GDT: 2023-24 season game 54 LA Kings vs Columbus Blue Jackets @7:30pm 2/20/24

[Axl Rhoadz]

Boy you just can't let go of PLD. Before PLD was on the Kings, did TM have a reputation for getting the most out of his teams or players? I'm not sure how much simpler I can make it for you.

 

[unicornpig]

Boy you just can't let go of PLD. Before PLD was on the Kings, did TM have a reputation for getting the most out of his teams or players? I'm not sure how much simpler I can make it for you.

he floundered a stacked SJ team, also was the coach in one of the biggest playoff chokes. he did literally nothing with 2 of the best players on the planet in edmonton.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I mean, can anyone name a player that TM got the best out of in his entire career of coaching? Can you name any guys that seemed to disappear or underperform while he was their coach? You think that's a coincidence?

This is really the crux of it.

I mean PLD is PLD, but TM has this history at every stop. There's not one player who overperformed under him, there are PLENTY who underperformed, and the evidence is in the performance bump of every single team he has left.

 

[YAYSAY]

Sure it is. If you were getting paid millions of dollars a year and your boss got replaced by a total prick who didn't like you, you're certainly not going to go to the wall for them. These people are human beings and being paid a lot doesn't turn off your emotions.

I mean, you can't on one hand expect these guys to sacrifice their bodies and everything to stop a puck from going in the net and have that fire and then also be surprised when they're emotional about being treated like shit.

I mean, can anyone name a player that TM got the best out of in his entire career of coaching? Can you name any guys that seemed to disappear or underperform while he was their coach? You think that's a coincidence?

But it seems like we're creating a revisionist history where apparently Todd hated PLD and treated him like crap. If anything, I remember a lot of people here frustrated with Todd's patience towards PLD. Again, in perspective, PLD is getting paid millions for his performance over basically 17 minutes or whatever his TOI usually is per game. What terrible tasks was he burdened with? He got favorable deployments, started off on PP1, started off with Fiala, didn't get called out for a long time when he should have.
I'm sure blame lies somewhat on Todd, but it's mostly on PLD, Byfield played great under Tmac while getting paid a lot less, from the get-go PLD wasn't showing up like he should have which has been a taboo around him his whole career. Him now looking better doesn't do him any favors for his reputation imo, it looks like he pouted like a baby until he got his way.
And this is coming from a guy who thinks it was good Todd was let go, I think he did all he could with the team, but to act like Todd personally had it out for PLD is silly.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

But it seems like we're creating a revisionist history where apparently Todd hated PLD and treated him like crap. If anything, I remember a lot of people here frustrated with Todd's patience towards PLD. Again, in perspective, PLD is getting paid millions for his performance over basically 17 minutes or whatever his TOI usually is per game. What terrible tasks was he burdened with? He got favorable deployments, started off on PP1, started off with Fiala, didn't get called out for a long time when he should have.
I'm sure blame lies somewhat on Todd, but it's mostly on PLD, Byfield played great under Tmac while getting paid a lot less, from the get-go PLD wasn't showing up like he should have which has been a taboo around him his whole career. Him now looking better doesn't do him any favors for his reputation imo, it looks like he pouted like a baby until he got his way.
And this is coming from a guy who thinks it was good Todd was let go, I think he did all he could with the team, but to act like Todd personally had it out for PLD is silly.

Dude, it's pointless. Any made up shit they can sling at TM, they will. Why the guy is so hated among many around here I'm not sure I will ever understand. I find it very strange and pathetic.

 

[SmytheKing]

But it seems like we're creating a revisionist history where apparently Todd hated PLD and treated him like crap. If anything, I remember a lot of people here frustrated with Todd's patience towards PLD. Again, in perspective, PLD is getting paid millions for his performance over basically 17 minutes or whatever his TOI usually is per game. What terrible tasks was he burdened with? He got favorable deployments, started off on PP1, started off with Fiala, didn't get called out for a long time when he should have.
I'm sure blame lies somewhat on Todd, but it's mostly on PLD, Byfield played great under Tmac while getting paid a lot less, from the get-go PLD wasn't showing up like he should have which has been a taboo around him his whole career. Him now looking better doesn't do him any favors for his reputation imo, it looks like he pouted like a baby until he got his way.
And this is coming from a guy who thinks it was good Todd was let go, I think he did all he could with the team, but to act like Todd personally had it out for PLD is silly.

Ok. I'm probably muddying the waters as I'm using my analogy. I'm not implying that TM was treating him poorly. I'm saying that he wasn't managing him correctly. I was using the being treated poorly as an example of why an individual wouldn't work hard for someone no matter what they were being paid.

For the purposes of PLD, consider that he might have felt he was being used incorrectly. He went to TM and they tried to fix this. PLD and him never clicked or worked well and TM started getting frustrated with him due to his performance. Meanwhile, PLD is seeing and hearing comments about how he doesn't care, how he's a quitter, etc...but he feels he's not getting the right opportunity. Then TM goes out and says barely veiled critiques that match those complaints from fans. PLD says "f this guy" and stops trying.

Hiller comes in and takes a different approach apparently, and now he looks like he's trying more. Whether that sticks or in 4 games he just returns to what he was, I don't know. I'm just saying that it seems to be a pattern with TM that guys underperform with him. I mean, even with PLD. The guy hasn't looked anything like the guy who has been playing for the last few years. TM gets canned and now he does. You add that to the pile of other examples and it points at TM certainly not being cut out for getting guys over the hump. He's a system guy who doesn't understand how to actually COACH players.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Hiller comes in and takes a different approach apparently, and now he looks like he's trying more. Whether that sticks or in 4 games he just returns to what he was, I don't know. I'm just saying that it seems to be a pattern with TM that guys underperform with him. I mean, even with PLD. The guy hasn't looked anything like the guy who has been playing for the last few years. TM gets canned and now he does. You add that to the pile of other examples and it points at TM certainly not being cut out for getting guys over the hump. He's a system guy who doesn't understand how to actually COACH players.

Examples of this besides PLD??

 

[Schmooley]

Dude, it's pointless. Any made up shit they can sling at TM, they will. Why the guy is so hated among many around here I'm not sure I will ever understand. I find it very strange and pathetic.

You are obsessed with him still. Why?

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

You are obsessed with him still. Why?

I don't keep bringing him up, you guys do.

My new main man is Hiller...I will support and respect our coach until there is good reason not to. Maybe you should try that too.

 

[YAYSAY]

Ok. I'm probably muddying the waters as I'm using my analogy. I'm not implying that TM was treating him poorly. I'm saying that he wasn't managing him correctly. I was using the being treated poorly as an example of why an individual wouldn't work hard for someone no matter what they were being paid.

For the purposes of PLD, consider that he might have felt he was being used incorrectly. He went to TM and they tried to fix this. PLD and him never clicked or worked well and TM started getting frustrated with him due to his performance. Meanwhile, PLD is seeing and hearing comments about how he doesn't care, how he's a quitter, etc...but he feels he's not getting the right opportunity. Then TM goes out and says barely veiled critiques that match those complaints from fans. PLD says "f this guy" and stops trying.

Hiller comes in and takes a different approach apparently, and now he looks like he's trying more. Whether that sticks or in 4 games he just returns to what he was, I don't know. I'm just saying that it seems to be a pattern with TM that guys underperform with him. I mean, even with PLD. The guy hasn't looked anything like the guy who has been playing for the last few years. TM gets canned and now he does. You add that to the pile of other examples and it points at TM certainly not being cut out for getting guys over the hump. He's a system guy who doesn't understand how to actually COACH players.

Maybe true, I guess I think they're both guilty, but before PLD came to Kings he was known to be inconsistent and have a poor effort level, which is exactly what he did when he came here. I think he had times when he was utilized correctly and I don't think he performed well when put in positions to succeed which is why I quoted that time he and Byfield switched spots, that line looked the best it ever looked, and PLD on the top line as wing still looked poor. I think PLD has greatly benefitted from Byfield being placed on his line because Byfield is a line driver and PLD is a passenger paid like a line driver, I think he's at his best when he's not actually the best player on his line, which is a problem as to why he was acquired.

I also wouldn't say TM has guys that underperform as a characteristic, Moore turned into a legit winger under him, Kempe as well, Danault has had his best years under him. Fiala looked exactly how he was expected to look, etc. And he took a Doughty-less team to 7 games against the Oilers so he can at least get something out of players. I just think he has a short shelf life after he instills his system because he's not good at adapting and changing things up when stuff stops working.

Basically what I'm saying is, let's agree to blame Blake.

 

[Schrute farms]

Maybe you weren't following the Kings the last two seasons? Two years ago, he took a roster that nobody predicted would make the playoffs (therefore, not 'enormously stacked) and got them to the brink of taking EDM out in the first round. The following season, he set a franchise record with 104 points.

You guys can spin your narrative all day long, doesn't make it true. Obviously if the criteria is Stanley Cups, then TM is a loser. So, with that said, the NHL has a shit load of loser coaches then.

Total garbage.

So glad they finally got rid of that loser TM. 5-1 since with QB playing like a star and PLD playing like a real NHL player. Imagine where we'd be if TM got fired sooner.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

So glad they finally got rid of that loser TM. 5-1 since with QB playing like a star and PLD playing like a real NHL player. Imagine where we'd be if TM got fired sooner.

You actually said this with a straight face.....ignoring the 16-4 start.....ignoring that TM is the one that got QB going..... I will give you PLD....

 

[FSL KINGS]

Wondering what the Kaliyev fanboys are saying tonight...

1 Goal, 3 Assists
0.167 PPG
JAD

Edit: For reference
7 Goals, 5 Assists
0.22 PPG
Lewis

PLD isn't playing better because of Jim Hiller.

He's playing better because he's choosing to. A coach can't be responsible for an individual player's effort.

It's almost like getting stuck with JAD & Grundström didn't motivate PL. Sitting there watching those two just brick chance after chance.

Give PL actual linemates & he's actually enjoying himself & motivated.

PL proving people wrong now just like Bustfield. There has been lots of criticism of PL by lazy, couch analysts.

Arvidsson, sucks to see him go out. Get better soon. Hockey just isn't as much fun without him.

 

[Statto]

You actually said this with a straight face.....ignoring the 16-4 start.....ignoring that TM is the one that got QB going..... I will give you PLD....

It was fairly widely reported that it was Kopitar who wanted Byfield alongside him. Before that his deployment and icetime were highly questionable. I’d agree that we do not know what his instructions were etc but it’s not a certain that TMac is the one that got QB going, I can argue the opposite and do feel that he held his development back with his deployment. It’s fairly clear to me that QB (and others) are playing looser since TMac went although correlation does not always mean we have the causation. I do think it’s fair to think it may have been TMac, maybe it’s the Hiller effect or a combination of the two. I go for the latter.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It was fairly widely reported that it was Kopitar who wanted Byfield alongside him. Before that his deployment and icetime were highly questionable. I’d agree that we do not know what his instructions were etc but it’s not a certain that TMac is the one that got QB going, I can argue the opposite and do feel that he held his development back with his deployment. It’s fairly clear to me that QB (and others) are playing looser since TMac went although correlation does not always mean we have the causation. I do think it’s fair to think it may have been TMac, maybe it’s the Hiller effect or a combination of the two. I go for the latter.

They are 100% playing looser, I'm not even saying letting TM go was the wrong decision, I'm just responding to the ignorance in the post that QB wasn't playing like a star before that, and that the Kings are hot at 5-1, while ignoring the 16-4 start.

 

[psych3man]

It seems very apparent that the most striking distance between TMac and Hiller is that Hiller makes in-game adjustments frequently to players and lines depending on players, lines, opponents and game situations. I can see the difference clearly and I can feel the change in game and team atmosphere as a result.
This, including general deployment, is such a breath of fresh air for us fans. I can imagine if we can obviously feel it so do the coaches.
Hallelujah!

 

[Schmooley]

It was fairly widely reported that it was Kopitar who wanted Byfield alongside him. Before that his deployment and icetime were highly questionable. I’d agree that we do not know what his instructions were etc but it’s not a certain that TMac is the one that got QB going, I can argue the opposite and do feel that he held his development back with his deployment. It’s fairly clear to me that QB (and others) are playing looser since TMac went although correlation does not always mean we have the causation. I do think it’s fair to think it may have been TMac, maybe it’s the Hiller effect or a combination of the two. I go for the latter.

They are definitely playing looser. In the post game the other day Byfield said himself the difference between now and before is he would have just dumped the puck in instead of going for that beauty of a goal.

 

[chris kontos]

in relation to mr mccllean, is loser a psyche diagnosis?
i know that his being history isnt.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

Wondering what the Kaliyev fanboys are saying tonight...

Seemed he didn't have a great game against CBJ and it's seeming more and more likely that there isn't a place for him on the Kings.... But I'd also point out that Tuesday night was basically his 2nd game in the last month.

And when he has played, he's been thrown into a 4th line role - Something posters on this board (myself included) have pointed out for years clearly doesn't suit him / play to his strengths.

I admit it starts to sound like "excuses excuses" but at the end of the day if you don't set a player up for success you shouldn't be shocked when they fail. Healthy scratching him for long stretches, then playing him in a role he's clearly not suited for when he does get into the lineup...... It's not exactly shocking the results haven't been there. Especially when the guy knows a single mistake is going to put him back in the press box for another 10 games - Can't imagine he feels like he can play freely and be creative out there.

Just saying...

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Seemed he didn't have a great game against CBJ and it's seeming more and more likely that there isn't a place for him on the Kings.... But I'd also point out that Tuesday night was basically his 2nd game in the last month.

And when he has played, he's been thrown into a 4th line role - Something posters on this board (myself included) have pointed out for years clearly doesn't suit him / play to his strengths.

I admit it starts to sound like "excuses excuses" but at the end of the day if you don't set a player up for success you shouldn't be shocked when they fail. Healthy scratching him for long stretches, then playing him in a role he's clearly not suited for when he does get into the lineup...... It's not exactly shocking the results haven't been there. Especially when the guy knows a single mistake is going to put him back in the press box for another 10 games - Can't imagine he feels like he can play freely and be creative out there.

Just saying...

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but who's spot in top 9 is he going to take. Who is he playing better than?

Turcotte didn't seem to have an issue coming in on the 4th line and impressing enough to stick and now he's being moved up and down the lineup (in a good way).

Look, I like Kaliyev, I want him to succeed....but enough with the blame being placed on the coaches and the org. It's just f***ing stupid.

 

[tny760]

every single one of those comments is patently untrue

turcotte was benched the same as kaliyev for the 3rd period against lumbus, kaliyev was moved up and down the lineup the same as turcotte, turcotte played 3:30 the game after putting up 2 points

"enough"

same attitude as daryl, didn't score a goal first shift? "you better start showin me somethin boy"

it IS the coaches and org if you're willing to say turc is "impressing well enough to stick" and he's rewarded by playing 4-5 minutes

 

[tny760]

Seemed he didn't have a great game against CBJ

where's the problem?

he played a fine game but he didn't score so time to talk about trades again? obviously that's not your argument but i'm speaking in generalities here

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but who's spot in top 9 is he going to take. Who is he playing better than?

Turcotte didn't seem to have an issue coming in on the 4th line and impressing enough to stick and now he's being moved up and down the lineup (in a good way).

Look, I like Kaliyev, I want him to succeed....but enough with the blame being placed on the coaches and the org. It's just f***ing stupid.

Yeah, the only guy I'd argue would be Laferriere. I also like Laferriere and think he has a really bright future but he's a waiver exempt rookie and makes the same mistakes Kaliyev does with no consequences - Turnovers, missed defensive assignments, penalties (at times)... And he doesn't have the offensive production to justify those things.

Might lose some people here, but I'd bet if they gave Kaliyev a consistent role in the top 9 you'd see him put up more points and give up less goals against than Laferriere. Then you have the fact that he's remained out of the lineup for long stretches while the team had been struggling to score goals yet Lewis, Grundstrom, and JAD remained consistently in the lineup. That's why people start to blame coaching / management. Coaching because they aren't deploying Kaliyev at all most nights and when they do they aren't using him in a way that sets him up for success. Management because they're essentially screwing up his development, shouldn't have drafted him in the first place if he wasn't going to fit their system, and now are probably going to have to trade him for an underwhelming return and we'll have to watch him explode for another team that DOES set him up for success and give him ice time.

where's the problem?

he played a fine game but he didn't score so time to talk about trades again? obviously that's not your argument but i'm speaking in generalities here

By "didn't have a great game" I just meant that he wasn't super noticeable / didn't show up on the scoresheet. I didn't think he had a bad game, just not a great one either. Like you said, he was fine.

Looking at his ice time over his last 5 games is an absolute joke. 9 mins 5 secs, 6 mins 32 secs, 8 mins 37 secs, 8 mins 54 secs, 7 mins 21 secs. And that 5th most recent game was all the way back in mid-January. Yikes.

I hope Kaliyev doesn't get traded - Just seems like the writing is on the walls here. Even with Arvidsson out he's been healthy scratched / slotted on the 4th line. I don't agree with it - I want to see him play. But if they aren't going to play him... Might as well explore trade options.

Edit: Also, re: Turcotte.. Very different players. Also, yes it seems Hiller has moved both players up/down the lineup at times but when you're getting less than 10 mins of ice time getting a shift or two in the top 6/9 is like giving someone a high 5 after you've taken a dump on their front porch... The high 5 is cool and all but the problem (the dump) still exists.

 

[kingsholygrail]

This is really the crux of it.

I mean PLD is PLD, but TM has this history at every stop. There's not one player who overperformed under him, there are PLENTY who underperformed, and the evidence is in the performance bump of every single team he has left.

Who was coach when Brown and Kopitar basically had career years in 2018?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Who was coach when Brown and Kopitar basically had career years in 2018?

Stevens?

I dont' follow