2022-23 Junior Hockey Additions and Subtractions

[Barclay Donaldson]

Filtering this down to the "new Tier 2 organizations", thoughts or insight into these groups (coaches, management teams, facilities)?

Coaches
-WBS: Vaillancourt has been around the block a few times despite being a young coach. Not sure whether that is something good or bad. His one Tier 2 look for the Wilderness in the NAHL didn't impress, but they were also rebuilding. Success at the Tier 3 level is 50/50 for success at Tier 2.
-Mercer: Broderick knows the organization very well, he knows midgets very well. He will likely translate this over to the NCDC

Management
-WBS: owned by the rink. They don't skimp on much
-Mercer: I believe they are also owned by the rink, can't verify this however. Their youth program top to bottom is consistently one of the better ones in the Atlantic District.

Teams isn't worth much considering this is their first year and players come and go every two years or so.

Facilities: both are very nice recreational rinks. Stands for maybe a few hundred people who certainly won't be attending any of the games, but everything a junior player needs.

 

[PipeDream]

Coaches
-WBS: Vaillancourt has been around the block a few times despite being a young coach. Not sure whether that is something good or bad. His one Tier 2 look for the Wilderness in the NAHL didn't impress, but they were also rebuilding. Success at the Tier 3 level is 50/50 for success at Tier 2.
-Mercer: Broderick knows the organization very well, he knows midgets very well. He will likely translate this over to the NCDC

Management
-WBS: owned by the rink. They don't skimp on much
-Mercer: I believe they are also owned by the rink, can't verify this however. Their youth program top to bottom is consistently one of the better ones in the Atlantic District.

Teams isn't worth much considering this is their first year and players come and go every two years or so.

Facilities: both are very nice recreational rinks. Stands for maybe a few hundred people who certainly won't be attending any of the games, but everything a junior player needs.

I believe Mercer NCDC team is owned by the Black Bears Sports Group (which means they are owned by the rink I suppose) and will play out of ProSkate in Monmouth Junction, NJ, which is a different rink than the Mercer youth program skates out of (Ice Land)?

 

[Captain Crash]

At least two teams have quietly vanished from the USPHL Premier: Pittsburgh Vengeance and Lake Erie Bighorns. Both were initially part of the schedule for 22-23 earlier this summer.

 

[JMCx4]

At least two teams have quietly vanished from the USPHL Premier: Pittsburgh Vengeance and Lake Erie Bighorns. Both were initially part of the schedule for 22-23 earlier this summer.

Maybe the Pittsburgh club's name caught up to them.

 

[mk80]

At least two teams have quietly vanished from the USPHL Premier: Pittsburgh Vengeance and Lake Erie Bighorns. Both were initially part of the schedule for 22-23 earlier this summer.

Good catch.

 

[JMCx4]

Back story according to Chris Dilks @ SB Nation.

 

[mk80]

Back story according to Chris Dilks @ SB Nation.

The usual case of not icing a full roster gets another team.

 

[PCSPounder]

The formation of the NCDC is what sparked the NAHL's push for a legitimate East Coast division. Wouldn't be hard to imagine the NCDC West does the same.

Battle for real estate has slowed down because the NAHL won the battle. The truly legitimate NCAA D1 prospects are going NAHL now instead of USPHL.

Now if I can only find signs of the NAHL making headway in the Northwest.

The NCDC has four good-sized buildings out of 6 and the other two are passable.

Whereas… Bellingham has the space, maybe, and otherwise there’s a serious set of construction projects that need to happen. Not seeing it right now. The rumors dried up here.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Now if I can only find signs of the NAHL making headway in the Northwest.

The NCDC has four good-sized buildings out of 6 and the other two are passable.

Whereas… Bellingham has the space, maybe, and otherwise there’s a serious set of construction projects that need to happen. Not seeing it right now. The rumors dried up here.

Good-sized buildings doesn't matter for the NCDC. Their business model doesn't require ticket sales or fan support, anything that is there is just a bonus. They are funded by player dues from other USPHL teams. It really expands their ability to fit teams in places where the NAHL couldn't be feasible.

As for signs of the NAHL making headway, what happened to the Bend, Oregon crowd which seemed so certain they were getting a rich owner gutting a mall to put rinks in? And I seem to remember Eugene getting some more serious looks as well.

 

[PCSPounder]

Good-sized buildings doesn't matter for the NCDC. Their business model doesn't require ticket sales or fan support, anything that is there is just a bonus. They are funded by player dues from other USPHL teams. It really expands their ability to fit teams in places where the NAHL couldn't be feasible.

As for signs of the NAHL making headway, what happened to the Bend, Oregon crowd which seemed so certain they were getting a rich owner gutting a mall to put rinks in? And I seem to remember Eugene getting some more serious looks as well.

The arena proposal in Eugene (well, Springfield) got press early in 2021 when that was part of one development proposal for an undeveloped riverside plot close to the Eugene border (and not far from the UO campus). The last news on that was 13 months ago, and since a smart org gives 6 month updates on plans, or tries to sell something to the public, the lack of news is damning. A ballpark proposal in Eugene has that push, for instance.

Add to that… I remember when Eugene Generals got into the USPHL. Nobody nearby, that was always a mess, they cobbled together a schedule, eventually went “dormant,” but they were behind the aforementioned development proposal. Well, now the remaining NorPac clan that still lives goes USPHL and Eugene doesn’t join them. No noise at all.

BTW… enough sleuthing was done to determine that the Bend guy who was spreading the rumor likely started it in the first place for the attention, or maybe because he thought some campaign would sway the mall or something silly like that. And a new tenant has moved into the old JC Penney space.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

enough sleuthing was done to determine that the Bend guy who was spreading the rumor likely started it in the first place for the attention, or maybe because he thought some campaign would sway the mall or something silly like that. And a new tenant has moved into the old JC Penney space.

I didn't do nearly as much sleuthing as you, but I did just enough to come to another explanation for why he started it: drug-induced delusion

 

[mk80]

Good-sized buildings doesn't matter for the NCDC. Their business model doesn't require ticket sales or fan support, anything that is there is just a bonus. They are funded by player dues from other USPHL teams. It really expands their ability to fit teams in places where the NAHL couldn't be feasible.

Technically even the NAHL has sacrificed this with teams like Janesville, Chippewa, New Mexico, Maryland, Philly, Northeast, and previously Coulee Region, all playing out of smaller rec rinks. As we know in a lot of those cases the team owners operate the rinks they play in and the youth programs underneath them.

I think for the NAHL expanding westward, it may be more beneficial to have a cluster of organizations operating like that, similar to how they added most of the East division. Rather than trying to go big right away with the Wenatchee, and Fresno type of teams.

 

[mk80]

I guess more for the 23-24 additions and subtractions but speaking of the NAHL they've rounded out the 8th team in the East division

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I guess more for the 23-24 additions and subtractions but speaking of the NAHL they've rounded out the 8th team in the East division

Well, this is a strange add.

The Rochester Jr. Americans youth program originally had teams playing in the USPHL before they left for some reason. The market was abandoned after the Rochester Monarchs of the USPHL NCDC came and left with little fanfare.

Not much room in the market with the actual Rochester Americans. I can't imagine they will grab many fans, especially playing out of a rec rink. I wouldn't be surprised to hear about them adding a NA3HL program to offset costs. Long time NHLer Brian Gionta will be on the coaching staff.

 

[mk80]

Well, this is a strange add.

The Rochester Jr. Americans youth program originally had teams playing in the USPHL before they left for some reason. The market was abandoned after the Rochester Monarchs of the USPHL NCDC came and left with little fanfare.

Not much room in the market with the actual Rochester Americans. I can't imagine they will grab many fans, especially playing out of a rec rink. I wouldn't be surprised to hear about them adding a NA3HL program to offset costs. Long time NHLer Brian Gionta will be on the coaching staff.

Seems like the owners have money to spend, and relating to the western expansion discussion above they're in a situation where the team owners own and operate the rink. I would guess the plan is to fill the roster mainly with guys playing close to home, and sell the tickets and concessions to the families. But we'll see how that plays out.

Their entire coaching/hockey ops staff brings a good hockey resume with them.

 

[PCSPounder]

Back to Eugene, just had a “so you’re saying there’s a chance” moment. But it involves Lane United FC.

They announced today that they have obtained rights (if exercised) to move up to the professional level at USL League One. To which I immediately asked if the Glenwood development plan (including the possible hockey facility) was dead. They say the plan is alive FWIW.

 

[JMCx4]

Back to Eugene, just had a “so you’re saying there’s a chance” moment. But it involves Lane United FC.

They announced today that they have obtained rights (if exercised) to move up to the professional level at USL League One. To which I immediately asked if the Glenwood development plan (including the possible hockey facility) was dead. They say the plan is alive FWIW.

This thread should be renamed "FWIW" ... truth in advertising ...

 

[PCSPounder]

I didn't do nearly as much sleuthing as you, but I did just enough to come to another explanation for why he started it: drug-induced delusion

Living in the Northwest, I’ve seen plenty of drug-induced delusion. I’ve never seen such a delusion progress to hockey.

The reason I talked about size of building was partly to muse whether these NCDC cities would be more suited to NAHL. I know making that happen is contractually another matter. Meanwhile, the cost of living in west coast cities is higher than most. Considering the number of teeth pulled to get a building built- and then sustainable (see history of Town Toyota Center, Wenatchee), plus we know you want to add Alaska trips to that, and this adds up to a quite tall order.

 

[Captain Crash]

Perhaps it's time for a 2023-24 thread? The NAHL with another expansion announcement ad they look to add some Grit for next season:

NAHL team in Greeley, Colorado approved for the 2023-24 season

Growth of the NAHL and opportunity continues with the first NAHL team to call Colorado home as the Colorado Grit take to the ice next season.

nahl.com

 

[JMCx4]

NAHL team in Greeley, Colorado approved for the 2023-24 season

Growth of the NAHL and opportunity continues with the first NAHL team to call Colorado home as the Colorado Grit take to the ice next season.

nahl.com

"The Greeley Ice Haus lends itself well to house a NAHL team with 1,200+ seat capacity, boxes ..."

Sounds more like it lends itself well to Disney on Ice Lite.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Perhaps it's time for a 2023-24 thread? The NAHL with another expansion announcement ad they look to add some Grit for next season:

NAHL team in Greeley, Colorado approved for the 2023-24 season

Growth of the NAHL and opportunity continues with the first NAHL team to call Colorado home as the Colorado Grit take to the ice next season.

nahl.com

I do need to start another thread. The EHL announced 3 teams and I didn't even put it up here.