Speculation: 2021 Sharks Offseason Roster Discussion part V

[tealzamboni]

I get where you're coming from, I just think it's premature to be speculating about termination penalties and roster replacements when the league hasn't established wrongdoing yet. Where we part is that I think it really *does* matter where the rumors of termination come from. If it's a story from a guy who read the retweet of the guy who heard from a teammate that they saw Kane at 31 Flavors, that's hardly even a rumor; it's gossip.

Kane doesn't come across as a particularly good guy in any of this, and if he broke the rules, I wouldn't be bothered by his termination. If the team decides to trade him, fine by me. But the whole frenzy about it feels sketchy to me, like it's about his reputed character more than any specific actions. There seem to be a whole lot of people who are super eager to say "I TOLD YOU HE WAS NO GOOD," and that makes me uncomfortable.

IMO the uneasiness is justified.

Tweet drama -----> outrage = libelous talk -----> shut it down
News articles of rumors of locker room drama -----> previous outrage confirmed = libelous no more -----> have at it

Additionally, the Sharks have known about gambling for 1.5 years (Cosmo issue), have known about Kane's locker room life (and likely personal matters) for over 2 years, and have known about this bankruptcy case for at least a year. So, if the Sharks are pulling a Guerin-gets-rid-of-locker-room-problems-Parise-and-Suter, then would it have made more sense to buy out Kane in the first window? And possibly even avoid the Jones buyout and Hill trade? Surely, one tweet would not have been the tipping point unless they were completely oblivious - which the exit interview rumors would say they were not.

Whether the contract is terminated or not, it does seem like it will impact his case. A messy divorce could cut into what the creditors get. And rumors of locker room ultimatums and an article that speculates termination options would also influence the payments to creditors. Juicy details to the creditors, but apparently all hearsay and not on the record yet (I suppose they could ask for exit interview notes, but the contract termination rumor is probably more concerning to creditors).

 

[STL Shark]

Things are never as good or bad as they seem. Some of the overall takes and dot connecting going on the past day or so are a bit preposterous. Let things play out before we get to the there is no leadership, Boughner is lameduck (where the hell does that one come from, I have no clue), DW is facilitating a culture that sucks, etc. stuff. There is plenty to unpack in the coming days/weeks, but some of this stuff is just super outlandish and half baked twisting to try and fit some of your preconceived notions/thoughts on certain people in the organization (i.e. confirmation bias).

 

[landshark]

Assuming Kane's contract is terminated/bought out/whatever, what does the roster even look like next season?

Meier-Hertl-Barabanov
Balcers-Couture-Labanc
Leonard-Bonino-Cogliano?
Gregor/Nieto-Gambrell-Merkley

Jesus Christ

We got that guy in net now? Rumor has it "he saves."

EDIT: late to the Jesus party as usual...

 

[SharksAddict]

If Kane is done, I'd like to think DW will add another top 6 guy. They have a decent chunk of cap space as it is, and would potentially have significantly more depending on what happens with Kane.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

If Kane is done, I'd like to think DW will add another top 6 guy. They have a decent chunk of cap space as it is, and would potentially have significantly more depending on what happens with Kane.

Tatar makes the most sense and he wouldn't even cost that much. If we sign him to a one year deal and give him Kane's minutes we might be able to get a first for him at the deadline...he's very talented.

 

[STL Shark]

Tatar makes the most sense and he wouldn't even cost that much. If we sign him to a one year deal and give him Kane's minutes we might be able to get a first for him at the deadline...he's very talented.

Yeah, I would love to trade for Dvorak and sign Tatar to a 1 year deal if he's gone. Can't do multiple years on Tatar if you trade for Dvorak though as the Hertl, Ferraro, and Knyzhov re-signings are going to be costly and I'd like to think someone of the group of Eklund, Bordeleau, Wiesblatt, and Dahlen are going to be ready for a top 6 winger spot if they have a quality center by 2022.

 

[Lebanezer]

Yeah, I would love to trade for Dvorak and sign Tatar to a 1 year deal if he's gone. Can't do multiple years on Tatar if you trade for Dvorak though as the Hertl, Ferraro, and Knyzhov re-signings are going to be costly and I'd like to think someone of the group of Eklund, Bordeleau, Wiesblatt, and Dahlen are going to be ready for a top 6 winger spot if they have a quality center by 2022.

I don't think Knyzhov is going to cost that much. He was a nice surprise last year, but he needs to grow a lot more if he's going to be more than a 3rd pair LD. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if he gets passed on the depth chart quickly by Hatakka and Kniazev.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

What do you guys think is the projected contract for Ferraro if he stays on his current projection with no more leap/struggle? 3x3?

 

[Lebanezer]

What do you guys think is the projected contract for Ferraro if he stays on his current projection with no more leap/struggle? 3x3?

He's value right now is only on the defensive side of the puck, so he won't cost a lot. His intangibles and effort level will certainly give him a bump, but I don't expect him to get a high salary. If he manages to add decent offense to his game that would be very helpful, his utility with Burns or Karlsson diminishes if offensive plays die on his stick, or they can't breakout or rush the puck up the ice.

 

[LadyStanley]

Tatar makes the most sense and he wouldn't even cost that much. If we sign him to a one year deal and give him Kane's minutes we might be able to get a first for him at the deadline...he's very talented.

Nope, nope, nope! Do not want Tatar. He fell apart when traded to VGK; and disappeared a lot in Montreal.

 

[STL Shark]

Nope, nope, nope! Do not want Tatar. He fell apart when traded to VGK; and disappeared a lot in Montreal.

If disappearing a lot is a 62 point per 82 pace since joining MTL while playing mostly with an offensively inept center in Danault and doing that in only 16 mins of ice time per night, then I would like everyone on our roster to disappear more often. Dude has been one of the top play drivers in all of hockey over the past 3 seasons to go along with those counting stats as well. Would be about the perfect linemate for Hertl (without even considering the Czech angle).

 

[STL Shark]

I don't think Knyzhov is going to cost that much. He was a nice surprise last year, but he needs to grow a lot more if he's going to be more than a 3rd pair LD. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if he gets passed on the depth chart quickly by Hatakka and Kniazev.

I think he with another season like this one (or slight improvement) that he will still come in around $1.5-$2 million or so which is close to 3x what he makes now. Ferraro will probably get close to $4 million and Hertl $7 million. So add those deals along with Dvorak (in this hypothetical) and $4 million still for Tatar to go along with no Kane/Simek/Gambrell and that leaves you with ~$1.5 million in cap space and a roster with only 9 forwards, 6 D-Men, and 2 goalies.

If you dip into the Dvorak bucket (which I would like them to do) any other move would have to be a 1 year deal for a guy like Tatar or Palmieri not only for cap purposes, but because I would hope that there is a wave of youngsters coming behind them ready to challenge for a scoring role.

 

[Nolan11]

What do you guys think is the projected contract for Ferraro if he stays on his current projection with no more leap/struggle? 3x3?

Ferraro likely 3 M for 2 years bridge. That should get him (mostly) out of flat-cap and still be young enough for an 8 year show-me-the-money extension.

 

[spintops]

And what happens if he continues to refuse help and break team rules as he apparently did all of last season? What if that creates an even more toxic atmosphere in the locker room just as you're about to bring players like Eklund and Bordeleau, who we all hope are the future of this team, into the fold?

If the NHL investigation clears Kane the cleanest solution is to waive him, let him collect his salary at home this season (don't need the cap space anyway) like the Rangers did with DeAngelo then buy him out next summer.

Lmao. I can see the problems Kane creates, but creating 8 years of dead cap space by cutting our most productive player after he was cleared? Yeah, I would finally stop following this silly franchise because DW really is lost.

 

[Friday]

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Lmao. I can see the problems Kane creates, but creating 8 years of dead cap space by cutting our most productive player after he was cleared? Yeah, I would finally stop following this silly franchise because DW really is lost.

Being cleared of gambling on the NHL isn't the only problem for the team as it relates to Kane.

 

[spintops]

Being cleared of gambling on the NHL isn't the only problem for the team as it relates to Kane.

Yes, but I wouldn't buy him out because some underperforming teammates don't like him. I mean outside of like Hertl, does anyone have any room to talk? Get a coach that can do his job, the rest of the team should worry about their own production.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yes, but I wouldn't buy him out because some underperforming teammates don't like him. I mean outside of like Hertl, does anyone have any room to talk? Get a coach that can do his job, the rest of the team should worry about their own production.

Liking him or not is one thing. Him being late for meetings and practices is another when they're letting him get away with it.

 

[spintops]

Liking him or not is one thing. Him being late for meetings and practices is another when they're letting him get away with it.

Hence the coach should try being a coach. He shouldn't have to play baby sitter, but he also has to do what's needed to control the team. Did Kane get benched a single time?

Clearly I'm bitter at the rest of the team for how bad they played, so I have a hard time being sympathetic for them having issues with Kane. I'm fine if the team is trading him for pennies, but buying him out with 8 years of dead cap? No freaking way

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hence the coach should try being a coach. He shouldn't have to play baby sitter, but he also has to do what's needed to control the team. Did Kane get benched a single time?

Clearly I'm bitter at the rest of the team for how bad they played, so I have a hard time being sympathetic for them having issues with Kane. I'm fine if the team is trading him for pennies, but buying him out with 8 years of dead cap? No freaking way

This isn't an either/or thing. Being late and breaking team rules is not acceptable by any means. Him being let off the hook doesn't change that keeping him means he's accountable to no one. DW and Boughner both need to go as Kane does as well because he's a detriment to the team when it's shown that there are rules for everyone else and not for him. For the coach and the manager to have any credibility with the players moving forward, Kane has to go by any means.

 

[spintops]

This isn't an either/or thing. Being late and breaking team rules is not acceptable by any means. Him being let off the hook doesn't change that keeping him means he's accountable to no one. DW and Boughner both need to go as Kane does as well because he's a detriment to the team when it's shown that there are rules for everyone else and not for him. For the coach and the manager to have any credibility with the players moving forward, Kane has to go by any means.

Agree to disagree. I'm more into progressive discipline and actually addressing the issue before I hurt the franchise to make a point to him, when he's basically the only party not hurt by a buy out.

Kick him off the team and way for a opportunity to terminate the contract. How long is this rebuild going to last? Let's buy out EK65 next since he's a negative on the ice.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Agree to disagree. I'm more into progressive discipline and actually addressing the issue before I hurt the franchise to make a point to him, when he's basically the only party not hurt by a buy out.

Kick him off the team and way for a opportunity to terminate the contract. How long is this rebuild going to last? Let's buy out EK65 next since he's a negative on the ice.

You're not making a point to him. That's where you're mistaken. You're making a point to the players you have that you will be held accountable to the team. You don't get rid of Kane, you're just not serious about team building, accountability, and rules in general.

 

[spintops]

You're not making a point to him. That's where you're mistaken. You're making a point to the players you have that you will be held accountable to the team. You don't get rid of Kane, you're just not serious about team building, accountability, and rules in general.

Benching him doesn't make a point to him or the players ? It worked when he was taking too many penalties. And you would hope guys wouldn't want the same punishment, aka being held accountable

 

[one2gamble]

This isn't an either/or thing. Being late and breaking team rules is not acceptable by any means. Him being let off the hook doesn't change that keeping him means he's accountable to no one. DW and Boughner both need to go as Kane does as well because he's a detriment to the team when it's shown that there are rules for everyone else and not for him. For the coach and the manager to have any credibility with the players moving forward, Kane has to go by any means.

I dont think he has to go because of that, that blame is squarely on BB. If anything, if he shows up this year because hes "innocent" he should be held to a very high standard, ie, you are late, you act out, you dont play. Dress, skate around and then go sit in the locker room

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Benching him doesn't make a point to him or the players ? It worked when he was taking too many penalties. And you would hope guys wouldn't want the same punishment, aka being held accountable

Yeah but there are different levels for different offenses and they completely vacated their responsibilities in disciplining Kane for team function stuff that tarnishes their credibility as a front office greatly. The only way for the current front office to save face in that regard is to move the player.