that if you trade guys you only recently signed who don't want to leave then it potentially makes it harder to attract and/or negotiate with free agents in the future.

For example, if you trade Colton or Wood before their NMC's kick in agents may start insisting on full NMC's for the full duration of contracts in the future. Same with trading Manson as soon as his NMC becomes a modified NMC.

Players and agents know that CMac is extremely loyal to players under contract, but that would change if he starts to asset manage.

Meh doesn't seem to be affecting Vegas.

 

[NorthernAvsFan]

Walker is a luxury, not a necessity for me.

He’d be low on my priority list. I’m not paying a premium for a bottom pair D.

 

[shadow1]

After so many years of discussing Girard as trade bait, moving him after trading Byram would be analogous to when Vancouver had both Luongo and Schneider, but somehow ended up with a decrepit Ryan Miller starting for them when the dust settled.

You can never say never, but Colorado has had plenty of opportunity to trade Girard in the past, and right now it makes the least sense it ever has due to team need and Giard's elevated play this season.

 

[Balthazar]

Walker is a luxury, not a necessity for me.

He’d be low on my priority list. I’m not paying a premium for a bottom pair D.

The issue with Walker is his age (he's turning 30 early next season) and he's on a career year.

All the red flags are there.

 

[henchman21]

Meh doesn't seem to be affecting Vegas.

Players want to live and play in Vegas... it is a top 5 destination city in the league. They also treat the players off the ice the best in the league by a good margin.

 

[NorthernAvsFan]

The issue with Walker is his age (he's turning 30 early next season) and he's on a career year.

All the red flags are there.

I think he could thrive in Denver for a few years, it’s clear he’s a good fit for the system.

I just think there’s too many other mouths to feed.