Speculation: 2021 Sharks Offseason Roster Discussion

[Herschel]

Apparently all the Eichel fans here haven't watched any of the playoffs where top-heavy teams like Edmonton, Toronto, Colorado, Washington are all getting or were exposed for having no depth.

Colorado is top three in the league in forward depth along with Tampa and Vegas.
Toronto, and Colorado for that matter, both played without their 2C... that will test just about any team's depth

 

[TheBeard]

Colorado is top three in the league in forward depth along with Tampa and Vegas.
Toronto, and Colorado for that matter, both played without their 2C... that will test just about any team's depth

Colorado lost Kadri and they're cooked. Relying on Jost and Saad to be your secondary options isn't ideal. Burakovsy is a trainwreck 75% of the time and guys like Donkey are just 4th liners. Vegas shuts down Nate and Colorado has managed 8 goals in 4+ games. Fleury deserves credit but let's be honest, outside of 2 periods yesterday Avs are being dominated by a much deeper team.

 

[TheBeard]

If you have no top, you have no depth to begin with. Sharks have no real top to go with no real depth. That's why they suck.

That makes no sense, especially when the plan for many here is to give up multiple pieces for one.

 

[magic school bus]

Apparently all the Eichel fans here haven't watched any of the playoffs where top-heavy teams like Edmonton, Toronto, Colorado, Washington are all getting or were exposed for having no depth.

Vegas, Colorado, Boston, Tampa, Montreal and New York are the teams left. Out of the teams left we have a better 1st line than Montreal. That's it.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Colorado lost Kadri and they're cooked. Relying on Jost and Saad to be your secondary options isn't ideal. Burakovsy is a trainwreck 75% of the time and guys like Donkey are just 4th liners. Vegas shuts down Nate and Colorado has managed 8 goals in 4+ games. Fleury deserves credit but let's be honest, outside of 2 periods yesterday Avs are being dominated by a much deeper team.

Vegas is not deeper than Colorado (Chandler Stephenson is their #1C), but their system and commitment to that system is second to none. PDB has always been good at mid-series adjustments, and their forwards are incredibly defensively responsible. They're just outworking them, plain and simple.

 

[TheBeard]

Vegas, Colorado, Boston, Tampa, Montreal and New York are the teams left. Out of the teams left we have a better 1st line than Montreal. That's it.

Well, sure when you're comparing to, like, the Perfection line and a line featuring MacKinnon then yeah. But all of those teams are also considerably deeper. (Also, our first is better than Isles. Barzal gets way too much love for someone who led the league in non-roughing minor penalties).

 

[TheBeard]

Vegas is not deeper than Colorado (Chandler Stephenson is their #1C), but their system and commitment to that system is second to none. PDB has always been good at mid-series adjustments, and their forwards are incredibly defensively responsible. They're just outworking them, plain and simple.

Absolutely they're outplaying them, but aside from center they're getting major contributions from all 4 lines. When you're plugging Tuch and Janmark onto your third you've got options.

 

[Herschel]

Colorado lost Kadri and they're cooked. Relying on Jost and Saad to be your secondary options isn't ideal. Burakovsy is a trainwreck 75% of the time and guys like Donkey are just 4th liners. Vegas shuts down Nate and Colorado has managed 8 goals in 4+ games. Fleury deserves credit but let's be honest, outside of 2 periods yesterday Avs are being dominated by a much deeper team.

- Stephenson is not even close to being a true top-line centre
- Saad has more goals than any of the VGK despite playing 3 less games but isn't a good secondary scoring option

Colorado has the deeper forward group but prefers to load up the top line whereas Vegas runs balanced lines. A big adjustment in the last game, where the Avs were the better team in a very close game, was Bednar balancing out the lines.

How would Vegas look if Karlsson was out of the series? They would either need to move Roy up to 2C where he would be massively outmatched or move Tuch up into the top 6 and basically become a two-line team.

 

[Herschel]

- Stephenson is not even close to being a true top-line centre
- Saad has more goals than any of the VGK despite playing 3 less games but isn't a good secondary scoring option

Colorado has the deeper forward group but prefers to load up the top line whereas Vegas runs balanced lines. A big adjustment in the last game, where the Avs were the better team in a very close game, was Bednar balancing out the lines.

How would Vegas look if Karlsson was out of the series? They would either need to move Roy up to 2C where he would be massively outmatched or move Tuch up into the top 6 and basically become a two-line team.

It is also a very similar situation with Toronto losing Tavares. Does anyone think Montreal wins that series if he plays? If not for a freak injury the Leafs are likely on the verge of knocking out the Jets.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That makes no sense, especially when the plan for many here is to give up multiple pieces for one.

Depth starts at the top and most proposals I have seen only involve one roster player. That's not really giving up depth.

 

[TheBeard]

Depth starts at the top and most proposals I have seen only involve one roster player. That's not really giving up depth.

I think when you're a rebuilding franchise, giving away top 6-9 forwards that should be ready in a couple of years isn't smart. Eventually we're going to need the ELC players to show something. Otherwise we're going to continue going to the Nieto Well.

 

[Herschel]

I think when you're a rebuilding franchise, giving away top 6-9 forwards that should be ready in a couple of years isn't smart. Eventually we're going to need the ELC players to show something. Otherwise we're going to continue going to the Nieto Well.

If you trade for Eichel you aren't rebuilding but I agree with the ELC comment.

 

[TheBeard]

Saad has more goals than any of the VGK despite playing 3 less games but isn't a good secondary scoring option

Expecting Saad to keep up this pace isn't ideal when you're getting nothing from your first line. He's always been a decent player, but has never gotten this lucky. Scoring on nearly 40% of your shots is a far cry from the 17% he hit on way back in 13-14.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think when you're a rebuilding franchise, giving away top 6-9 forwards that should be ready in a couple of years isn't smart. Eventually we're going to need the ELC players to show something. Otherwise we're going to continue going to the Nieto Well.

But they're not rebuilding so that doesn't apply here.

 

[TheBeard]

If you trade for Eichel you aren't rebuilding but I agree with the ELC comment.

You just see this too often from failing franchises. Name me the last elite name to be traded and win a cup with that team? in that kind of a grind, you need guys like Goude and Maroon, not a turnstile of Gabriel and Gambrell.

I like Barabanov, don't get me wrong. Same with Balcers. But some here have already penciled these guys in like they're going to become upper-tier top 6ers because of a small sample size. What happens if we trade for Jack and neither of those guys keep up the pace?

 

[TheBeard]

But they're not rebuilding so that doesn't apply here.

And that, IMO is the biggest problem and probably why i'm so irked about the Eichel potential trade (even if it's just a rumor).

 

[WSS11]

I agree. Reportedly the Kings don't want Eichel and Buffalo doesn't want to trade him to the Rangers so that leaves very few suitors left. Pretty similar situation to when Doug acquired Karlsson, Heatley, Boyle and Thornton in the past. 7th OV+22 1st+Meier+Bordeleau+Chmelevski probably gets it done.

What a terrible mistake that would be

 

[Pinkfloyd]

And that, IMO is the biggest problem and probably why i'm so irked about the Eichel potential trade (even if it's just a rumor).

Well yeah if the team said they were rebuilding then it'd be a lot easier to put aside Eichel speculation but it's right up DW's alley to make a move for him and the team has the hole in the top of their forward lineup that he'd fit. Even still, it's long odds and I'm sure draft day will show him go elsewhere but until then, it's an actual possibility.

 

[TheBeard]

Well yeah if the team said they were rebuilding then it'd be a lot easier to put aside Eichel speculation but it's right up DW's alley to make a move for him and the team has the hole in the top of their forward lineup that he'd fit. Even still, it's long odds and I'm sure draft day will show him go elsewhere but until then, it's an actual possibility.

I've just accepted this isn't our time now. Too many other good teams out there and we're not remotely in the same boat as them talent-wise with or without Eichel. The way Tampa is playing, Vegas, hell even the Bruins and Isles, I'd rather just let them have their moment, hopefully find a way to pawn off some pieces to desperate contenders and live to compete another day.

 

[Herschel]

Expecting Saad to keep up this pace isn't ideal when you're getting nothing from your first line. He's always been a decent player, but has never gotten this lucky. Scoring on nearly 40% of your shots is a far cry from the 17% he hit on way back in 13-14.

Sure, but Saad had 15 regular season goals which put him in the same range as Smith, Karlsson, and Stephenson who are all staples in Vegas' top 6 so I am not sure how you can use him as a critique of the Avs lack of depth.

I will say again, Vegas would be in real trouble in this series if Kadri was playing and Karlsson was out.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I agree. Reportedly the Kings don't want Eichel and Buffalo doesn't want to trade him to the Rangers so that leaves very few suitors left. Pretty similar situation to when Doug acquired Karlsson, Heatley, Boyle and Thornton in the past. 7th OV+22 1st+Meier+Bordeleau+Chmelevski probably gets it done.

Yeah, let’s trade every single valuable asset we have and completely gut our future. Sounds great!

 

[Herschel]

I've just accepted this isn't our time now. Too many other good teams out there and we're not remotely in the same boat as them talent-wise with or without Eichel. The way Tampa is playing, Vegas, hell even the Bruins and Isles, I'd rather just let them have their moment, hopefully find a way to pawn off some pieces to desperate contenders and live to compete another day.

The issue I have is that there are just as many really bad teams to compete with at the bottom. To guarantee a top-end draft pick you need to finish bottom TWO in either of the next two seasons. If you don't do that there is a very high chance no one you draft will be as good as Eichel.

 

[Pavelski2112]

The issue I have is that there are just as many really bad teams to compete with at the bottom. To guarantee a top-end draft pick you need to finish bottom TWO in either of the next two seasons. If you don't do that there is a very high chance no one you draft will be as good as Eichel.

But Eichel is already making his money, which is a problem. The thing about your own high draft picks is that they'll at least have 3 years for their ELCs, and potentially a good bridge contract. There's room to work with, with regards to cap. This team already has too many big, long-term contracts that they can't get rid of, so they need cheap young talent to fill the gap if they want to compete any time soon.

 

[TheBeard]

Sure, but Saad had 15 regular season goals which put him in the same range as Smith, Karlsson, and Stephenson who are all staples in Vegas' top 6 so I am not sure how you can use him as a critique of the Avs lack of depth.

I will say again, Vegas would be in real trouble in this series if Kadri was playing and Karlsson was out.

I think the biggest difference is the forward usage. On Vegas, no Forward averages over 19:04 (Stone) but 8 average over 17 (including Janmark) whereas on Colorado's top line is all over 20 a game and only 5 over 15.

 

[TheBeard]

The issue I have is that there are just as many really bad teams to compete with at the bottom. To guarantee a top-end draft pick you need to finish bottom TWO in either of the next two seasons. If you don't do that there is a very high chance no one you draft will be as good as Eichel.

Obviously, the caliber of a player like Eichel doesn't come around too often, but while he fills a need, I think it's in the team's best interest to let another team boom or bust with him. He doesn't make us immediate contenders so while he'll make us a more enjoyable team to watch, it doesn't really get us that much closer short term and it definitely doesn't long term.

Can you at least agree that we're closer to the bottom rung than we are the top?