Prospect Info: 2023-24 Ducks Prospects

[Kalv]

So only Terrance. Are any of our US prospects not there?

 

[GunnarStahl]

So only Terrance. Are any of our US prospects not there?

Callow isn’t there, Callow and Terrance are the only eligible ducks prospects for the US team.

 

[razor ray]

The main thing facing the Ducks and their prospect group is the Leo Carlsson vs Adam Fantilli debate. Leo Carlsson will certainly become a top-six NHL forward without question. The real test will be is that can Carlsson reach his ceiling and have the potential that Adam Fantilli might have. The Ducks might have taken a massive risk by letting Fantilli fall to 3rd overall. But only time will tell. Regardless, the Ducks have a top-five prospect pool in the NHL headlined by some really awesome defensemen. Anaheim historically has been amazing at drafting and developing defensemen. And with guys like Olen Zellweger and Pavel Mintyukov in the system to compliment Jamie Drysdale and the other young stars, the Ducks are slowly setting themselves up for success. The Ducks will be on the rise soon and they could be a serious problem in the Pacific Divison in years to come.

Ranking the Pacific Division Prospect Pools

With the 2023 Entry Draft in Nashville all said and done and with the offseason in full effect, it has become a perfect time to take a deep dive into the prospect pools of all 32 NHL teams. For thi…

twsn.net

 

[nbducksfan19]

The main thing facing the Ducks and their prospect group is the Leo Carlsson vs Adam Fantilli debate. Leo Carlsson will certainly become a top-six NHL forward without question. The real test will be is that can Carlsson reach his ceiling and have the potential that Adam Fantilli might have. The Ducks might have taken a massive risk by letting Fantilli fall to 3rd overall. But only time will tell. Regardless, the Ducks have a top-five prospect pool in the NHL headlined by some really awesome defensemen. Anaheim historically has been amazing at drafting and developing defensemen. And with guys like Olen Zellweger and Pavel Mintyukov in the system to compliment Jamie Drysdale and the other young stars, the Ducks are slowly setting themselves up for success. The Ducks will be on the rise soon and they could be a serious problem in the Pacific Divison in years to come.

Ranking the Pacific Division Prospect Pools

With the 2023 Entry Draft in Nashville all said and done and with the offseason in full effect, it has become a perfect time to take a deep dive into the prospect pools of all 32 NHL teams. For thi…

twsn.net

I don’t understand this sentiment and it’s fairly pervasive. Of course there is risk in passing on Fantilli, but there also would have been risk in passing on Carlsson.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

The main thing facing the Ducks and their prospect group is the Leo Carlsson vs Adam Fantilli debate. Leo Carlsson will certainly become a top-six NHL forward without question. The real test will be is that can Carlsson reach his ceiling and have the potential that Adam Fantilli might have. The Ducks might have taken a massive risk by letting Fantilli fall to 3rd overall. But only time will tell. Regardless, the Ducks have a top-five prospect pool in the NHL headlined by some really awesome defensemen. Anaheim historically has been amazing at drafting and developing defensemen. And with guys like Olen Zellweger and Pavel Mintyukov in the system to compliment Jamie Drysdale and the other young stars, the Ducks are slowly setting themselves up for success. The Ducks will be on the rise soon and they could be a serious problem in the Pacific Divison in years to come.

Ranking the Pacific Division Prospect Pools

With the 2023 Entry Draft in Nashville all said and done and with the offseason in full effect, it has become a perfect time to take a deep dive into the prospect pools of all 32 NHL teams. For thi…

twsn.net

Dumb article write-up on a Pacific Prospect pool ranking. Anaheim is ranked #1 in the Pacific, so I don't comprehend insertion of Fantilli in the mix.

Do the job of researching why Carlsson is ranked #1 in Anaheim's pool and why he helps the Ducks be #1 in the Pacific like thriving in a top men's league in Europe or flourishing as a center at all international events, including the WC. Anyhow, it's not like the Ducks have been questioned before taking a prospect ahead of where he should be in McTavish in 2021.

The top-5 for the Ducks seems suspect.

Mintyukov: OHL d-man of the year​

Zellweger: WHL d-man of the year x2​

Luneau: QMJHL d-man of the year​

Hinds: QMJHL defensive d-man of the year​

Seems like Luneau isn't getting the same love as Minty and Zell.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I don’t understand this sentiment and it’s fairly pervasive. Of course there is risk in passing on Fantilli, but there also would have been risk in passing on Carlsson.

At least among fans (and their sites), it seems like Carlsson's success will be judged against Fantilli's, so even if he ends up a PPG 2-way 1C with like an 18 year career, if Fantilli is a perennial 40 goal scorer, that will somehow shade against Leo even though that's an HOF career.

I legitimately do not care about Fantilli, at all. I honestly don't get the mindset of people who look at Carlsson and think "Fantilli."

 

[Deuce22]

At least among fans (and their sites), it seems like Carlsson's success will be judged against Fantilli's, so even if he ends up a PPG 2-way 1C with like an 18 year career, if Fantilli is a perennial 40 goal scorer, that will somehow shade against Leo even though that's an HOF career.

I legitimately do not care about Fantilli, at all. I honestly don't get the mindset of people who look at Carlsson and think "Fantilli."

The desire to be "right" is a powerful thing. Sometimes even more powerful than fandom for a hockey team.

 

[tomd]

It’s a natural reaction when the pick right after yours become a much better player. Especially when everyone projected he would be. In this case though I think carlsson will be just fine..

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

It’s a natural reaction when the pick right after yours become a much better player. Especially when everyone projected he would be. In this case though I think carlsson will be just fine..

When he becomes, although even then I still think it reflects a sort of unhealthy obsessiveness. I don't remember freaking out about Ales Hemsky or Anze Kopitar or anything.

But that obviously hasn't happened yet so this maintenance of Fantilli's presence in every Carlsson discussion is just presuming the conclusion, and it functions as the premise for very facile surface-level discussions of prospects (like the one in this thread) and as a foil for people's insecurities, so it's like triple annoying.

 

[tomd]

When he becomes, although even then I still think it reflects a sort of unhealthy obsessiveness. I don't remember freaking out about Ales Hemsky or Anze Kopitar or anything.

But that obviously hasn't happened yet so this maintenance of Fantilli's presence in every Carlsson discussion is just presuming the conclusion, and it functions as the premise for very facile surface-level discussions of prospects (like the one in this thread) and as a foil for people's insecurities, so it's like triple annoying.

I don't disagree but it is natural for everry fanbase. There is a pretty good example right up the freeway in Byfield/Stutzle.

 

[ScarTroy]

I don't disagree but it is natural for everry fanbase. There is a pretty good example right up the freeway in Byfield/Stutzle.

That’s not the best example though, LA took the media consensus, so no one gave them any grief until AFTER Stutzle became the better player. Right now, Fantilli is not, but everyone is already pretending he is superior even though he was just outproduced by Carlsson about 2 months ago.

 

[nbducksfan19]

That’s not the best example though, LA took the media consensus, so no one gave them any grief until AFTER Stutzle became the better player. Right now, Fantilli is not, but everyone is already pretending he is superior even though he was just outproduced by Carlsson about 2 months ago.

Exactly right. I would also venture to say that more often than not, the team who opts to pass on the media favorite ends up right more often than not. You would think posters around here and media folks would learn their lessen, instead of doubling down on their groupthink opinion.

Right or wrong, I am very glad our GM (and perhaps more importantly Madden) seem to follow their list and don’t get caught up in the noise. If I were a betting man we would have had Stutzle over byfield.

 

[tomd]

That’s not the best example though, LA took the media consensus, so no one gave them any grief until AFTER Stutzle became the better player. Right now, Fantilli is not, but everyone is already pretending he is superior even though he was just outproduced by Carlsson about 2 months ago.

Well you are right about that. But it just means that if Fantilli turns out to be the better player then the criticism over the pick will be endless. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

For the record, I wanted the Ducks to pick Fantilli but I did see flaws in his game that left me a bit uncomfortable about how well his game would translate at the NHL level. The more I watched Carlsson, the more impressed I was...he just looks like a #1C at the NHL level...so smooth and talented. My main concern in limited viewing about Carlsson is how good of a finisher he is. We'll see. Fantilli, on the other hand, is all energy and motion mixed with talent. Not a lot of structure to his game IMO. I think the way Madden described them before the draft is pretty accurate...and was a pretty obvious indication as to who the Ducks were going to pick.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Well you are right about that. But it just means that if Fantilli turns out to be the better player then the criticism over the pick will be endless. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

For the record, I wanted the Ducks to pick Fantilli but I did see flaws in his game that left me a bit uncomfortable about how well his game would translate at the NHL level. The more I watched Carlsson, the more impressed I was...he just looks like a #1C at the NHL level...so smooth and talented. My main concern in limited viewing about Carlsson is how good of a finisher he is. We'll see. Fantilli, on the other hand, is all energy and motion mixed with talent. Not a lot of structure to his game IMO. I think the way Madden described them before the draft is pretty accurate...and was a pretty obvious indication as to who the Ducks were going to pick.

While you preferred fantilli pre-draft and I preferred Carlsson, I at least always understood your opinion and felt you were actually watching the players and seeing their respective strengths/weaknesses.

So many posters and media opinions on Fantilli/Carlsson were just poor takes that were repeated non-stop, and then used as the basis for why Fantilli is a better prospect. The most notable of this is that Fantilli is the guaranteed Center, while Carlsson might be a winger. This lazy take is simply because Carlsson played more wing this year, while Fantilli played more Center. While I think both could be NHL centers, I don’t see how any objective Hockey scout/analyst could actually watch those two players and not conclude that Carlsson is the much more natural center of the two.

 

[tomd]

While you preferred fantilli pre-draft and I preferred Carlsson, I at least always understood your opinion and felt you were actually watching the players and seeing their respective strengths/weaknesses.

So many posters and media opinions on Fantilli/Carlsson were just poor takes that were repeated non-stop, and then used as the basis for why Fantilli is a better prospect. The most notable of this is that Fantilli is the guaranteed Center, while Carlsson might be a winger. This lazy take is simply because Carlsson played more wing this year, while Fantilli played more Center. While I think both could be NHL centers, I don’t see how any objective Hockey scout/analyst could actually watch those two players and not conclude that Carlsson is the much more natural center of the two.

Agree.

I actually think the odds are higher that Fantilli will end up as a winger in the NHL exactly because he plays more like a winger. I've said this before but if I was a winger I'd much rather have Carlsson as my center than Fantilli.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Agree.

I actually think the odds are higher that Fantilli will end up as a winger in the NHL exactly because he plays more like a winger. I've said this before but if I was a winger I'd much rather have Carlsson as my center than Fantilli.

Ya. I really can’t think of many examples of Centers who play the way Fantilli does (outside of McKinnon), while there are countless examples of centers who play like Carlsson.

Note: I also think McKinnon could be just as good at wing as he is at center.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

It's weird. The 2023 top of the draft class looks better than the 2022 top of the draft class.

2022
1. LW Slafkovsky
2. D Nemec
3. C Cooley
4. C Wright

2023
1. C Bedard
2. C Fantilli
3. C Carlsson
4. C Smith

When we were around #4 pick later in the season, I was ecstatic to potentially have Smith on-board even though it meant missing out on Bedard, Fantilli, and Carlsson. And now we have Carlsson, I'm overboard. I was prepared for Fantilli, but preferred Carlsson. I was happy to select either one, but pissed off we missed out on Bedard!

In the big picture, the 2023 top-4 picks will make the NHL even more exciting to watch. As hockey fans, we all win if those four + Michkov are successful. The thing is Fantilli and Carlsson play different styles and are great at it, but people think Carlsson has top play like Fantilli to be successful. Both can be successful in how they play.

The Fantilli over Carlsson sticking point doesn't bother me much since we went through this before in 2021. McTavish is looking good so far.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I don't disagree but it is natural for everry fanbase. There is a pretty good example right up the freeway in Byfield/Stutzle.

You do disagree because my point is it isn't natural.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I don’t understand this sentiment and it’s fairly pervasive. Of course there is risk in passing on Fantilli, but there also would have been risk in passing on Carlsson.

Anaheim definitely took a risk by passing on the player who was the consensus number 2 player for the entire year so hopefully they are proven right

 

[Deuce22]

Anaheim definitely took a risk by passing on the player who was the consensus number 2 player for the entire year so hopefully they are proven right

Do you ask out the girl that you think is hot or the one that all the other guys think is? Consensus is overrated.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Anaheim definitely took a risk by passing on the player who was the consensus number 2 player for the entire year so hopefully they are proven right

I don't think it's true that he was the consensus pick, even though I think I even described it that way myself. I think Fantilli was the clear favorite to be picked #2 but there was a sizable Carlsson contingent, we heard a lot in the draft rankings about how some scouts really loved Carlsson's overall game over Fantilli's dominant physicality. One ranking we read said it was closer to 50/50, right? And obviously we were in the group that preferred Carlsson. Fantilli being the favorite at #2 doesn't mean there was some special risk in not taking him. There's no extra inherent risk in not taking a guy that a lot of your opponents liked. Instead, there's the typical risk that accompanies any draft pick: maybe someone else is better. But that isn't so much a risk as a mindset.

I had a relative (years ago) who won the lottery the day (or week, whatever it was back then) after a huge jackpot had paid out, so his jackpot was comparatively tiny. Barely a million. And that's all he thought about--that someone else had won more. Is it a risk to play the lottery knowing that even if you win, someone might hit a bigger jackpot? He didn't enjoy his money, but he had it nonetheless.

 

[Deuce22]

I don't think it's true that he was the consensus pick, even though I think I even described it that way myself. I think Fantilli was the clear favorite to be picked #2 but there was a sizable Carlsson contingent, we heard a lot in the draft rankings about how some scouts really loved Carlsson's overall game over Fantilli's dominant physicality. One ranking we read said it was closer to 50/50, right? And obviously we were in the group that preferred Carlsson. Fantilli being the favorite at #2 doesn't mean there was some special risk in not taking him. There's no extra inherent risk in not taking a guy that a lot of your opponents liked. Instead, there's the typical risk that accompanies any draft pick: maybe someone else is better. But that isn't so much a risk as a mindset.

I had a relative (years ago) who won the lottery the day (or week, whatever it was back then) after a huge jackpot had paid out, so his jackpot was comparatively tiny. Barely a million. And that's all he thought about--that someone else had won more. Is it a risk to play the lottery knowing that even if you win, someone might hit a bigger jackpot? He didn't enjoy his money, but he had it nonetheless.

Not to get philosophical, but almost every decision could be assigned risk. I could argue that taking Fantilli was risky because his play style is more apt to result in injury. Or that it might be risky to take him because he might be unhappy in Southern Cal based on his preference for Columbus. I surely don't want a front office to base crucial decisions based on what others might think.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Anaheim definitely took a risk by passing on the player who was the consensus number 2 player for the entire year so hopefully they are proven right

Also would have been a risk (and dumb) to pass on the guy you think is better because “consensus”.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Do you ask out the girl that you think is hot or the one that all the other guys think is? Consensus is overrated.

Also would have been a risk (and dumb) to pass on the guy you think is better because “consensus”.

the consensus matters because it's a large sample size of opinion of people who have been watching both closely. If Chicago took Carlsson and left Anaheim to pick Bedard would you guys be saying these same things? Of course not we would be laughing at Chicago for going off the board like that, and Verbeek to date has not earned any benefit of the doubt as a talent evaluator so until he proves himself he's going to get questioned and I don't see the issue with that

 

[Kalv]

the consensus matters because it's a large sample size of opinion of people who have been watching both closely. If Chicago took Carlsson and left Anaheim to pick Bedard would you guys be saying these same things? Of course not we would be laughing at Chicago for going off the board like that, and Verbeek to date has not earned any benefit of the doubt as a talent evaluator so until he proves himself he's going to get questioned and I don't see the issue with that

Well, it matters only for hype, but not on the ice or for the team's success.

We were laughed at for the Lindholm pick until only a couple of years later people started seeing he's actually better than Dumba, Trouba, Maatta, etc. Remember the petition to fire Bob Murray because of that pick? It was because of the ''consensus" rankings, to a degree. Of course this can go bad as well, but at this point, gotta trust our scouting staff