GDT: 2023-24 season game 25 LA Kings vs New York Rangers @4:00pm 12/10/23

[Raccoon Jesus]

I wouldn't be surprised if Blake et al saw him as a project too. I'm willing to evaluate 'the contract' on its own merits at a later time. I do believe there is potential there as well. But I don't believe he'll EVER have the consistency to be a top C. This is Blake/TM thinking they're the smartest guys in the room and they'll 'fix' the guy no one else could. Such ego.

But right now? Utter trash, career worst production. He was better as a rookie. I'm sure there's SOME learning the system and typical TM code shit going on too, and I appreciate some of the things he's tried lately. But it's not NEARLY enough for this team that is trying to compete now.

 

[Bandit]

If Dubois were a self-starter it wouldn't matter who his linemates are at all. But he is a very, very expensive passenger and has been one since drafted.

Its astonishing that he was given $68 million over 8 years considering his actual worth is little more than half that total.

He is being paid early for future production. There is a whole lot of maturation that will need to take place to justify that commitment.

I wouldn’t worry about it too much. By the time PLD is an abject failure that even the nuthuggers can’t deny, Blake will be fired and Nelson Emerson will be our GM.

The legit was gonna make this joke and then I realized Nelson Emerson actually IS our AGM. f***ing putrid.

 

[bouncesonly]

Lettuce be real here.....any center paid 8+ mil a year was gonna shit the bed this season with the Kings....just can't have nice things.

 

[Eagle Fang]

Just help me understand the point of arguing against it. Because you were the one who wondered aloud what Kopitar would do with lesser linemates and the answer was "the exact same thing he's always done" as if it pardons PLD doing less with less. You're absolutely right that it shouldn't be a comparison in the first place, but it sounds like you're excusing PLD by doing so by suggesting other guys see a drop in production as well and...they don't. Not notably.

It's not his fault he's paid so much.

It's not his fault he has these linemates.

Okay--what level of play is acceptable? Because right now it sounds like he has carte blanche to do whatever the f*** he wants in his softer-than-Colin-Miller minutes.

I'm not coming down on you at all but you're beating around the bush here.

I want to be careful how I word this because it's not meant to be a pardon for PLD, though it does come across that way.

Again, I don't like the trade, I don't like PLD as a player and I wish the trade was never made.

But, I don't know how else to argue the point that line mates matter. Depending on the player, the degree varies but it matters.

You mentioned production with Dwight King as being "the exact same thing...". They connected for 14 points over 4 seasons. The ultimate nail would be going through the stats and actually counting up the number of games played together, but I'd wager their ppg average as a line would be much lower than Kopitar's .88 career ppg.

I'm not trying to defend PLD's play at all.

My point is simply that I don't agree with people complaining about his lack of production, especially when putting it in the context of how much he gets paid.

It really isn't his fault he gets paid 8.5 million dollars. Blake offered it... what is he going to say, 'No"? Yet everyone, including my self let out collective groans when it was announced.

Just because he signed that amount doesn't turn him into what we all feel an 8.5 million dollar player should be. When the trade was made, everyone, including myself let out a collective groan because we've heard and/or saw the type of player he is or is known to be from Coloumbus and Winnipeg.

And given those 2 points, people shouldn't expect him to suddenly turn into a player he's not, nor should they think he'll just pick up on a 60 piont pace playing with players who are not in the same stratosphere as Connor, Scheifele, Ehlers or Wheeler.

Heck, he probably got 20 points alone just by being on the ice with those guys and giving them the puck.

Let me ask you this, what are your expectations of PLD at the end of the season should he continue to play with Grundstrom and Laferriere?

Because similar to Fiala, PLD's only value is offensive production.

 

[Fishhead]

When people are like "but Jarret Stoll had Dwight King!" you know we've reached the ultimate level of excuses for PLD.

Come on folks. listen to yourselves.

Edit: to elaborate, Dwight Kings best season, which was 15-15-30, was mostly spent next to Kopitar.

Grundstrom's current season is on pace for 23-30, spent next to Lizotte and PLD.

He's got to save himself.

Wasn't really saying much about PLD himself and certainly wasn't trying to make excuses for him, we all know he needs to pick it up in a big way. I was more referring to how that line has been a total failure, and while TM deserves credit for balancing ice time his head is up his ass as far as that combo goes.

King played with Kopitar in that good season, yes, but for most of those 399 minutes he had Carter on the other side, followed by Williams. PLD right now has Grundstrom, who scores like King but with worse defense on one side, and Laf, who is doing a wonderful Craig Johnson imitation on the other (minus the shooting on the off-foot). No way does Kopitar hit 70 points between those two, more like 60 if he's lucky, and probably less. This has nothing to do with PLD loafing out there which is maddening, or not driving play like he can. At his pay grade he has to do that without excuse. But the guy has always played with top players and finishers his whole career and produced, what he is with right now is a big difference. It's a clusterf*** on both the player's and the coach's side.

He's now played almost the exact amount of 5v5 time away from Fiala as he did with him. With Fiala they were 9GF and 8GA, GF% of 53. Without Fiala he's at 3GF and 5GA, GF% of 37.5. Fiala without PLD is 10GF and 10GA, almost the same as with. While Laf isn't doing anything most of the time the big difference is when they added Grundstrom. 1GF in 100 minutes. Without Carl, PLD is at 11GF in 200 minutes. And Carl's production has tanked too, without PLD he was at 9GF and 4GA. They just don't fit and it's a shitty combo.

For the life of me I can't figure out why Arty isn't swapped with Grundstrom. Gotta start getting shit figured out before the midpoint so if there are injuries there are option.

 

[Sol]

project or not, lazy is not fixable and rarely do people get out of it. A team hopper and someone as universally disliked as PLD should have come to the team with something to prove. I think if he doesn’t have the gusto now then I have a hard time thinking he will find it then. Maybe the playoffs?

 

[chris kontos]

Kaliyev belongs on pld's wing

 

[King'sPawn]

Does PLD need to step it up? Abso-f***ing-lutely. Does he play with two of our 3 most unproductive forwards? Undoubtedly.

Maybe they'd be more productive if PLD played better, not the other way around?

Let me ask you this, what are your expectations of PLD at the end of the season should he continue to play with Grundstrom and Laferriere?

If he's getting 61% of the offensive starts, powerplay time, AND no penalty killing, I would expect a one-dimensional forward who has a history of putting up 60ish points per season to put up least 50 points.

Blake Lizotte put up 34 points last season with zero powerplay time and PK time. He averaged 11:32 of even strength ice time last year. PLD's averaging almost 13 minutes.

 

[KINGS17]

Not gonna bother reading through all the comments but if people are trying to shit on Kopitar go check yourself.

First ballot HOF , leads the team in scoring again at age 50, go shit on someone else.

I agree don't crap on Kopitar the player. Instead wipe your ass with his last two contracts.

 

[Kudelski37]

From 2011-12 to 2014-15 (almost 4 seasons), Kopitar and King teamed up for a total of 14 points in the regular season. I don't know how many actual games they played together, but if it's "large parts", I don't see how that makes the point.

And what alibi am I making? My primary point in all of my posts regarding PLD is targeted at people saying he's paid 8.5 million dollars but isn't producing like it. Well no kidding. The guy isn't worth 8.5 million to begin with.

He's an offensive player who has never shown the ability to carry a line. He's a good complimentary player when paired with other talented offensive players.

Yet given that, people are upset because he's not at a 60pt pace playing with 2 players who have a combined lower ppg career avearge than Dwight King?

PLD has 22 points in his last 46 regular season games dating back to the start of February. It isn't a current linemate problem.

The difference between Fiala and Dubois is Fiala gets his points regardless of his linemates...with Kopi, Danault, Dubois, Lizotte, etc. This is why trading for a pricey center for Fiala was pointless.

It is a team sport and the salary cap is not a secret. Players know their salaries impact team success. Some players take less salary to help the team compete.

 

[Eagle Fang]

Maybe they'd be more productive if PLD played better, not the other way around?


If he's getting 61% of the offensive starts, powerplay time, AND no penalty killing, I would expect a one-dimensional forward who has a history of putting up 60ish points per season to put up least 50 points.

Blake Lizotte put up 34 points last season with zero powerplay time and PK time. He averaged 11:32 of even strength ice time last year. PLD's averaging almost 13 minutes.

Edited as my original reply sounded really weird haha. That's a good point and an excellent counter argument to anything I've said about PLD's line mates being a factor.

Please don't use it again as that would kill any debate going and it's kind of a fun topic to discuss .

I'm kidding, but that was a good one. I'm trying to think of what I could say, but there really isn't anything.

 

[KINGS17]

It’s kinda scary how mediocre the Kings have played against good teams. Long were the days we lost to the worst and beat the best. Dislike this variation a lot.

It is a foreshadowing of the coming 1st round playoff disappointment. In the NHL you have to take the ice the other team won't give you. The Kings simply won't do it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't know why people keep going back to Kopitar on this though.

Kopitar put up points with Dwight King on his wing. he put up points with a 20 point kyle Calder. When you say 'what do you expect' and then bring up Kopitar, I'm going to repeatedly show you how different that is.

Re: expectations for PLD I do expect that in such cushy minutes he'd do better than half his career average if his linemates are two pet rocks.

 

[Brownie to Pancakes]

The longer PLD plays like this, the more opposing teams are going to focus their defensive efforts elsewhere, which will handicap the balance and line-rolling that has propped up the kings record so far

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

If PLD came here with no history of exactly what he's doing now, no shit body language, smiled every once in a while, was helping his teammates be better, was at least making an effort to even appear enthusiastic while the team is having its best start ever I think a lot more people around here would be a little more sympathetic.

The other night during the second intermission the broadcast said they would be interviewing him after the game, instead Grundstrom came out. This was after a win. Something is going on with PLD. I think to deny it is silly.


One can hope.

Carrlyn did interview him so not sure what you're saying

 

[AbsentMojo]

project or not, lazy is not fixable and rarely do people get out of it. A team hopper and someone as universally disliked as PLD should have come to the team with something to prove. I think if he doesn’t have the gusto now then I have a hard time thinking he will find it then. Maybe the playoffs?

Ya thats the shocker.. you'd think he'd want to impress his teammates, coach, gm and the new fans.. thats what Id want to do on a new team esp earn my teammates respect because being part of the group would be deeply important to me. There are personalities that are natural outsiders - and create situations consciously or not where they end up that way. Thats the kindest excuse i can come up with.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Maybe they'd be more productive if PLD played better, not the other way around?


If he's getting 61% of the offensive starts, powerplay time, AND no penalty killing, I would expect a one-dimensional forward who has a history of putting up 60ish points per season to put up least 50 points.

Blake Lizotte put up 34 points last season with zero powerplay time and PK time. He averaged 11:32 of even strength ice time last year. PLD's averaging almost 13 minutes.

So you think an extra 1:30 should constitute double the production, with non-offensive linemates? That's a tall order

 

[johnjm22]

Not a surprising outcome. The Rangers play a hard game and don't give up much ice, and the Kings will not impose their will against teams like the Rangers.

This is NHL Network level analysis. Deep stuff.

I like how you didn't post for two weeks. Then when the Kings have only their 2nd regulation loss in a month span you return to immediately shit on them.

 

[Fishhead]

PLD has 22 points in his last 46 regular season games dating back to the start of February. It isn't a current linemate problem.

The difference between Fiala and Dubois is Fiala gets his points regardless of his linemates...with Kopi, Danault, Dubois, Lizotte, etc. This is why trading for a pricey center for Fiala was pointless.

It is a team sport and the salary cap is not a secret. Players know their salaries impact team success. Some players take less salary to help the team compete.

Remember PLD got injured at the end of last year and missed their final 6 games. He had 7 points in 9 games leading up to injury. He also had 23 in his last 35, despite dealing with a back injury and missing some time in March.

Not going to argue the merits of the trade, but current linemates are certainly a huge consideration.

 

[Fishhead]

Maybe they'd be more productive if PLD played better, not the other way around?

That could certainly be the case, but he gets points in 83% of the 5v5 goals that happen when he's on the ice. That tells me that if he's not the one involved, it usually doesn't end up in the back of the net. You really can't get much higher than that, he's the only one ahead of Byfield.

It also screams to me that if he would bust his ass out there, we probably wouldn't be discussing his terrible play.

 

[johnjm22]

With PLD you have to hope what we're seeing is his floor, and there's no where to go but up.

It's hard to imagine he could get much worse.

I still say he looks very out of shape.

As much as we're criticizing him (and he deserves it), can you imagine how harsh the criticism would be if the team was struggling? If the Kings go on a cold streak the venom will really be out for him.

 

[King'sPawn]

That could certainly be the case, but he gets points in 83% of the 5v5 goals that happen when he's on the ice. That tells me that if he's not the one involved, it usually doesn't end up in the back of the net. You really can't get much higher than that, he's the only one ahead of Byfield.

It also screams to me that if he would bust his ass out there, we probably wouldn't be discussing his terrible play.

We also wouldn't be talking about his production if he was putting forth a more consistent effort, which is why his linemates is a red herring.

We only bring up his lack of production because people have varying tolerances for poor play in the eye test. We couldn't even discuss what a tire fire Durzi was defensively without people white knighting him.

 

[Eagle Fang]

I don't know why people keep going back to Kopitar on this though.

Kopitar put up points with Dwight King on his wing. he put up points with a 20 point kyle Calder. When you say 'what do you expect' and then bring up Kopitar, I'm going to repeatedly show you how different that is.

Re: expectations for PLD I do expect that in such cushy minutes he'd do better than half his career average if his linemates are two pet rocks.

I only mentioned Kopitar because he's the team's 1C. He's counted on for offense (among other things of course) and it's somewhat similar in that PLD is suppose to be an offensive, top 6 center. It's not meant to imply in any way that PLD is in the same category of player as Kopitar.

You could replace Kopitar with X player. Byfield for example. Is Byfield, position not withstanding, going to put up 21 pts playing with Laferriere and Grundstrom?

But it's not that Kopitar simply put up points playing with King or Calder, it's how effective were they together. As I mentioned, Kopitar and King have connected on 14 goals over a 4 season span. If they played say 20 games together, then that proves your point. However, if that's over a total of say 40 or 50 games, I don't think that really supports the notion that Kopitar puts up points no matter who he's with.

By that logic, technically PLD also puts up points with Grundstrom and Laferriere.

 

[Fishhead]

We also wouldn't be talking about his production if he was putting forth a more consistent effort, which is why his linemates is a red herring.

We only bring up his lack of production because people have varying tolerances for poor play in the eye test. We couldn't even discuss what a tire fire Durzi was defensively without people white knighting him.

I think it's both things really. He's with players that have clearly conflicting styles, and he's loafing around out there on and off during most of his shifts.

But even with all of that, and it couldn't go much worse, the difference between him and Kopitar at 5v5 is 2 points and Kopi has 5 secondary assists while PLD has 1. If he was anywhere even close to his career averages on the PP, we wouldn't even have much to discuss about him. His single PP point is probably the most disappointing to me, that's always been his bread/butter.

 

[KINGS17]

This is NHL Network level analysis. Deep stuff.

I like how you didn't post for two weeks. Then when the Kings have only their 2nd regulation loss in a month span you return to immediately shit on them.

How often should I post? You seem to be the expert. I don't need to post everyday to be right.