Transfer: 2024 Summer Transfer Window - Closed Window Discussion

[Chimaera]

He's better & more adaptable.

Nagelsmann?

I would buy tactically, but he also hasn't won anywhere near the amount Klopp has.

 

[Live in the Now]

No offense but better at what? Klopp's win Sunday was at minimum the third best of his tenure. They literally had children all over the field. If you tell me some other manager can do that, nope I don't believe you. You do not see coaches win games like that, and the more crazy part was, those kids weren't being played off the pitch before we scored. The gravity of this win with our fanbase will be looked on five years from now like a heroic feat. It was Klopp's Istanbul.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

 

[Evilo]

It's just people trying to stir shit.
Macron has the Qatar Emir coming and he's invited hundreds of people for dinner, including Mbappe.
There's really nothing to see here.

 

[Chimaera]

No offense but better at what? Klopp's win Sunday was at minimum the third best of his tenure. They literally had children all over the field. If you tell me some other manager can do that, nope I don't believe you. You do not see coaches win games like that, and the more crazy part was, those kids weren't being played off the pitch before we scored. The gravity of this win with our fanbase will be looked on five years from now like a heroic feat. It was Klopp's Istanbul.

I can completely buy that Nagelsmann is a great coach. I think he's very good. Honestly, I think Liverpool could do a lot worse.

But Klopp and to an extent the management team around him have been what has kept Liverpool anywhere near to what they've gotten with City. He might have how he plays tactically... but yeesh. If Nagelsmann took the job and was half as successful as Klopp, I think everyone involved would be over the moon.

 

[cgf]

Can't comment on the win you're talking about, but in general players have improved more under Nagelsmann than Kloppo, and JN can squeeze results out of a wider range of players since he is better at adjusting to the talent he has & doesn't need to have "his kinda guys" as much.

He's not as proven as Klopp is now, but he's a much better coach than Klopp was when he left Germany and should have better offers. JN's just a different kinda animal than other successful German coaches.

 

[S E P H]

Klopp is a one-trick pony tactically, which has made him a relevant name, but Nagelsmann is more like Pep where he's able to find tricks and strengths to line up against opposing teams better. If you gave Nagelsmann, Klopp's prime-LFC team, he would've won more, but the problem is that I don't think you make as good of a squad with Nagelsmann behind the helm instead of Klopp.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

It's just people trying to stir shit.
Macron has the Qatar Emir coming and he's invited hundreds of people for dinner, including Mbappe.
There's really nothing to see here.

I'd say that, on my side, it is mostly PTSD

 

[cgf]

lol I've missed you & the way you take everything way too far SEPH

 

[luiginb]

Nagelsmann better than Klopp lol. I don't personally think anyone is, but the only ones nowadays who can claim they are are Ancelotti and Pep. When Nagelsmann turns players like Mane and Salah into absolute world beaters he can claim that.

 

[cgf]

Touche, Nagelsmann certainly never has gotten players like Süle, Schar, Kramaric, Gnabry, Demirbay, Amiri, Nkunku, Olmo, Tel, etc. to perform like worldbeaters. And he definitely didn't get the ever-invisible Jamal Musiala to outplay Jude BettinGOAT up to the point that JN was fired last season

 

[luiginb]

Touche, Nagelsmann certainly never has gotten players like Süle, Kramaric, Demirbay, Nkunku, Olmo, Tel, etc. to perform like worldbeaters. And he definitely didn't get the ever-invisible Jamal Musiala to outplay Jude BettinGOAT up to the point that JN got fired last season

Not at that level, no

 

[cgf]

You're over-rating how much Klopp got out of Mane, or under-rating how much Julian got out of Nkunku, Olmo, Musiala, Kramaric, etc.

Nevermind that Nagelsmann turned a raw bust like Serge Gnabry into a Bayern-starter.

 

[bluesfan94]

You're over-rating how much Klopp got out of Mane, or under-rating how much Julian got out of Nkunku, Olmo, Musiala, Kramaric, etc.

Nevermind that Nagelsmann turned a raw bust like Serge Gnabry into a Bayern-starter.

Gnabry had 12 and 10 in 19-20. Now, I'm not claiming to be an expert on how Bayern played then, but he's had double digit goals every season he's been in the Bundesliga

 

[Epictetus]

If not Alonso, Ruben Amorim is the sleeper imo.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Gnabry had 12 and 10 in 19-20. Now, I'm not claiming to be an expert on how Bayern played then, but he's had double digit goals every season he's been in the Bundesliga

He’s referring to how Gnabry went from bust to brilliant under Nagelsmann at Hoffenheim, I assume

Which is also pushing it because Gnabry was good enough at Bremen the year prior for Bayern to sign him

 

[bluesfan94]

He’s referring to how Gnabry went from bust to brilliant under Nagelsmann at Hoffenheim, I assume

Which is also pushing it because Gnabry was good enough at Bremen the year prior for Bayern to sign him

Good catch. I forgot they had overlapped there

 

[Savant]

If not Alonso, Ruben Amorim is the sleeper imo.

I wouldn’t go Amorim (ahead of certain others)

Honestly my 2nd choice is just to raid Inter Milan. Get Inzaghi and a bunch of his guys. Inter will sell anyone anyway.

Then would prob have Nagelsmann 3 followed by Amorim and RDZ; but if it’s not Alonso no one is going to be happy; he’s been built up too much.

Honestly hoping Klopp has a wolf of Wall Street moment and decides he’s not going anywhere. One more year; it’s a shame he doesn’t get to go out without one more UCL run but when it’s time it’s time

 

[Evilo]

Klopp made a bunch of no names (or no more than above average names) world class at Liverpool. Nagelsmann has made pretty much nobody world class.
I like JN, but he's far removed from Klopp in that particular aspect.
When you get guys like Robertson or Henderson play like super uber talents, when you make VVD turn from a good defenseman to #1 in the world for years, when you make Mane from a decent mid table scorer in the EPL to superstar and then back to mid table player, when you make Salah unleash his full potential ands top being that guy with talent but no end product, etc, etc, etc.. then yeah, you can compare to what Klopp achieved. He only bought two stars, which were Allison and Thiago.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Not at that level, no

Klopp made a bunch of no names (or no more than above average names) world class at Liverpool. Nagelsmann has made pretty much nobody world class.
I like JN, but he's far removed from Klopp in that particular aspect.
When you get guys like Robertson or Henderson play like super uber talents, when you make VVD turn from a good defenseman to #1 in the world for years, when you make Mane from a decent mid table scorer in the EPL to superstar and then back to mid table player, when you make Salah unleash his full potential ands top being that guy with talent but no end product, etc, etc, etc.. then yeah, you can compare to what Klopp achieved. He only bought two stars, which were Allison and Thiago.

Yep.

I can't believe there's even a debate. Or even comparing somebody like Olmo to what Mane became

 

[cgf]

Gnabry had 12 and 10 in 19-20. Now, I'm not claiming to be an expert on how Bayern played then, but he's had double digit goals every season he's been in the Bundesliga

His stint at Werder got him back on track by rebuilding his confidence, but almost all of his contributions came on the counter. Nagelsmann was the one who started to teach him what to do if he couldn't just outrun the defense, which was when he went from a physically gifted roll of the dice to a Bayern caliber attacker...albeit one who's still not technically gifted or clever enough to be as good in traffic as he is in space.

He’s referring to how Gnabry went from bust to brilliant under Nagelsmann at Hoffenheim, I assume

Which is also pushing it because Gnabry was good enough at Bremen the year prior for Bayern to sign him

His Werder stint was enough for Bayern to buy him on the cheap...8M - 1M loan fee from TSG...his Hoffenheim stint was what got him to actually play for Bayern.


JN hasn't proven it on a cold Tuesday night at Stoke, but in Germany he's gotten more out of just good talents like Demirbay, Amiri, Süle, Kramaric, Kaderabek, etc. than Kloppo got out of Kagawa, Kuba, Bender, Schmelzer, etc. And under JN super talents like Musiala, Tel, and Nkunku have shined even more brightly than Lewa, Götze, and Reus did under JK.

Plus Klopp has a lot more Hofmann's on his resume, who he failed to make use of despite them later on having BuLi success, while Nagelsmann turned mediocre talents like Sandro Wagner into NTers.

Comparing the talents when they started working with each coach to what that coach got out of them, it's a clear advantage for the kid. Kloppo's great, and he's a ton of fun, but Nagelsmann is one of the few coaches who connects with his players almost (if not just) as well as Klopp does...on top of being a better teacher and more versatile tactically.

Just look at Süle, under Nagelsmann Süle has been a world class 2nd CB...not consistent to be your defensive anchor, but paired with a quality cleaner-upper he was phenomenal. Without Nagelsmann on his ass every day, Süle is a disaster for a Dortmund team that's struggling to hold onto 4th and was a major mess for Bayern.


Time will tell, but I suspect this'll be more like when all of you were telling me how much I was over-rating Klopp when he first got the Liverpool job by saying he was up there with Pep, than when I argued that TT's BVB was even more impressive than Klopp's was...until getting sonned by Pep caused TT to go overly-cynical.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

JN hasn't proven it on a cold Tuesday night at Stoke, but in Germany he's gotten more out of just good talents like Demirbay, Amiri, Süle, Kramaric, Kaderabek, etc. than Kloppo got out of Kagawa, Kuba, Bender, Schmelzer, etc. And under JN super talents like Musiala, Tel, and Nkunku have shined even more brightly than Lewa, Götze, and Reus did under JK.

Plus Klopp has a lot more Hofmann's on his resume, who he failed to make use of despite them later on having BuLi success, while Nagelsmann turned mediocre talents like Sandro Wagner into NTers.

Comparing the talents when they started working with each coach to what that coach got out of them, it's a clear advantage for the kid. Kloppo's great, and he's a ton of fun, but Nagelsmann is one of the few coaches who connects with his players almost (if not just) as well as Klopp does...on top of being a better teacher and more versatile tactically.

Just look at Süle, under Nagelsmann Süle has been a world class 2nd CB...not consistent to be your defensive anchor, but paired with a quality cleaner-upper he was phenomenal. Without Nagelsmann on his ass every day, Süle is a disaster for a Dortmund team that's struggling to hold onto 4th and was a major mess for Bayern.


Time will tell, but I suspect this'll be more like when all of you were telling me how much I was over-rating Klopp when he first got the Liverpool job by saying he was up there with Pep, than when I argued that TT's BVB was even more impressive than Klopp's was...until getting sonned by Pep caused TT to go overly-cynical.

Woof!

I’m not sure how one can remotely contemplate the thought that Nagelsmann got more out of those talents than Klopp out of his when Klopp’s won two BuLis and made a UCL Final. There’s no comparison at all there.

“Mediocre talent into an NTer” Sandro Wagner was an NTer at a nadir for the NT, whereas Klopp had Kevin f***ing Großkreutz make it into an NT that won a World Cup.

Klopp’s Dortmund resume alone makes the “Nagelsmann is better” claim a difficult one to justify, and that’s not even touching the Liverpool squad he inherited, built, and turned into a machine. A "Tuesday night in Stoke" (can we retire that line? at this point it's just corny) need not enter the equation here.

Also just lmao at Tuchel getting “sonned by Pep.” Was he getting sonned by Pep when his Chelsea beat City three times in six weeks en route to a UCL win and an FA Cup final? And that team, to anyone who actually watched it, was not even remotely cynical.

Nagelsmann has done nothing to persuade me he is more than the third best German manager right now.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Klopp’s Dortmund resume alone makes the “Nagelsmann is better” claim a difficult one to justify, and that’s not even touching the Liverpool squad he inherited, built, and turned into a machine.

City are the only machine in the PL.

 

[Chimaera]

City are the only machine in the PL.

to be fair, right now, sure. But there was a 2-3 year run where Liverpool were running neck and neck. The pace they put out would have won the title something stupid like 25 years it's been won.

 

[Chimaera]

I'm fully on board with Nagelsmann being a top manager. He did some pretty good things at RB Leipzig though some of that is also development and scouting just like Klopp has benefitted from. JN is young, he can adapt tactically, and he has decades in front of him.

My issue still stems from the fact that JN has NOT done it at a bigger stage than RB Leipzig (I could see an argument that given more time, he could have done it at Bayern... but I think that also defeats some of the argument). There also quickly is going to be a question of it 3-4 seasons and moving on is his shelf life.

I just think it's pretty ridiculous to compare the two. Look at the entire rebuild that was done for Liverpool. I don't want to go back and post it, but look at some of the lineups Klopp walked into. I think you could make the argument that RB Leipzig was on the way up when Nagelsmann walked into the squad. Sure, he improved them, but it wasn't like he was taking over for a complete decimation of a roster. Klopp has consistently gotten more out of his players than could likely be expected. They couldn't just bomb off a 50 million player like City can. They couldn't afford to reinforce parts. He had to make do with what was there. Tactically, he has made adaptations based upon what he has to work with and he's consistently integrated new parts as the squad has moved on. It's no coincidence that transfers Liverpool is batting at such a high rate. Their scouting / recruitment is absurd, but it helps when you have a manger so adept at integrating parts. Plenty of other clubs have failed with quality players. His achievements speak for itself.

It's a strong take and I don't hate it. But right now, probably not really comparable. In a decade? Sure, I think that's easier to make. When the German national team bombs out of it, there will be some stink on him. If he doesn't pick the right job next, and win something, the idea could be completely laughable.