Speculation: 2023-24 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Erep]

The reports are that the Rangers almost acquired him at the TDL, so I don't think that is true.

They needed retention and were probably giving up just a 6th for him. Hertl trade was way more important and used our last retention slot.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

If we luck out into Celebrini and both he and Smith sign ELCs, I'd be all for bringing back Joe Pavelski as captain for a year... Couldn't have a better mentor/leader. Culture is everything for the next 18 months.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

If we luck out into Celebrini and both he and Smith sign ELCs, I'd be all for bringing back Joe Pavelski as captain for a year... Couldn't have a better mentor/leader. Culture is everything for the next 18 months.

No chance he signs back here lol. He's playing for a contender in Dallas not getting taxed. That's a no brainer.

 

[STL Shark]

You think Athanasiou, Foligno and Dickinson would get the contracts they signed with Chicago anywhere else? This is part of the reality of being a rebuilding team post-teardown. Might as well overpay someone who deserves it like Zadina. It sends a positive message to any future UFAs too.

Those guys were not RFAs with team control and therefore are not remotely applicable comps.

The only message you're sending is that _____ output deserves more than market value and promoting a culture that rewards mediocrity.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yes i am because that's how trades in the NHL has gone on for the entire time the league has been making trades. Anytime there is a trade for a roster player for a pick and the receiving team adds a player there is always a lower pick added to even out the trade.

That means that you contend that an expiring undrafted 26 year old UFA minor leaguer was worth a 3rd round pick. I'm sorry but that's an unbelievable statement to make. Greco was in there as a contract so that the Lightning didn't have to add a contract as part of the trade.

Going by the same metric of the previous trade (and that is being generous), I'd have no issue giving up the TB 3rd rounder if it got the Sharks a 1st.

I wouldn't have a problem with that either but it then becomes sort of an admission that cap space is degrading in value. But I appreciate and support many different ways to possibly get better draft picks for this team currently. They need a lot of help organizationally until players start to mature and develop into NHL players.

 

[themelkman]

I think we would all love Pavs back but it’s just not viable. Losing him was probably the single worst move Wilson ever made

 

[Barrie22]

That means that you contend that an expiring undrafted 26 year old UFA minor leaguer was worth a 3rd round pick. I'm sorry but that's an unbelievable statement to make. Greco was in there as a contract so that the Lightning didn't have to add a contract as part of the trade.

I wouldn't have a problem with that either but it then becomes sort of an admission that cap space is degrading in value. But I appreciate and support many different ways to possibly get better draft picks for this team currently. They need a lot of help organizationally until players start to mature and develop into NHL players.

Your last line contradicts itself. The lightning sent a contract so they didn't have to send a contract? Huh

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Your last line contradicts itself. The lightning sent a contract so they didn't have to send a contract? Huh

No, it doesn't. The Lightning sent a contract because there are contract limits. That doesn't mean that the contract sent is worth anything. To believe what you do means that you believe Greco is worth a 3rd round pick which he absolutely was not in any reasonable way.

 

[STL Shark]

I think we would all love Pavs back but it’s just not viable. Losing him was probably the single worst move Wilson ever made

Not really. It didn't pan out as Pavelski had a late career resurgence starting in the COVID bubble (was very poor in Year 1 in Dallas prior to getting the prolonged time off), but the logic in letting Pavelski walk was 100% on point (and that comes from the biggest Pavelski fan out there). Betting on a 3 year deal for a 35 year old Pavs was never going to be something that a GM should get roasted for not doing.

The issue was bidding against himself for Kane and Karlsson with that cap space while already having handed out bad deals to Jones, Vlasic, and Couture prior. The Pavelski deal was grounded in logic, and I will never give a GM of any sports team grief for not paying large dollars on a 3 year deal to a 35 year old player.

Tip your cap to Pavs for rebounding after a poor regular season in 2019-20 and continuing that form the next 3 years after. There was a less than 5% chance that would be the outcome of the 3 year deal that he signed with Dallas.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Your last line contradicts itself. The lightning sent a contract so they didn't have to send a contract? Huh

It seems you’re not quite grasping the implications of the 50 NHL contract cap teams are constrained by. It is disadvantageous to be at the 50 contract maximum as NHL contracts are guaranteed and teams can only buy them out at designated windows during the offseason.

It is advantageous to have a couple of open slots to be able to add waiver wire players or sign college/Euro free agents. As such, it is generally desirable to equalize the number of NHL contracts changing hands in a trade. So you see players like Hamaliuk included in the Karlsson trade; Harrington, Emond, and Igabramov in the Meier trade; and Greco in the Goodrow trade. These are often AHL/ECHL lifers on cheap contracts; players their original orgs don’t mind losing and contracts the receiving team doesn’t notice on their bottom line.

The Sharks did not pay a 3rd rounder for the privilege of playing Grecco 7 Barracuda games and then not resigning him that offseason.

 

[Pavelski2112]

I think we would all love Pavs back but it’s just not viable. Losing him was probably the single worst move Wilson ever made

DW picking Kane over Pavelski is the dumbest move he ever made

 

[hohosaregood]

I think in total, DW wasn't a very good GM in that he wasn't a very good team builder nor did he do much to build a top notch front office team but he had some of the biggest home run moves of any GM which really carried him far. Thornton, Burns, Boyle, etc were core additions that can carry a team for a long time.

I guess the last couple years like picking Kane over Pavs or signing Labanc to a big extension after flubbing his bridge year soured me but I always had issues with him not being able to bring in good depth. Some of the best depth we had just felt like luck working out like Donskoi being pretty good or Torres being shockingly good after we tossed out Murray and Clowe during a retool.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I think in total, DW wasn't a very good GM in that he wasn't a very good team builder nor did he do much to build a top notch front office team but he had some of the biggest home run moves of any GM which really carried him far. Thornton, Burns, Boyle, etc were core additions that can carry a team for a long time.

If you look at the "home-run" big-name additions he made, all of them were heralded as great steals at the time, but I'd say only the Burns one is a trade I'd make again. The knock-on effects and contexts of the trades made them terrible.

Thornton - hitched their wagon to a loveable loser
Boyle - Committed to six years with Boyle as the top d-man; Boyle was great but not qualified for that role
Karlsson - Bad timing with the way the team was going, plus that onerous contract

 

[Alaskanice]

Thornton brought star power to San Jose. A legitimate super star. He led us into perennial contenders.
Boyle, he was a needed piece. That he rose to that role is fabulous. He did much better than he should have. Again, he led us into perennial contenders.
Karlsson, he was to be the final piece to the elusive puzzle.
None of these were bad moves in my opinion.

 

[LadyStanley]

Pashelka's take on NHL players. Nothing on possible incoming prospects or what team might be looking for to fill holes.

 

[STL Shark]

Pashelka's take on NHL players. Nothing on possible incoming prospects or what team might be looking for to fill holes.

So in total, another typical Pashelka article behind a paywall that literally has nothing of value attached to it?

 

[KarlssonsGroin]

If you look at the "home-run" big-name additions he made, all of them were heralded as great steals at the time, but I'd say only the Burns one is a trade I'd make again. The knock-on effects and contexts of the trades made them terrible.

Thornton - hitched their wagon to a loveable loser
Boyle - Committed to six years with Boyle as the top d-man; Boyle was great but not qualified for that role
Karlsson - Bad timing with the way the team was going, plus that onerous contract

absolutely not.

Thornton trade you make 10/10 times. To call him a loveable loser makes you look like a chump.

EK is the only deal that you can question the logic behind. And TBH if that pick has top 10 protection, thats still a deal you make.

Heater was a steal for Michalek and Cheechoo.

The only thing you can question about DW is his blind faith in Niemi.

 

[LadyStanley]

So in total, another typical Pashelka article behind a paywall that literally has nothing of value attached to it?

Yep

 

[hohosaregood]

absolutely not.

Thornton trade you make 10/10 times. To call him a loveable loser makes you look like a chump.

EK is the only deal that you can question the logic behind. And TBH if that pick has top 10 protection, thats still a deal you make.

Heater was a steal for Michalek and Cheechoo.

The only thing you can question about DW is his blind faith in Niemi.

I wish we could have gotten Hjalmarsson in that offer sheet. He would've been a much more significant long term addition for us.

 

[Cas]

You can't choke in the playoffs unless you get to the playoffs.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

DW picking Kane over Pavelski is the dumbest move he ever made

Just re-signing Kane was the biggest mistake. Even if they let Kane walk, letting Pavs walk would still be a defensible position. Giving Kane 7 years made no sense given his checkered history and position. It having the cascading effect with regards to the 1st round pick for re-signing him made the Karlsson trade end up worse than it would have if Kane walked and we basically would've dealt the 2019 1st in that deal instead of 2020.

 

[OrrNumber4]

absolutely not.

Thornton trade you make 10/10 times. To call him a loveable loser makes you look like a chump.

EK is the only deal that you can question the logic behind. And TBH if that pick has top 10 protection, thats still a deal you make.

Heater was a steal for Michalek and Cheechoo.

The only thing you can question about DW is his blind faith in Niemi.

I make the Thornton trade 10/10 times, only so I can turn around and flip him to another sucker for more value.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I make the Thornton trade 10/10 times, only so I can turn around and flip him to another sucker for more value.

And you'd be fired at season's end because you decided that staying in the basement w/o Thornton was preferable to contending in the playoffs with Thornton plus all the revenue associated with that success.

 

[aircobra]

I make the Thornton trade 10/10 times, only so I can turn around and flip him to another sucker for more value.

And that's why you're not a GM. This is an absolutely idiotic line of thinking.

 

[OrrNumber4]

And that's why you're not a GM. This is an absolutely idiotic line of thinking.

Why? Thornton is the worst playoff player since Marcel Dionne. That's an absolute anchor on your team every postseason.