Prospect Info: 2022-23 Oilers Prospects Thread

[tiger_80]

Not and Oil prospect anymore but Reid Schaefer doesn’t seem to be having a good start to his pro career.

It’s early and he was always going to be a project but never really liked the pick at the time. Was a product of being a man in a boys league on a really deep team

They did good to unload him. That whole trading down thing to draft him was out of left field. Ciarelli and Holland wasted so many assets.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

They did good to unload him. That whole trading down thing to draft him was out of left field. Ciarelli and Holland wasted so many assets.

You're aware they traded down to offload the Kassian contract right?

 

[tiger_80]

You're aware they traded down to offload the Kassian contract right?

and who created that Kassian contract mess that he had to trade assets to get rid of the problem?

 

[North]

and who created that Kassian contract mess that he had to trade assets to get rid of the problem?

It’s almost like GMs are not perfect.

 

[tiger_80]

It’s almost like GMs are not perfect.

Chiarelli and Holland have probably been well below average in terms of wasted assets, bad signings, poor draft choices.

 

[tiger_80]

Chiarelli and Holland have probably been well below average in terms of wasted assets, bad signings, poor draft choices. Since the McDavid draft only Bouchard lived up to his draft potential. Jay-Poo, Lucic/Neal, Reinhart trade, Broberg, Athanasiou trade, Kassian contract, Kostin and Yamomoto given for free, Campbell. And Brown takes the first prize.

 

[North]

Chiarelli and Holland have probably been well below average in terms of wasted assets, bad signings, poor draft choices.

Not sure why we’re including Chiarelli when the discussion was about Holland.

 

[Fourier]

Not sure why we’re including Chiarelli when the discussion was about Holland.

In a way the two are intertwined. WRT the cap Chiarelli's mistakes put Holland in a bit of a pickle which he then proceeded to make worse. This has been a big factor in the way Holland managed assets and picks.

 

[Aerchon]

In a way the two are intertwined. WRT the cap Chiarelli's mistakes put Holland in a bit of a pickle which he then proceeded to make worse. This has been a big factor in the way Holland managed assets and picks.

Chiarelli gets blamed too much. He had some absolutely brutal moves but as per cap management I take him over Holland all day everyday. Extremely low bar.

Neither are good enough. Both fail despite an embarrassment of riches.

Holland and cap management don't belong in the same sentence without... OMFG bad or he's just gone plaid for how bad his cap management is.

 

[Fourier]

Chiarelli gets blamed too much. He had some absolutely brutal moves but as per cap management I take him over Holland all day everyday. Extremely low bar.

Neither are good enough. Both fail despite an embarrassment of riches.

Holland and cap management don't belong in the same sentence without... OMFG bad or he's just gone plaid for how bad his cap management is.

I don't see an advantage either way. Neither was very good but Holland has even had some very good signings to help overcome some of his mistakes. Hyman and Nuge are big bargains. Skinner's deal was actually pretty good given his top 3 finish in the Calder. Contrast this with the Koskinen deal. People rag on the Nurse deal but it really is only modestly above fair value. Aside from Draisaitl and to a lesser degree McDavid what were Chia's wins on the cap management side?

Chiarelli did nothing to shed his mistakes other than trading Lucic for Neal. But there were ways he could have negated the impact of the Neal contract outside of a blind buyout which will be comparable to the Campbell buyout if it happens. Obviously the Brown deal is not turning out at all. But for this year it was at least a sign of some sort of creativity, something both Holland and Chiarelli lacked. If you want a counter for this deal with Chia look no further than the Manning trade. Both deals end up with similar wasted cap space but even with how Brown is playing now Brown will have contributed more to the team than Manning which is saying something. Chia also could have done things to mitigate the Sekera buyout and had no reason what so ever to buyout Gryba. Then there was the Fayne deal. Chia didn't sign it but he also had no answer for it.

It is reasonable to suggest that one was better than the other.

 

[Senor Catface]

Chiarelli gets blamed too much. He had some absolutely brutal moves but as per cap management I take him over Holland all day everyday. Extremely low bar.

Neither are good enough. Both fail despite an embarrassment of riches.

Holland and cap management don't belong in the same sentence without... OMFG bad or he's just gone plaid for how bad his cap management is.

No, he gets blamed the exact right amount.

Turning Eberle, 25 goal scorer, into Ryan Spooner, trading Maroon for pizza boxes, Justin Schultz for a 3rd, losing two sure-fire NHLers for Griffin Reinhart, and the Taylor Hall trade destroyed the teams depth for half a decade.

Holland has made some awful cap decisions, but at least he's put together a team that is capable and able of winning.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when people still defend Chia. The rosters are night and day.

 

[belair]

I don't see an advantage either way. Neither was very good but Holland has even had some very good signings to help overcome some of his mistakes. Hyman and Nuge are big bargains. Skinner's deal was actually pretty good given his top 3 finish in the Calder. Contrast this with the Koskinen deal. People rag on the Nurse deal but it really is only modestly above fair value. Aside from Draisaitl and to a lesser degree McDavid what were Chia's wins on the cap management side?

Chiarelli did nothing to shed his mistakes other than trading Lucic for Neal. But there were ways he could have negated the impact of the Neal contract outside of a blind buyout which will be comparable to the Campbell buyout if it happens. Obviously the Brown deal is not turning out at all. But for this year it was at least a sign of some sort of creativity, something both Holland and Chiarelli lacked. If you want a counter for this deal with Chia look no further than the Manning trade. Both deals end up with similar wasted cap space but even with how Brown is playing now Brown will have contributed more to the team than Manning which is saying something. Chia also could have done things to mitigate the Sekera buyout and had no reason what so ever to buyout Gryba. Then there was the Fayne deal. Chia didn't sign it but he also had no answer for it.

It is reasonable to suggest that one was better than the other.

It's also reasonable to suggest that the team's insistence to push towards being competitive instead of retooling following the 2015 draft was ultimately what put both of these GMs behind the eight ball when it came to filling out the roster over the McDavid era.

The Reinhart trade and the Hall for Larsson swap seemed like two very desperate attempts at a quick fix defense. I can't help but look above the GM seeing those trades in hindsight.

Katz wouldn't have hired Chiarelli if Pete mentioned anything about a rebuild or a retool leading up to the McDavid pick. But the smarter GM would have auctioned off Hall and Eberle (and probably Nuge) at top dollar early on for futures. Doing so would've eventually led to an asset rich Oilers team that didn't necessarily have to play with desperate trades and UFA signings to fill out the depth of their roster.

It took them eight years to get to a truly sustainable competitive level anyways.

 

[Fourier]

It's also reasonable to suggest that the team's insistence to push towards being competitive instead of retooling following the 2015 draft was ultimately what put both of these GMs behind the eight ball when it came to filling out the roster over the McDavid era.

The Reinhart trade and the Hall for Larsson swap seemed like two very desperate attempts at a quick fix defense. I can't help but look above the GM seeing those trades in hindsight.

Katz wouldn't have hired Chiarelli if Pete mentioned anything about a rebuild or a retool leading up to the McDavid pick. But the smarter GM would have auctioned off Hall and Eberle (and probably Nuge) at top dollar early on for futures. Doing so would've eventually led to an asset rich Oilers team that didn't necessarily have to play with desperate trades and UFA signings to fill out the depth of their roster.

It took them eight years to get to a truly sustainable competitive level anyways.

Part of the problem stems from the team having drafted forwards first. If you look at teams like Chicago, LA and even to a degree Pittsburgh they all had home grown true #1 defensemen early in their window. If Kelfbom had been healthy things might have been different even though he was not on the same level as guys like Keith, Doughty or Letang.

Hall, Eberle and Nuge all had decent contracts for what they brought to the table. They should have been able to keep at least two of them. Earlier in their careers it was mistakes made to try and fill out the defense that was often a big issue. Not only was Hall for Larson a desperate move, but they also have a long list of failed attempts to fill in the defense. Ference, Fayne, Reinhart, Nikitin and picks like David Musil who busted and Erik Gustaffson and Marino that never played for the team but really returned nothing of long term value. Even Kesselring may turn out to be another in a line of failed moves wrt the defense.

 

[belair]

Part of the problem stems from the team having drafted forwards first. If you look at teams like Chicago, LA and even to a degree Pittsburgh they all had home grown true #1 defensemen early in their window. If Kelfbom had been healthy things might have been different even though he was not on the same level as guys like Keith, Doughty or Letang.

Hall, Eberle and Nuge all had decent contracts for what they brought to the table. They should have been able to keep at least two of them. Earlier in their careers it was mistakes made to try and fill out the defense that was often a big issue. Not only was Hall for Larson a desperate move, but they also have a long list of failed attempts to fill in the defense. Ference, Fayne, Reinhart, Nikitin and picks like David Musil who busted and Erik Gustaffson and Marino that never played for the team but really returned nothing of long term value. Even Kesselring may turn out to be another in a line of failed moves wrt the defense.

I'll always be of the belief that the McDavid draft lottery win signaled the death of the Hall-era rebuild. Anybody that had a heavy contract at that time needed to go and the Oilers needed to do what Chicago is doing around Bedard now hoarding futures while purging long-term salary commitments.

 

[Stoneman89]

Not defending Chia by any stretch of the imagination, but he had both McDavid and Drai during their young formative years. They were great then, but certainly not what they've become, and for Holland to have 2 lynchpins like that in their mature maximum years is a large advantage.

 

[Fourier]

I'll always be of the belief that the McDavid draft lottery win signaled the death of the Hall-era rebuild. Anybody that had a heavy contract at that time needed to go and the Oilers needed to do what Chicago is doing around Bedard now hoarding futures while purging long-term salary commitments.

Chicago is really in a different situation though. They moved out their old guys before they drafted Bedard. They were in full tank mode all last year. Had they not lucked out with the Bedard pick they could have been looking at a 7 year rebuild.

When the Oilers got McDavid, Hall was only 23. He was signed to a very good contract. Nuge was 22 and also signed to a solid long term deal. The problem is that they wasted Hall and Eberle to some degree in the first place and almost completely in the second case.

The Eberle deal was reasonable but the follow-up was brutal. After the deal it left them with a defense of Klefbom, Sekera, Nurse, Larsson, Benning and Russell. Two years later that defense was completely decimated.

 

[Fourier]

Not defending Chia by any stretch of the imagination, but he had both McDavid and Drai during their young formative years. They were great then, but certainly not what they've become, and for Holland to have 2 lynchpins like that in their mature maximum years is a large advantage.

One aspect that needs to be considered is how the cap evolved over the periods where Chia and Holland were in control. During Chia's time the cap was rising significantly. Holland started with a cap of $81.5M with a cap of $79.5M the year before. The cap is now at $83.5M. Had covid not happened it would be probably $95M or so. Chia started with a cap of $71.4 coming off of $69M and ended with a cap of $79.5M.

 

[Aerchon]

No, he gets blamed the exact right amount.

Turning Eberle, 25 goal scorer, into Ryan Spooner, trading Maroon for pizza boxes, Justin Schultz for a 3rd, losing two sure-fire NHLers for Griffin Reinhart, and the Taylor Hall trade destroyed the teams depth for half a decade.

Holland has made some awful cap decisions, but at least he's put together a team that is capable and able of winning.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when people still defend Chia. The rosters are night and day.

It's also reasonable to suggest that the team's insistence to push towards being competitive instead of retooling following the 2015 draft was ultimately what put both of these GMs behind the eight ball when it came to filling out the roster over the McDavid era.

The Reinhart trade and the Hall for Larsson swap seemed like two very desperate attempts at a quick fix defense. I can't help but look above the GM seeing those trades in hindsight.

Katz wouldn't have hired Chiarelli if Pete mentioned anything about a rebuild or a retool leading up to the McDavid pick. But the smarter GM would have auctioned off Hall and Eberle (and probably Nuge) at top dollar early on for futures. Doing so would've eventually led to an asset rich Oilers team that didn't necessarily have to play with desperate trades and UFA signings to fill out the depth of their roster.

It took them eight years to get to a truly sustainable competitive level anyways.

Old stuff but it is funny how Holland gets defended in a... bias manner where Chiarelli does not. Both suck balls. 2016 was superior under Chiarelli until the last 2 under Hilland.

Eberle for Strome was a good to great move. Reinhart was siapected/reportedly Mac T's move. Better drafting. Hall for Larsson for anyone who followed Larsson prior to his dad dying and his game falling apart was... absolutely a good move on paper. Both kind of suck since the trade minus one year each anyways.

A lot of fans were attached to suspect players like Eberle and Hall and just scape goat Chiarelli above and beyond what he rightfully deserves... which is still a lot.

 

[McDNicks17]

Copponi scored again last night. 22 points in 19 games. No video though since it was an away game.

They play UMass again at home tonight.

 

[Senor Catface]

Old stuff but it is funny how Holland gets defended in a... bias manner where Chiarelli does not. Both suck balls. 2016 was superior under Chiarelli until the last 2 under Hilland.

Eberle for Strome was a good to great move. Reinhart was siapected/reportedly Mac T's move. Better drafting. Hall for Larsson for anyone who followed Larsson prior to his dad dying and his game falling apart was... absolutely a good move on paper. Both kind of suck since the trade minus one year each anyways.

A lot of fans were attached to suspect players like Eberle and Hall and just scape goat Chiarelli above and beyond what he rightfully deserves... which is still a lot.

Bit revionist.

It wasn't simply Eberle for Strome because Chia moved on from Strome so soon. The end result was Spooner. Eberle for...Spooner.

Chai was GM when the Reinhart trade was made. It doesn't matter whose "move" it was. He was the guy in charge.

Hall for Larsson was a loss. Larsson was good, but Hall won the Hart trophy. He was one of the best forwards at the time. Was Larsson one of the best defenseman? It's about losing value.

How come you didn't mention Maroon and Schultz for nothing?

Fact of the matter is, one GM destroyed our team depth, and the other has improved it. (Before any goal posts get moved, Holland is a bad cap GM, yes)

 

[McDNicks17]

Stonehouse with a couple assists.





Copponi scored again too. 3 goals in his last 3 games.

 

[FanOfSadTeam]

Looking at the 2020 draft, we really dropped the ball on picking Holloway.

 

[aspin3]

Looking at the 2020 draft, we really dropped the ball on picking Holloway.

How so?

 

[FanOfSadTeam]

How so?

Well, just look at the production from the rest of the 1st round class

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Looking at the 2020 draft, we really dropped the ball on picking Holloway.

Too early to say that. I see potential in Holloway, he just needs to stay healthy to start fulfilling it.