Good point but I think Argentina put on a real soccer clinic for most of the day. The conditioning of these soccer athletes is just amazing. It probably surpasses that of every other sport except rowing and bicycling. Even Lance Armstrong would be amazed by these guys.
Humor me. Cite specific examples in games because I watched a lot of soccer this WC.
Clearly your mind is made up on this. Put down the French flag. You've already been proved wrong.
theathletic.com
theathletic.com
The standard of calling handballs changed over the years. These days calls like the one in this game are made almost every time, specially when the arm is away from the body and the ball is obviously deflected. The onus is more on players to be responsible. If you look at footage from a few decades ago you rarely see players deliberately putting their hands behind their back (or closely tucked near the body) when the opposite player is in a shooting position. Now it happens almost every time, because if the ball hits their arms when is away from the body, more often than not a handball is called. Personally I don't have any problem with that call. Or with the other two penalty calls. They weren't blatant fouls, but IMO there was sufficient contact to warrant the call.For one it wasn't a handball. It inadvertently hit the elbow from 10 feet away. Its impossible to move so quickly when the shot is from so close away. For another the shot was taken outside of the box, it wasn't even a player in box foul, and the foul took place just on the edge of the box. It was a weak awarding of penalty there and they could easily have said no, thats not sufficient to be potentially deciding the WC final.
Several calls even in this World Cup tournament looked the other way on hand, arm, elbow inadvertent touches and DID NOT award penalty kicks so what you wrote in bolded is patently false. In the actual tournament played discretion was usually deciding no call. The World Cup to this point had done a somewhat good job being judicious in the awarding of penalty kicks awarded and reducing the amount, and the amount of play acting for penalties as well. To the betterment of Football.
I certainly don't think that was going in, or that it was going to beat Martinez even if on target.
Its a chintzy way to get a tying goal in last minutes of extra time and France were falling all over the box today trying to get candy. They even got a yellow card for one of the more tawdry attempts at play acting getting shot.
Well expressed. But whether it was deemed sufficient to overturn a potential deciding goal in extra time in the WC offers its own magnitude and threshold. There was sufficient precedent and circumstance to also warrant a non call.
I wonder if they were carrying any Canada flags around in 78.
because no one really complained and just accepted it and didn't crowd the ref.
Its fair comment. But yeah players don't complain a ton on the pitch for calls awarded, because they realize no amount of complaint or pushing officials will result in the call being changed. Except for say Morocco or Netherlands... Generally teams are more worried about getting a red card if they protest too vociferously so that they don't. its not going to change a call. It NEVER does.
Your first link if for handballs on offense.Clearly your mind is made up on this. Put down the French flag. You've already been proved wrong.
You won't heed this either but I'll post it.
Accidental handball in build-up to a goal ‘no longer considered an offence’
Accidental handball in the build-up to a goal or goalscoring opportunity will “no longer be considered an offence”, football’s law-making body the International Football Association Board (IFAB) has announced. There has been much controversy surrounding the handball rule and its application...
What is the handball rule now? Explaining VAR interventions and the intricacies of the armpit and shoulder
Before the 2021-22 season began, there were several alterations to the rulebook in English football concerning handball violations
remember you were the one positing that this was a call all the time any time, anywhere. yet is hasn't been and the rules governing it have changed.
en.as.com
Soccer players don't complain?
Not a soccer guy. But it even seems more like a guessing competition than a skills competition.
But penalty kicks are caused from committing a foul inside the box, which is a dangerous spot, so the run of the play caused those, indirectly leading to the PK goals.
Did you see the non call on Gvardial inside the box, home free, onside with the ball at his feet and the goal to score? The Morocco defender clearly grabbed his arm. But no penalty kick awarded on that play which was a golden scoring chance and probably a goal.
Shoulder to shoulder challenges in the box are the goalie interference equivalent of soccer. The most subjective of calls, even with VAR involved.
its all good. I think where we differed is in me saying that there were other plays where ball directed off arm that were not called. You maintained that when a player has his arm away from torso that the calls get made. I don't have the replays at my disposal so its possible that we're both right. Thanks for the responses, sorry that WC gets me a bit hyped up.Your first link if for handballs on offense.
The second is behind a paywall so I'm not even gonna look at that one.
I'll just leave my own link explaining the rule for you:
& here's the pertinent part for defensive situations in case it doesn't show for some reason:The handball rule in soccer explained: Why is it only sometimes a foul?
What are the penalties and the consequences in the game when a football player during the action breaks the handball rule in soccer, explained.
Handballs in defensive scenarios
We frequently see players fold their arms behind the back or in the sides of the body, in a so-called “natural position” when defending near an attacker’s cross or shot.
It is usually a handball if:
EXPLANATION: An arm extended laterally or vertically can make the body unnaturally bigger, covering more space than necessary. Consequently, a handball in an “unnatural position” can be called, even if it is not done deliberately.
- The ball touches the arm, or the hand is extended in an unnatural position.
It is usually not a handball if:
- The ball makes contact with the arm/hand in a “natural position.”
- The ball accidentally makes contact with a defender’s hand/arm inside their penalty area from a deflection, a teammate’s clearance, or similar.
- The ball makes contact with a player’s supporting arm/hand. A player who falls to the ground or goes into a sliding tackle must protect himself using the arm’s support. Therefore it is usually not a handball if the ball hits the supporting arm/hand. On the contrary, it can lead to a handball situation if a player goes into a sliding tackle with his arm extended without using it as support.
Soccer players don't complain?
This can't be serious. They complain way more about everything than any hockey player or coach ever has.
They didn't complain much on this one because they realized that, while it was unfortunate, it was a legit penalty & would be a penalty every time for them if the roles were reversed.
I have way more of a problem with the first penalty they were given than this one. That one was debatable but this one wasn't IMO.
@The Moose said it perfectly. The only thing I'd add is that nowadays with VAR it's getting called every time.
& FTR I had no dog in this fight & am perfectly happy that Argentina won & they deserved to win IMO.
It wasn't shoulder to shoulder. it was grabbing arm from behind. Even in hockey thats a penalty shot. In Womens soccer its the equivalent of grabbing a pony tail from behind, in the box, and getting a kick in the box for it..
That Messi is somewhat diminutive in height makes it all the more special. He has to do his magic with brilliance and while giving up height in a game where headers and height can be important and where long leg spints can burn. Theres a tactical aspect to Messi, and Messi runs through traffic that is just unparalleled. He's the best without being afforded the best physical frame. For instance Ronaldo has every stature advantage, and the potential speed that comes with having longer strides but Messi better than all. Even at age and Mbappe in prime, Messi was better. The two Penalty kick goals cloud that on the scoreline but in match play Messi better, and won it for Argentina.
Lol I also figured Canada wouldn’t win a game. I was hoping England or Netherlands would surprise but no such luckI pegged the winner in both the Bronze medal game and the Final.
Also pegged Canada losing all their games and not effing Croatia.
Unfortunately I also pegged germany going out at group stage. double sigh.
This kind of thing explains how you also happen to be an Ottawa fan. Don't take up betting.
Hey!! Ottawa is hot right nowThis kind of thing explains how you also happen to be an Ottawa fan. Don't take up betting.
they’re playing better than the oilers lately. sadly.
