GDT: 2022-23 season game 44 LA Kings vs Edmonton Oilers @7:30pm 1/9/23

[Sol]

I can understand that and I'd like to see his numbers start to come up too but I think we have to acknowledge his growth, too. There's confidence, defense, speed, and checking there, and several goals recently were the results of his efforts. I know it sounds like a moral victory to point out his tertiary assists but he is a couple of stick tics away from several points over our winning streak.

I've just seen the bust word farrrr too much over the last few pages when, outside of last night, he was by and large growing game by game.

I don’t know about him being a bust just yet but there’s a lot I don’t like about his game. I think his speed is definitely overrated and you can probably tie that down to the fact he’s extremely thin for his size. I really dislike the fact that he plays so small and it’s extremely visible that he lacks a lot of strength for the NHL. I am extremely concerned by the way he skates too because he’s far too hunched over and he’s asking for a concussion. I think If you’re to argue he’s got speed then you will probably see that go once and IF he puts on some serious muscle. There’s a lot of immaturity in his game understandably but the progress in him is very slow which is probably the biggest complaint everyone has. He’s a decent shot but I don’t think his skating is anything special. His hands look ok. He does some smart things however every now and then. When he produces we will all be happy but there’s also no doubt hes developing very slow. I wonder how strong he ends up becoming and how much his “speed” will suffer for it. There’s reason thin lanky guys tend to be fast.

There have been few Jeff Carters in the NHL for a reason.

 

[kings11]

FWIW, I'm not worried about Byfield. He had a rough game yesterday after he took the high hit, but I look at how well a player responds and plays in the roles they're given. Byfield, on the top line, has created several chances, won puck battles, and at times the puck just hasn't gone in. He's growing into the role, and hopefully he can pot one soon so he will see the hard work rewarded.

His fly-by poke checks are significantly reduced. He's engaged in puck battles more, and winning them. Sometimes he still gets himself in trouble, but he's trending in the right direction.


I dunno. I think Palffy was a better shooter, but the way Fiala moves around the ice and finds open seams is pretty remarkable.

Here ya go.. Ziggy would literally be a top 5 player today

 

[Fishhead]

Points don't always equal effectiveness.

On the first line Byfield has been dangerous for the most part. He's set up Kopitar on some absolute beauts but he just didn't finish. He's using his body more, he's using his speed more. He's still a bit timid and lost at times but his mistakes have really been reduced.

You can see the talent and ability, the confidence is coming. He needs to figure out how to best use his body and reach to his advantage. It takes tall guys a bit to figure that out because they are lanky when they come in.

A few things have been shown with his play though:

His low TOI isn't why he is not scoring. The problem with his low TOI is he needs to experience more situations against pros, but he could be out there 20 minutes a night and probably not see a noticeable production increase given his current play.

Playing down the lineup isn't why he wasn't scoring. He looks great with guys that go to the front and can shoot. Putting him with Fiala and Vilardi is a fabulous idea. Iafallo can move to Kopitar's line where we know he can play.

He's not being terribly mismanaged by the coaches. There really are few reasons he should be on the wing with our two leading scorers from last year, yet they put him there. Rather than sit him, they are trying to get him on the ice more. This is good.

He just needs time, that's it. Once a puck goes in for him I expect he will loosen up and the gates will open a bit.

 

[Sol]

Points don't always equal effectiveness.

On the first line Byfield has been dangerous for the most part. He's set up Kopitar on some absolute beauts but he just didn't finish. He's using his body more, he's using his speed more. He's still a bit timid and lost at times but his mistakes have really been reduced.

You can see the talent and ability, the confidence is coming. He needs to figure out how to best use his body and reach to his advantage. It takes tall guys a bit to figure that out because they are lanky when they come in.

A few things have been shown with his play though:

His low TOI isn't why he is not scoring. The problem with his low TOI is he needs to experience more situations against pros, but he could be out there 20 minutes a night and probably not see a noticeable production increase given his current play.

Playing down the lineup isn't why he wasn't scoring. He looks great with guys that go to the front and can shoot. Putting him with Fiala and Vilardi is a fabulous idea. Iafallo can move to Kopitar's line where we know he can play.

He's not being terribly mismanaged by the coaches. There really are few reasons he should be on the wing with our two leading scorers from last year, yet they put him there. Rather than sit him, they are trying to get him on the ice more. This is good.

He just needs time, that's it. Once a puck goes in for him I expect he will loosen up and the gates will open a bit.

Well. lets hope that happens. I think there's a lot he needs to figure out mentally and physically. If he does that will be great. He hasn't yet. We're all hoping he does but there's legit reasons for concern however.

Here ya go.. Ziggy would literally be a top 5 player today

Palffy is and was my favorite King of all time... While he was a better goal scorer, I think Fiala is a better player overall. His agility, stick handling, playmaking and shooting are all ridiculously good.

 

[Surf Nutz]

The scouting consensus was Stutzle is mostly polished and ready to contribute but Byfield had more upside. Scouts get enamored with individual attributes like speed, hands, size, shot and 6'5 center w hands is very appealing. He lacks the strong will you see in guys like Durzi or Fiala.. but not everybody has it. He seems like a guy that wants to fit in and not try to stand out or take risks... so developing him is an art form.. he probably needs to wade in the kitty pool a bit longer - just doesnt seem ready to breakout yet.


For sure those 2 - Id like to hear how Tage Thompson suddenly emerged from someone who understands his development... here's a thread where people threw out late bloomers thats pretty interesting: What are some late bloomers in the NHL?

Well stated, true with examples!

 

[kings11]

Well. lets hope that happens. I think there's a lot he needs to figure out mentally and physically. If he does that will be great. He hasn't yet. We're all hoping he does but there's legit reasons for concern however.


Palffy is and was my favorite King of all time... While he was a better goal scorer, I think Fiala is a better player overall. His agility, stick handling, playmaking and shooting are all ridiculously good.

You do realize he achieved massive scoring totals when healthy during the dead puck era right? Palffy’s handles were much better than Fiala’s. Kevin is more physical but Palffy was a much better skilled player at everything else you mentioned.

 

[Nasti]

Well. lets hope that happens. I think there's a lot he needs to figure out mentally and physically. If he does that will be great. He hasn't yet. We're all hoping he does but there's legit reasons for concern however.


Palffy is and was my favorite King of all time... While he was a better goal scorer, I think Fiala is a better player overall. His agility, stick handling, playmaking and shooting are all ridiculously good.

With the exception of size, Ziggy had all the tools and was pretty decent defensively. He was leading the league in scoring before he went down with a season ending injury in 2004. Fiala isn’t there yet.

 

[johnjm22]

I do somewhat agree but I’d like to see him with Fiala and Vilardi before sending him back down.

Moore-Kopitar-Kempe
Iafallo-Danault-Arvidsson
Fiala-Byfield-Vilardi
JAD-Lizotte-Kaliyev
Lemieux

If Fiala gets Byfield going and they get chemistry that’s 4 dangerous lines. The 4th line right now isn’t that effective without Lizotte and Kaliyev.

I'd like these lines, and I'd like to see Fiala/Byfield/Vilardi together as well.

But what about Kupari? I think he needs to stay in the NHL.

 

[Sol]

With the exception of size, Ziggy had all the tools and was pretty decent defensively. He was leading the league in scoring before he went down with a season ending injury in 2004. Fiala isn’t there yet.

Yeah. That’s fair, but I’m biased when it comes to different eras and the average skill level around the league. Palffy was great for sure, but I see a lot Palffy in Fiala in a tougher league in my opinion. And I don’t personally remember Palffy being as good with the puck as Fiala is now. But I was pretty young so he might have been.

 

[BigKing]

He's still very young and he was definitely a boy playing with men in his first AHL stint but I really hated how soft he was in his first pro year. This isn't gauged by fighting and hitting but more like how he would treat getting high-sticked like the stick blade came from an open window of the Texas School Book Depository.

He's a soft player but my concern is that it is mentally as well as physically. A week ago I was praising his play in the Dallas game because he was actually using his body but that's the whole point: you draft a speed/size/skill specimen because a guy that size with speed and skill is a cheat code. If he doesn't use his size then the whole package becomes lacking.

If you can't see the improvements in his actual game then you aren't watching. Agree with KP about the fly-by poke checks being lessened for more of a slash/bump move on the forecheck with a sprinkle of an actual hit. He's actually slowed down and made some nice passes while on the Kopitar line and the PP as opposed to just spazzing.

I worry about the mental side of it though. This was my thesis at the WJC and it still holds: he plays different when he's the undisputed dude and he's deferential to the vets. He carried that Sudbury team because he had to but then he is a youngster on the WJC team and he just accepts his 3rd line role and doesn't impose his will. At the NHL level, he's generally looked scared IMO.

Now, he is trying more things with the puck and maybe he just needs to pop a couple and we see a quicker progression upwards. It's just a big thing with a majority of the prospects: where are the balls? You'd really like a 2OA to play with the swagger of someone who is supposed to be an elite player in his age group. Like, give him some Brandt Clarke energy for Christ's sake.

 

[johnjm22]

Palffy had 45 goal season in the dead puck era. He had a season where he finished 5th in points.

Fiala has never scored 40 goals, and has never finished higher than 22nd overall league wide in points.

 

[Nasti]

Palffy had 45 goal season in the dead puck era. He had a season where he finished 5th in points.

Fiala has never scored 40 goals, and has never finished higher than 22nd overall league wide in points.

I was too young to remember Dionne but outside of Gretzky, I’ve never seen a more skilled King than Palffy.

 

[Kurrilino]

I like how you spend your time dumping on Byfield but now that I’m doing the same you’re defending him. RJ is smiling at you right now I’m sure of it. There’s much bigger issues in New York than the players they draft. Kakko busted and now so is Laf. Stutzle was considered to be the most polished with Laf. And then the Rangers amazing development kicked in. You can ask the rangers board yourself if they think that Lafreniere was handled properly.


Yep, a gamble that hasn’t payed off. The unholy trinity is rambling off talking about Jokinen a dude who’s 44 years old right now. I pray for the intelligence of this board when they use the exceptions vs typical patterns. We got a dude who thinks he knows hockey because he played NHL 13 Be a Gm mode on his PlayStation, a dude who’s holistically incoherent at any and all moments, then we got a dude who’s probably the most bad faith debater on the Kings board who’s ever existed. And they think they know hockey.

Hell it might be that byfield turns out to be a great player in 3-4 years. But how many years do you end up losing just for him to get there? I don’t think people realize that’s not a good thing for him to be a late bloomer. Especially for a second overall.

I know i am always in the minority but i really like Byfield, same way i liked Vilardi.

You can see all the tools that are already there, the speed, the overview, the stick skills.
Very soon he will grow into his body and flat out dominate.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with picking Byfield.
Hell, he even makes Kopitar looking like a hockey player, this can't be pointed out enough

Maybe i am eating crow at some point but not today

 

[Surf Nutz]

I do somewhat agree but I’d like to see him with Fiala and Vilardi before sending him back down.

Moore-Kopitar-Kempe
Iafallo-Danault-Arvidsson
Fiala-Byfield-Vilardi
JAD-Lizotte-Kaliyev
Lemieux

If Fiala gets Byfield going and they get chemistry that’s 4 dangerous lines. The 4th line right now isn’t that effective without Lizotte and Kaliyev.

Fiala and Kempe have bitchin chemistry thats who I want to see with Byfield. Two vets with the young gun and the coach structuring them to put in an earnest defensive effort. Start at 3c , potential #1 line. It will probably be so, some day.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yeah. That’s fair, but I’m biased when it comes to different eras and the average skill level around the league. Palffy was great for sure, but I see a lot Palffy in Fiala in a tougher league in my opinion. And I don’t personally remember Palffy being as good with the puck as Fiala is now. But I was pretty young so he might have been.

Tougher league ? Tougher....how?

 

[Sol]

I know i am always in the minority but i really like Byfield, same way i liked Vilardi.

You can see all the tools that are already there, the speed, the overview, the stick skills.
Very soon he will grow into his body and flat out dominate.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with picking Byfield.
Hell, he even makes Kopitar looking like a hockey player, this can't be pointed out enough

Maybe i am eating crow at some point but not today

To me they’re not comparable really. Vilardi from day one showed immense skill in tight with the puck and around the net while byfield has difficulty holding onto it

 

[ibleedkings]

FWIW, I'm not worried about Byfield. He had a rough game yesterday after he took the high hit, but I look at how well a player responds and plays in the roles they're given. Byfield, on the top line, has created several chances, won puck battles, and at times the puck just hasn't gone in. He's growing into the role, and hopefully he can pot one soon so he will see the hard work rewarded.

His fly-by poke checks are significantly reduced. He's engaged in puck battles more, and winning them. Sometimes he still gets himself in trouble, but he's trending in the right direction.


I dunno. I think Palffy was a better shooter, but the way Fiala moves around the ice and finds open seams is pretty remarkable.

Palffy was on another level I believe. There was that season he had 85 points and the next closest teammate (Armstrong)? was in the 30's. Palffy had zero support here, certainly much less than Fiala has currently.

I said when the trade went down though that he was gonna be our new Palffy.

 

[Docgonzo]

I'd like these lines, and I'd like to see Fiala/Byfield/Vilardi together as well.

But what about Kupari? I think he needs to stay in the NHL.

I like Kupari but with that lineup, because he can pass through waivers, I send him back to Ontario for the time being. Unless the want to trade JAD.

 

[Kurrilino]

I like Kupari but with that lineup, because he can pass through waivers, I send him back to Ontario for the time being. Unless the want to trade JAD.

IMO JAD brings nothing to the table and shows no progress, he might be better somewhere else

 

[kilowatt]

I’d love to see Turcotte get a shot next to Kopitar and Kempe too. I think Byfield still needs some seasoning to be honest.

Turcotte - Kopitar - Kempe
Iafallo - Danault - Arvidsson
Fiala - Kupari - Vilardi
Moore - Lizotte - Kaliyev

Four potentially dangerous lines.

 

[kingsfan28]

All the media was talking about how frustrated the kings made McDavid last night. They did and he was.

 

[kingsfan28]

I'd like these lines, and I'd like to see Fiala/Byfield/Vilardi together as well.

But what about Kupari? I think he needs to stay in the NHL.

That will eventually happen or maybe iafollo -byfield-valardi. they were real good before injuries. Once moore and kaliev return, the lines will have to change.

 

[Sparky206]

This is where I wonder if I'm watching the same player as everyone else.

He was having a tough game before he got his bell rung then was mostly bad after--but by and large he's been a huge reason for the 1st line's and PP's success when he's been out there lately. But we are ringing him up pretty harshly for last night when the larger sample size has been the last 5 or so games of great play.

If anything, I've seen things in his game i DIDNT expect at the NHL level, like him just straight puck thieving anyone from half a zone away

He reminds me of Iafollos first season, doing all the right things, winning pucks and making plays but the production just didnt come until 40 games into the season.

He just needs time to adjust and get comfortable, I think a lot of it is mental where he needs to be "the guy" and if hes not its hard for him to adjust and make an impact from the chances hes afforded when other guys decided to defer to him and he gets an opportunity.

I get it, I've played sports where I was the guy in the team I was in and would dominate most games single handedly. Then I go join a team where I know one other player up against the same competition, other players have already established that they are "the guy" in the team and I'm largly ineffective. I can be in the right spots and make the right plays but I was rarely in a position to create my own plays and dictate the game rather than be a part of it.

It was evident in the WJC, he got put in a defensive role by the coach and he played it flawlessly because that was what he was asked to do. He got an opportunity for whatever in one of the 7 games to dictate the game, his confidence boosted and he put up 5 points, but other than that he was offensivly ineffective due to his role.

Regardless he has all the tools to be a 1C, he has absolutly unbelieveable agility before you even consider hes 6'5, wins pucks and has great vision.

 

[kilowatt]

Given how effective Kupari has been on the penalty kill, I don’t think we should send him down right now.

 

[KINGS17]

He's still very young and he was definitely a boy playing with men in his first AHL stint but I really hated how soft he was in his first pro year. This isn't gauged by fighting and hitting but more like how he would treat getting high-sticked like the stick blade came from an open window of the Texas School Book Depository.

He's a soft player but my concern is that it is mentally as well as physically. A week ago I was praising his play in the Dallas game because he was actually using his body but that's the whole point: you draft a speed/size/skill specimen because a guy that size with speed and skill is a cheat code. If he doesn't use his size then the whole package becomes lacking.

If you can't see the improvements in his actual game then you aren't watching. Agree with KP about the fly-by poke checks being lessened for more of a slash/bump move on the forecheck with a sprinkle of an actual hit. He's actually slowed down and made some nice passes while on the Kopitar line and the PP as opposed to just spazzing.

I worry about the mental side of it though. This was my thesis at the WJC and it still holds: he plays different when he's the undisputed dude and he's deferential to the vets. He carried that Sudbury team because he had to but then he is a youngster on the WJC team and he just accepts his 3rd line role and doesn't impose his will. At the NHL level, he's generally looked scared IMO.

Now, he is trying more things with the puck and maybe he just needs to pop a couple and we see a quicker progression upwards. It's just a big thing with a majority of the prospects: where are the balls? You'd really like a 2OA to play with the swagger of someone who is supposed to be an elite player in his age group. Like, give him some Brandt Clarke energy for Christ's sake.

The entire organization needs to stop deferring to Kopitar, and that includes Byfield.