Patriots/NFL 2021 Season Part III: 2-4 - Week 7 vs. NY Jets

[LSCII]

Annoying that the Pats and Bruins both have home games at 1pm tomorrow

Yeah, but only one of the games will be enjoyable to watch, so it makes your choice easy...

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

Yeah, but only one of the games will be enjoyable to watch, so it makes your choice easy...

Lol very true sir.

 

[Barnum]

Man OBJ kinda sucks now, just got hurt again.

If I had to pick one of the most overrated WRs in recent memory, it would be OJB in second after Keyshawn Johnson.

 

[Barnum]

Belichick should retire now while there are still some people out there that think those Super Bowl wins weren't 90% Brady, 10% Bill.

Straight up…a garbage post and someone that didn’t watch those first 3 SB wins. Anyone ever trying to tell me Brady won those first 3 SBs on his own, is too young or doesn’t understand football. In fact, this comment is an insult to those amazing defenses and players from that era. Give the credit to Seymour/Law/Malloy/Bruchsi and to a lesser degree guys like Hamilton, Vrabel, Johnson and my main man Otis Smith who controlled that entire game. Brady was lucky and baldly outplayed by Warner.

Sad..people do not remember how stout and great those defenses were in the early dynasty years and that was 100% the brainchild of The Belly. Brady has at least 2 undeserved SB MVPs. Tommy had no business winning it in 2001 and he should have gone to Ty Law or Adam V..

Brady winning his 2nd MVP in 2004 is also suspect. That year the Patriots defense yielded the least points and had mostly the same team as mentioned above. Defense won those first 3 , not Tommy Brady. It wasn’t until Randy Moss showed and Brady matured where we saw his arm and unmatched talent.

 

[EverettMike]

He did. It was well documented that Brady played through that exact injury not once, but twice during his time here. Jimmy G is a fragile little kitty cat.

In fairness to him, there is a very, very reasonable defense of Jimmy G: he had no future with the Patriots and was protecting himself to make sure he not only got a chance to start somewhere, but to make some real money during the very limited time someone has to get paid to play in the NFL.

I don't really fault him. Doesn't mean you can't questions is competitiveness. Agreeing with his decision to look out for himself, his career, and his future does not mean I am letting him off the hook for sitting out. We all have to make decisions based on what we value. And he valued his career more than winning a game.

 

[LSCII]

Straight up…a garbage post and someone that didn’t watch those first 3 SB wins. Anyone ever trying to tell me Brady won those first 3 SBs on his own, is too young or doesn’t understand football. In fact, this comment is an insult to those amazing defenses and players from that era. Give the credit to Seymour/Law/Malloy/Bruchsi and to a lesser degree guys like Hamilton, Vrabel, Johnson and my main man Otis Smith who controlled that entire game. Brady was lucky and baldly outplayed by Warner.

Sad..people do not remember how stout and great those defenses were in the early dynasty years and that was 100% the brainchild of The Belly. Brady has at least 2 undeserved SB MVPs. Tommy had no business winning it in 2001 and he should have gone to Ty Law or Adam V..

Brady winning his 2nd MVP in 2004 is also suspect. That year the Patriots defense yielded the least points and had mostly the same team as mentioned above. Defense won those first 3 , not Tommy Brady. It wasn’t until Randy Moss showed and Brady matured where we saw his arm and unmatched talent.

How long ago were those first three wins though? As fair as it is to give him credit for that (and really, Parcells for the core of that f***ing nastyu ass defense too), he's blown a recent Super Bowl with his stubborn bullshit of not playing Butler because of a squabble with his son and Patricia. So if you want to give him credit for shit he did 17-20 years ago, you need to also give him blame for that loss to Philly, no?

 

[EverettMike]

How long ago were those first three wins though? As fair as it is to give him credit for that (and really, Parcells for the core of that f***ing nastyu ass defense too), he's blown a recent Super Bowl with his stubborn bullshit of not playing Butler because of a squabble with his son and Patricia. So if you want to give him credit for shit he did 17-20 years ago, you need to also give him blame for that loss to Philly, no?

Why does Parcells get credit for that defensive core when he didn't draft any of them? The whole reason he left was that he wasn't getting to pick the groceries.

 

[LSCII]

In fairness to him, there is a very, very reasonable defense of Jimmy G: he had no future with the Patriots and was protecting himself to make sure he not only got a chance to start somewhere, but to make some real money during the very limited time someone has to get paid to play in the NFL.

I don't really fault him. Doesn't mean you can't questions is competitiveness. Agreeing with his decision to look out for himself, his career, and his future does not mean I am letting him off the hook for sitting out. We all have to make decisions based on what we value. And he valued his career more than winning a game.

I don't blame him for doing what was best for him. I'm simply agreeing with your statement that there were folks inside the organization that were unhappy with his decision to not play. Especially when Jacoby Brisset played the last week before Brady came off of suspension with a torn ligament in his throwing hand. Aside from Jimmy G doing what's best for himself, he's still missed significant time pretty much every season he's attempted to play in this league to this point. He's just fragile. It's his track record.

 

[LSCII]

Why does Parcells get credit for that defensive core when he didn't draft any of them? The whole reason he left was that he wasn't getting to pick the groceries.

He had input and developed the players before Belichick got here. What he wanted was full control, and to not have a GM that could overrule him, which is why he left.

 

[The National]

Fair to say Bill deserves majority of the credit for the last SB against the Rams? Keeping that offense to 3 points when it was tearing it up all year.

 

[Barnum]

How long ago were those first three wins though? As fair as it is to give him credit for that (and really, Parcells for the core of that f***ing nastyu ass defense too), he's blown a recent Super Bowl with his stubborn bullshit of not playing Butler because of a squabble with his son and Patricia. So if you want to give him credit for shit he did 17-20 years ago, you need to also give him blame for that loss to Philly, no?

You are gaslighting me here …. I addressed the first 3, not the recent 3.

I defended the Belly for the first 3 and the derpy comment that Tommy won all 6 by himself and that’s just not true. Tommy was average at best in the first 8 years and then he turned into Superman.

 

[Barnum]

Fair to say Bill deserves majority of the credit for the last SB against the Rams? Keeping that offense to 3 points when it was tearing it up all year.

He deserves the credit for putting together those defenses in the early years and those first 3.

I think in a way because the NFL has become so pass oriented, The Belly has lost a step in how the NFL now works, he has become outdated. But never ever slight him for those first 3 wins, Tommy did not win those game, the defense did.

 

[EverettMike]

He had input and developed the players before Belichick got here. What he wanted was full control, and to not have a GM that could overrule him, which is why he left.

That draft he didn't have control over was actually awesome, right? And definitely better than what he wanted.

Also, since I love this Belichick game we play, I'll point out that under Parcells those defensive players didn't excel and make the Super Bowl until they got a new defensive coordinator. Guess who that was.

Parcells won nothing without Belichick. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

Belichick won with Matt Patricia. Twice.

 

[McGarnagle]

I can't remember ever being less excited for a Patriots football game (not counting the post-clinch meaningless week 17 matchups of days gone by).

It just feels like there's no stakes to it anymore. If we win, it's just the Jets, no one's going to get excited going to 3-4. Not going to root against them but honestly if they lost I don't think I'd even be upset because then we can give up on trying to force this season to .500 and secure a better draft pick.

 

[08SeaBass08]

What still baffles me is that anyone feels the need to take a side or can't just accept facts for what they are and that as @EverettMike said above, we play this Belichick game.

Fact - defense was the primary reason they won after Bledsoe went down.
Also fact - Brady played well enough and didn't make many mistakes and was clearly a deeply cerebral QB who won over the locker room and coaches when they won eight straight.

Fact - defense was the focal point for all Belichick teams and the Patriots offense was good, but not great until Corey Dillon came to town.
Also fact - having more options allowed Brady to evolve into the GOAT, which I believe he truly is.

Fact - they lost a Super Bowl after going 16-0, because their regular season record-setting offense couldn't score against an excellent defense.
Also fact - Brady, Moss and co. were dominant that year. Getting those two together might end up being GM Hoodie's master stroke when all is said and done.

Fact - GM/coach Hoodie put together rosters good enough to make eight straight conference championships and win three more SBs, including the last, where the offense didn't do much of anything and defense won the game.
Also fact - GM Hoodie benefited greatly by having Brady willing to play (relatively - it's not like he made the league minimum) on the cheap and made some very questionable, at best, decisions with the allocation of those additional resources and draft choices. For every Gronk, there's a Ras-I Dowling.

Fact - Coach Hoodie took a team with Matt Cassel to an 11-5 record, which unfathomably still wasn't good enough to make the playoffs. It did get Cassel a monster contract in KC, and somewhat similarly, Jimmy G was able to cash in years later with SF.
Also fact - Brady went to one of only a handful of options for him, albeit a largely stacked team who also went and got him Antonio Brown, and won the Super Bowl in his first year.

I mean, these are just five examples out of hundreds, really.

I've had Pats season tix since 1996. If you told me then what was going to happen over the next 25 years, I would have said you had the most vivid imagination in human history. What TB and BB did together will, likely, never be matched. Since the split, which I didn't and don't like, TB has clearly had the upper hand and I'm deeply troubled by a bunch of BB's recent roster decisions. But I'm ok with that because of what I got to experience first-hand - I/we have been f***ing spoiled.

I knew when Brady left we'd be in for some mediocrity, and clearly BB is a stubborn ox who can't get out of his own way sometimes, but it's still too early to see if the game has really passed him by and while also still too early to say for certain, I do like what we've got in MJ10.

Side note(s): Maybe my longest post ever, but @DKH mentioned AOF in a different thread and perhaps I was subliminally influenced. I know he wouldn't have been reading the Pats thread, but he (and Peter) are really missed around here.

 

[DKH]

What still baffles me is that anyone feels the need to take a side or can't just accept facts for what they are and that as @EverettMike said above, we play this Belichick game.

Fact - defense was the primary reason they won after Bledsoe went down.
Also fact - Brady played well enough and didn't make many mistakes and was clearly a deeply cerebral QB who won over the locker room and coaches when they won eight straight.

Fact - defense was the focal point for all Belichick teams and the Patriots offense was good, but not great until Corey Dillon came to town.
Also fact - having more options allowed Brady to evolve into the GOAT, which I believe he truly is.

Fact - they lost a Super Bowl after going 16-0, because their regular season record-setting offense couldn't score against an excellent defense.
Also fact - Brady, Moss and co. were dominant that year. Getting those two together might end up being GM Hoodie's master stroke when all is said and done.

Fact - GM/coach Hoodie put together rosters good enough to make eight straight conference championships and win three more SBs, including the last, where the offense didn't do much of anything and defense won the game.
Also fact - GM Hoodie benefited greatly by having Brady willing to play (relatively - it's not like he made the league minimum) on the cheap and made some very questionable, at best, decisions with the allocation of those additional resources and draft choices. For every Gronk, there's a Ras-I Dowling.

Fact - Coach Hoodie took a team with Matt Cassel to an 11-5 record, which unfathomably still wasn't good enough to make the playoffs. It did get Cassel a monster contract in KC, and somewhat similarly, Jimmy G was able to cash in years later with SF.
Also fact - Brady went to one of only a handful of options for him, albeit a largely stacked team who also went and got him Antonio Brown, and won the Super Bowl in his first year.

I mean, these are just five examples out of hundreds, really.

I've had Pats season tix since 1996. If you told me then what was going to happen over the next 25 years, I would have said you had the most vivid imagination in human history. What TB and BB did together will, likely, never be matched. Since the split, which I didn't and don't like, TB has clearly had the upper hand and I'm deeply troubled by a bunch of BB's recent roster decisions. But I'm ok with that because of what I got to experience first-hand - I/we have been f***ing spoiled.

I knew when Brady left we'd be in for some mediocrity, and clearly BB is a stubborn ox who can't get out of his own way sometimes, but it's still too early to see if the game has really passed him by and while also still too early to say for certain, I do like what we've got in MJ10.

Side note(s): Maybe my longest post ever, but @DKH mentioned AOF in a different thread and perhaps I was subliminally influenced. I know he wouldn't have been reading the Pats thread, but he (and Peter) are really missed around here.

Great post

To me it’s his stubbornness not his mind right now

they are a bit of good fortune and a shutdown corner away from 5-1

The Saints beat the crap out of them but the Dolphins especially and Tampa & Dallas it was there for the taking

my concern is has he surrounded himself with himself and the ruling by fear with his running back timeout crap the Gilmore situation and of course Butler

to me Mike Sullivan is a great coach and a great man who gives respect, love, and hope to his players and it is reciprocated

Butler said he was ready to play and was dressed and we now know if we are to believe Wickersham it was a confrontation with Patricia

He’s changed with the times on the field I’m not sure his personal constitution has

 

[KrejciMVP]

Bill should of rode off into the sunset with Brady, and enjoyed the rest of his football career at the top. now this misery is his new reality

 

[LSCII]

That draft he didn't have control over was actually awesome, right? And definitely better than what he wanted.

Also, since I love this Belichick game we play, I'll point out that under Parcells those defensive players didn't excel and make the Super Bowl until they got a new defensive coordinator. Guess who that was.

Parcells won nothing without Belichick. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

Belichick won with Matt Patricia. Twice.

It's always amusing to me when Belichick fans point out how Parcells won zero without BB, but flip out when you point out that Belichick himself has won shit without Brady...

 

[Barnum]

It's always amusing to me when Belichick fans point out how Parcells won zero without BB, but flip out when you point out that Belichick himself has won shit without Brady...

Imagine thinking, the game of football never mind an entire season is won by a single person.

These conversations would not exist if the 49ers pulled the trigger on Brady instead of Tommy going to a fully stacked WR corp in TB. Nevermind, Gronk coming out of retirement and all around dirt ball Antonio Brown heading there.

 

[KrejciMVP]

It's always amusing to me when Belichick fans point out how Parcells won zero without BB, but flip out when you point out that Belichick himself has won shit without Brady...

besides a few loyal hold out pockets in NE i think the Brady Bill debate is pretty much done after last year. Bill has complete control over the Pats and it only took Brady leaving to crumble

 

[CDJ]

lol holy shit how do you guys not get tired of this sports radio hack argument?


Edit: same arguments by the same posters every single week. I think we get it guys, we know where everybody stands lol

 

[Johnnyduke]

Unfortunately the Jets and Texans are not on the schedule going forward

Have to beat actual football teams now

 

[DangleCity]

Unfortunately the Jets and Texans are not on the schedule going forward

Have to beat actual football teams now

They've been right there, a play away against the good teams they played, so I have optimism they will come through

 

[DangleCity]

lol holy shit how do you guys not get tired of this sports radio hack argument?


Edit: same arguments by the same posters every single week. I think we get it guys, we know where everybody stands lol

B3llY sUcKs, T0m rUL3zzz!!!!!1

 

[Therick67]

They've been right there, a play away against the good teams they played, so I have optimism they will come through

optimism isn’t allowed, you have to be a miserable @#$% to follow this team now...